pokerplayingpisces
Full House
Just go with the slide in cup holders. Much more practical. They’re in the right position, when needed. And if some one doesn’t have a drink, they have more space.
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Asymmetrical Poker Seating -- Would it Tilt You? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter justsomedude
- Start date
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justsomedude
Straight Flush
Just go with the slide in cup holders. Much more practical. They’re in the right position, when needed. And if some one doesn’t have a drink, they have more space.
Yea yea yea... I know. I just like over-complicating things in my brain.
Frogzilla
Straight Flush
I 've never came across slide-under cupholders in my life, but I wonder how it can be practical to have tall obstacles standing in the playing surface (regardless of people being free to move them) , when many people here already advocate that to have cupholders absorbed into the playing surface or racetrack (in which case, whisky glasses hardly reach the height of the rail) is wrong; I 'm sure the latter is wrong if players are supposed to also deal, ie in the abscence of dedicated dealer position.
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justsomedude
Straight Flush
It's an imperfect solution.
The die hards will tell you "no drinks / cups" at the tables... use a side-table! A slide-under cupholder is the compromise that hosts have made to allow drinks on the table for those who just *have* to have them there.
Also, slide-unders provide the option of no cup-holder. This is not feasible with a built-in cupholder in the playing surface or racetrack.
Don't want a drink? No slide-under nonsense needed. Felt/rail perfection all to your heart's content!
Jordan Downs
3 of a Kind
Lol never thought of this but yes I would tilt me. I’d still play but the cup holders not being aligned across the table would definitely tilt me. Just another one of my many quirks I rarely share 
Although built-in cupholders are a nice fetish, probably the most luxurious solution are the side tables, provided there 's enough room space and decreased chances of the tables (and glasses) being knocked over.
Of course, a topic not touched upon here is what kind of "cups" we 're talking about. Tall glasses, let alone bottles, or even cans, allowing liquids and all
to drip from people's chins, shouldn't belong to the table anyway IMO.I only allow short-and-wide, old fashioned whisky glasses for any drink (including milk and cough syrup
) in my game and these are pretty safe in the (jumbo) cupholders.
JRReynolds6181
Two Pair
I would check your local town/city codes to make sure this is even legal.
Jake14mw
Flush
It seems that slide out or swing out cupholders are the least popular option here. Why is that? I prefer this option because it keeps drinks off the table. I also have a side cart, but more people use the swingouts. Swingouts have their issues too though, mainly that they are fixed in one spot. I just ordered a smaller side cart to experiment with.
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justsomedude
Straight Flush
My guess... perimeter real estate at a poker table is very valuable, and swingouts affect players in that one critical area: specifically, elbow room.
A slide-under cupholder can be moved (or not used at all). In-rail cup holders are usually directly in front of, or next to, a player (and often sit empty), whereas swing-outs are right at your waist/ribs. And if some one is using it, there's no way it's not interfering with the person next to you.
When a table is already tight with 9 or 10 people, more stuff around the perimeter impacts player comfort, and not in a good way. I think that's why carts/trays are usually slightly behind players, and not necessarily between them.
Again, this is just my guess when it comes to the swingouts.
Al Azouri
3 of a Kind
Problem solved!
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justsomedude
Straight Flush
Technically speaking, this design is symmetrical. It is mirrored across the horizontal axis...
OP
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justsomedude
Straight Flush
markleteenie
4 of a Kind
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justsomedude
Straight Flush
Yeah sorry I couldn't deal with that asymmetry. If I sat on the straight edge side with 2 others and looked across the way and only saw 2 over there, I’d be like wtf is going on here.
I beleive you have the room there in the studio for drink carts don’t you? Do it!!
I beleive you have the room there in the studio for drink carts don’t you? Do it!!
markleteenie
4 of a Kind
"Hey guys, what do you think about this new layout. Everyone else has an equal spacing of 24". Except, the space between the dealer and seat 1 is 28" and the space between seat 8 and the dealer only 20". Would that tilt you?"I just thought you meant that one cupholder.
You would.
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justsomedude
Straight Flush
"Hey guys, what do you think about this new layout. Everyone else has an equal spacing of 24". Except, the space between the dealer and seat 1 is 28" and the space between seat 8 and the dealer only 20". Would that tilt you?"
You would.
I think I might do this... and make you sit there. Just because.
markleteenie
4 of a Kind
Depending on the dealer, no problem.
But most likely, I can't make it: my car broke down and owes me rent, last minute emergency.
Beaniman
Two Pair
This made me giggle like a schoolgirl.
But seriously, why not racetrack so you dont need cup holders? Just a coster and you can slide it wherever you want?
#onamissiontomakeracetracksthenewnorm
Beaniman
Two Pair
Omg i looked at it an laughed again!
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justsomedude
Straight Flush
Not a fan of racetracks. Dealt with them for years because it’s what came with my old tables... glad to be moving on from them with my new builds.
Beaniman
Two Pair
I'm admittedly biased as every table I've built had a track layout. Never did feel like there was a cupholder placement that was suitable so just opted to skip it.
I agree, that layout is pretty dang nice! @justsomedude is that equal spacing between each cup holder? Keeps the dealer spot and has a "symmetric point", accommodates 9 players...are you on to something here?
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justsomedude
Straight Flush
Did some one pay you to ask me this just to drive me bonkers?
It's not equal spacing, as that's a very complicated matter when it comes to poker table seating... Equal spacing from the outer edge of the rail? Centerline of the rail? Or inner edge of the rail? Truly equal cupholder spacing along the centerline of the rail generally "squishes" players along the curved sections, which isn't fair for comfort or playable area.
The "problem" with oval tables is that it combines a square playing area with a circular playing area, and the players seated along the curve will always have less available playing area than the players seated along the straight edge due to basic geometry.
Insanely long story short (here's the thread if you want to read it), I ended up working out custom cupholder spacing based on trying to maximize playing area for each player along the circumference, and then by using subjective feel when physically placing the cupholders. I then mirrored the spacing I liked to the other half of the table.
My mental spaz-out/meltdown scale drawing on the subject is below. The dimensions shown along circumferences in the graphic below are outer and inner dimensions. Note how the blue players with 27.4" along the outer curve actually have less physical distance between cupholders inside the rail (19.9") for chips and resting their hands, when compared with yellow players along the straight edge (22"). Blue players will be "squished" the most, but should still have relatively comfortable spacing between adjacent players at the table. This was my compromise:
Still not done with this build yet.
EDIT: If you don't want to over-think it, just set your cupholders with equal-spacing dimensionally along the INSIDE EDGE of the rail. This will give everyone (somewhat) equal space at the felt-edge for chips/hands/etc. The actual cupholder spacing will be visually un-equal, but I think player comfort should be prioritized above visual aesthetic. It's the old form vs. function conundrum.
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Wow that original thread is even better than this one! Thanks for this cool concept work. I wasn't paid to bump this thread, just falling down a similar rabbit hole, but no, I didn't reach the bottom where you landed, LOL.
My one question is, you laid out those cup holders for people not sitting centered with the cup holder, right? If you had assumed that center position, which does seem to be the consensus at PCF, would you have laid the table out differently? Visualizing a player using those slots as center pieces this seems to work well also.
My space can't fit a large 8' table. My space can't fit drink carts. Slide-in cup holders could work, but due to squeezing the table size down a bit to fit the space, I don't think I want to give up "elbow room real estate" for "side-mounted" cup holders. I don't like the cup holders on the table (looks cluttered & would expect higher chance of spilling drinks on the playing surface). So in-rail cup holders are the best option for me. They also look pretty sleek.
Anyways...I feel like this 9 seater fits both, form and function! Does it look as symmetrical as a 10-seater? No. But that mirroring keeps it looking sane at least.
My one question is, you laid out those cup holders for people not sitting centered with the cup holder, right? If you had assumed that center position, which does seem to be the consensus at PCF, would you have laid the table out differently? Visualizing a player using those slots as center pieces this seems to work well also.
My space can't fit a large 8' table. My space can't fit drink carts. Slide-in cup holders could work, but due to squeezing the table size down a bit to fit the space, I don't think I want to give up "elbow room real estate" for "side-mounted" cup holders. I don't like the cup holders on the table (looks cluttered & would expect higher chance of spilling drinks on the playing surface). So in-rail cup holders are the best option for me. They also look pretty sleek.
Anyways...I feel like this 9 seater fits both, form and function! Does it look as symmetrical as a 10-seater? No. But that mirroring keeps it looking sane at least.
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justsomedude
Straight Flush
Correct.
This layout is for players sitting next to cup holders, not in front of them. That being said, I think it still works for players centered at each cupholder. Simply because my goal was to provide more player-spacing around the curves, which this layout achieves. So I don't think I would have done it any differently.
I'm pretty much with you 100% here. I've done slide-under cup holders and I think they are just a cluttered mess, and it's just more "poker crap" to store. I do have space for side-tables, but I don't want them to be an exclusive option... some players just want their drink at the table. And I agree... in-rail cup holders can look great if/when done right.
Furthermore, the only major "con" people have to in-rail cup holders is that it "destroys" the monolithic padded rail-rest if you don't want a drink. I think that's a bit extreme. If the only negative is that your arm may not be in full contact with the rail when you rest your arms on it, that's not enough of a negative for me to abandon it from a design perspective. And if you're actually using the cup holder, that means you want your drink in front of you, so it's not that much of an encumbrance in that regard either. Do fixed cup holders limit seating positions/options? Yes, but I consider that to be a positive, as it keeps player seated where they're supposed to be (from a spacing perspective).
Yes... in a perfect world we'd all have 60'x60' poker rooms that provide enough space for full size tables and drink carts. Short of that, I think cup holders in-rail are just fine as a compromise.
Haha! In what universe? It must be the altitude!
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justsomedude
Straight Flush
Haha! In what universe? It must be the altitude!
Hahahaha fair point!!!
I think ultimately I have to "challenge" this, depending on the poker table.
If you have a table on the smaller size, like a 7'er (say, 84" x 45"), following this guideline could bite you. The "rule of thumb" for elbow space is 24" inches. Following this guideline on the table size mentioned gives you a slot at 20.884" and another 2 at ~21.278" of rail perimeter or "elbow space".
These 3 slots break the bank.
I'm still working on measuring the other slots, but as the table is rounded those restrictions don't matter as much as humans are more "flat" and not "concave" to match the circle.
Anyways, what is to be done? I think the answer might be dependent on table size...if you are looking at ~24" per player, you should use the outer rail to place cup holders. If you have plenty of room, then shrinking the "flat sides" in to provide more playing area to the "corner boys" is probably fine.
Thoughts?
I have joined you in this cup holder placement hell, LOL. Victims of our own (mild?) OCD.
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