Cash Game Breakdown for versatile chip set (2 Viewers)

[Mental Nomad]

 

[Mental Nomad]

Crazily enough, I see more flaws in these chips from 30 seconds of looking at the photos than from two years of playing them. I'm tempted to clean off all the edges with my thumbnail, but nobody has ever cared before, and these are the cheapest chips I own and play, and I have better things to do... But, next time the nieces are over, I may employ their perfectionist tendencies for a little manual labor in return for treats...

Also, PCF reduced the resolution dramatically, even on the "full size" views. If there's a particular stack you want to see closer, let me know, and I'll crop in a close from the originals. One of the stacks of quarters looks really raggedy in the close-up... but from normal viewing distance, I can't even pick it out.

 

[BGinGA]

Look pretty decent for a sixteen-cent chip. People expecting perfection from a cheap mass-produced Chinese plastic poker chip are pretty unrealistic.

 

[Mental Nomad]

Look pretty decent for a sixteen-cent chip. People expecting perfection from a cheap mass-produced Chinese plastic poker chip are pretty unrealistic.

Agreed. Also, I've looked really, really, really closely at my Boardwalks - a 55-centish Sun-Fly ceramic hybrid chip. After having taken this closer look at these cheapies, I'm reminded how very good the Sun-Flys are, for a very reasonable price.

 

[Trihonda]

People still posting in this thread? lol I thought the OP figured it all out. I could be wrong tho.

But Mental, I agree with those chips being a good value. I hope the OP looks to a budget friendly option right now.


When I first started chipping, my budget was like $300, and I wanted everything, but could afford nothing. However, I did follow the advice of many in the community (including Dave), and it's only cost me tons of money... My next chip purchase will be in excess of $4,000... Crazy how priorities change.

 

[Nex]

You guys did indeed help me a lot with improving my initially planned chip breakdown. Especially regarding optimizing for the number of expectable rebuys, and continuously checking the total bank size metric (I did this for my very first few drafts but then stopped doing it). When I opened this thread, I had no more ideas how to further optimize what I already had at that point, and you guys gave me some hints.

Thank you as well for poking me another time regarding higher-stakes games and security. While I had thought this through initially, I only did it when I started planning for the low-stakes set, and forgot about it later when I started planning the higher-stakes set.

Also thanks for the chip type change suggestions, both up- and well as downgrades – but for now I think the type of chip that best fits the quality/price ratio (and has the nicest design) I'm looking for right now still is Nile Club.

Since I have samples of Nile Club as well as some Sun-Flys I can compare them directly. While the glossy edges of the Sun-Flys really do feel nice, I'm not fond of getting stock design chips that likely are neither going to be edge- nor face aligned, especially at the premium I'd be paying for them compared to the Nile Club. I rather pick the all-around smooth Nile Clubs even if they have a bunch of spinners and lower print quality. Going the custom ceramic route and getting face- and edge-aligned Sun-Flys costs enough that it's not really worth anymore in my eyes starting off with these. When I get customs, it'll very likely be CPC clays later on. The price/quality of those then actually justify spending a lot of time on making a really good custom design for them imo.

And downgrading to Poker Knights – well, I don't expect plastics to be anywhere near perfect, but I expect any chips I get to feel smooth around the edges, without tears or grates. The Poker Knights don't seem to meet this criterion, judging by the pics from both Hobbyphilic and you, so they're not an option for me (although their design does look good). I also dislike the significantly higher weight compared to ceramics or real clays, and labels in general, no matter how well-glued and well-positioned they are. Here, the higher price of the (low-end) ceramics is just still worth it to me.

 

[mummel]

Agreed. Also, I've looked really, really, really closely at my Boardwalks - a 55-centish Sun-Fly ceramic hybrid chip. After having taken this closer look at these cheapies, I'm reminded how very good the Sun-Flys are, for a very reasonable price.

Mental thanks for the pics. Yeah that's exactly what I was talking about. Those little tears on the edges. I'm not a big fan at all. Do remember if your chips arrived like that or is that wear & tear?

If you scratch them down with your nail though, you can smooth them at the cost of some discoloration. Pick your poison.

Here's a pic of a barrel of bluffs. These are new. I would say compared to the sword & spade mold, they look better in quality. Someone mentioned the S&S mold being better? It does not look like the case. But again, this barrel has never been used. I would be curious to see a barrel of brand new sword & spade chips to get a real comparison.

Guys my vote still goes for the Bluffs for a low end chip for those on a tight budget. But I think if you can scrounge up the extra scratch, even if you are on a tight budget, it's worth trying to shoot for the China clays. However, for a charity tourney or something where you would need a few thousand chips, I would not hesitate to go with the bluffs.

PS. Sample pic is in poor light. The pic doesn't do them justice.

 

[BGinGA]

Here's a pic of a barrel of bluffs.... I would say compared to the sword & spade mold, they look better in quality. Someone mentioned the S&S mold being better? It does not look like the case.

Guys my vote still goes for the Bluffs for a low end chip for those on a tight budget. ....for a charity tourney or something where you would need a few thousand chips, I would not hesitate to go with the bluffs.

I totally disagree with all of those statements/opinions, especially given that you have exactly ZERO experience with the chips you are comparing and recommending. Even your photos above show the excessive amount of hard plastic flash and uneven edge spot material issues that are common on stitch mold chips.

The spade/sword mold consistently exhibits a higher level of quality and workmanship than does the stitch mold, and the softer materials used generates a less irritating clanking sound and a much less slippery surface than the stitch mold. The spade/sword mold chips have superior stacking, feel, and sound over the stitch molds at a nearly identical price point.

 

[Trihonda]

I totally disagree with all of those statements/opinions, especially given that you have exactly ZERO experience with the chips you are comparing and recommending. Even your photos above show the excessive amount of hard plastic flash and uneven edge spot material issues that are common on stitch mold chips.

The spade/sword mold consistently exhibits a higher level of quality and workmanship than does the stitch mold, and the softer materials used generates a less irritating clanking sound and a much less slippery surface than the stitch mold. The spade/sword mold chips have superior stacking, feel, and sound over the stitch molds at a nearly identical price point.

+1

And also, we're talking about minutia of plastic slugged chips and potential for slight imperfections. Oy vey!

To the OP, get the chips you want. Follow the recommendations, or not. Play poker. /thread.

 

[Mental Nomad]

Yeah that's exactly what I was talking about. Those little tears on the edges. I'm not a big fan at all. Do remember if your chips arrived like that or is that wear & tear?

They definitely arrived like that; there's no way to cause flash from handling. ("Flash" is the term for this kind of leakage at seams during molding.)

If you scratch them down with your nail though, you can smooth them at the cost of some discoloration. Pick your poison.

No, if I scratch off the flash and rub the edge on my t-shirt, there's no color blemish or other discoloration. There's no visible mark to capture in pictures. The soft (for a chip) material means this is nearly effortless and leaves no mark.

Some of the chips also show a small dent in the edge - that's from wear and handling. From being dropped, from being thrown into pots, etc.

The truth is that the bits of flash sticking out are very, very soft. So soft that I do not feel them. And no, I'm not a manual laborer with sandpaper hands... I make my living at a keyboard. If it were possible to feel the flash in this soft material, I'd have filed them long ago. Now, even picking a chip with flash and playing with it, I barely notice it... in some cases, the flash feels softer than the regular chip edge. Think of it like the edge of a feather.

Those nine-stripe chips you show, though - the Bluffs - that's a much harder plastic. (I also have samples of those and Milanos.) The flash in those (which is visible in the photo you posted) would be much rougher-feeling than the bit on my Monacos.

I would be curious to see a barrel of brand new sword & spade chips to get a real comparison.

Actually, can do. I also have a 600-piece set of these that I got for Tourney. Except that I never run tourneys, save for the occasional Turbo - and for those, I use my Nine Dragons set (GOCC ceramics). So my Tourneys are effectively unused. But I can't do those pics today.

 

[Mental Nomad]

The spade/sword mold chips have superior stacking, feel, and sound over the stitch molds at a nearly identical price point.

I got lucky with my pick, but I, and my players, have been happy with them. That being said, they do agree that my Boardwalks (Sun-Fly) and Nine Dragons (GOCC) look and feel better. Most would admit my Paulsons feel better, too, but most don't get to play them! (No fracs, and I mostly run micro games.)

 

[mummel]

Those nine-stripe chips you show, though - the Bluffs - that's a much harder plastic. (I also have samples of those and Milanos.) The flash in those (which is visible in the photo you posted) would be much rougher-feeling than the bit on my Monacos.

Ah great so you have samples of both for a direct comparison. The flashing in your pics looks way worse than the Bluffs (you could take a real close up like my pic to better compare, you can hardly see the flashing on the bluffs at a small distance). But I hear what you're saying about the hardness of the plastic. Flashing on hard plastics = sharp edges. It seems like it would be easy to round the S&S mold edges say on a pair of jeans if the plastic is as soft as you say.

Interesting thread. I need to get myself a sample of the showdowns before commiting to a cheap travel set.

 

[mummel]

 

[Jambine]

Wait.... Desert palms are clay and ceramics are plastic?

 

[BGinGA]

 

[Trihonda]

Paulson WTHC chips are $1.30/chip? How old is that video?

 

[Nex]

Quite old. Was uploaded shortly after Paulson announced their production stop for consumer market chips, when vendors still had stock.

Anyway... I actually did manage to break one of the Nile Club samples I had meanwhile. Still not with my bare hands – but a 1 meter drop on floor tiles sealed its fate. Still wonder how they hold up to manual force just fine, but instantly break from just a short drop on a hard surface...
This certainly is too brittle for my liking, even if I get some extras for replacement, so yeah, I'm convinced now that I better don't pick them.

It looks like I'm out of well-priced ceramic options.

I've contacted one of the local businesses that handle custom Sun-Fly production for bulk pricing now. I really don't like the much more plastic-y sound of the Sun-Flys and will probably have to go with the more expensive edge-aligned ones, but I guess that's still my best option for now (given I don't like the cheap plastics with metal inserts).

Late edit: Got a good bulk offer on the custom ceramics.
Also received my CPC samples today. Man, I'm sold on these already... soon hopefully

 

[mummel]

@Mental Nomad - hey so I got out that barrel of Bluffs and tried your finger nail trick. Man is it tedious, but it works really well. You have to take every chip, run your finger along the one edge, find any sharp edges, then scrape them down with your finger nail and polish with your jeans. Then flip the same chip and search the other edge. Rinse an repeat. I then stacked the barrel and rolled it to see if there were any edges I missed, or if there was any plastic flashing on the flat edge part that I missed.

It takes forever!! But the results are very good. The final barrel looks really decent with sharp cornered edges like typical casino chips (vs the beveled China clays). You get some discoloration here and there from the scraping, but not really noticeable.

Not sure I would do this with 1000 chips..... Also, even though this plastic flashing issue can be remedied, I found that the barrel has 1-2 noticeable spinners and when pressing down on the barrel from the top, the gaps are noticeable between the chips. I have not seen this across nearly ~60 of my other Milano barrels.

 

[Mental Nomad]

Not sure I would do this with 1000 chips....

Yeah, though it's easy enough to do while watching TV or something, it takes a lot of time. What's worse, you can't necessarily do a couple barrels between games, if they're getting used... the 'finished' and 'unprocessed' get mixed in play!

The softer material on the Monacos may make it easier. I suspect they're softer than the Bluffs

Also, even though this plastic flashing issue can be remedied, I found that the barrel has 1-2 noticeable spinners

That's a different kind of problem - one which I haven't seen with Sword & Spade mold. I don't know if it's due to the "Greek Key" stitch mold used for the Bluffs (also Desert Heat, Gold Rush, Rock & Roll, The Mint), or something else about their manufacturing process / material, but I've had no spinners at all on the Sword & Spades in my sets (used for Monaco Club, Poker Knights, Showdown...) They stack great, and stacking problems are something I would have noticed at the table.

 

[mummel]

Yeah, though it's easy enough to do while watching TV or something, it takes a lot of time. What's worse, you can't necessarily do a couple barrels between games, if they're getting used... the 'finished' and 'unprocessed' get mixed in play!

The softer material on the Monacos may make it easier. I suspect they're softer than the Bluffs



That's a different kind of problem - one which I haven't seen with Sword & Spade mold. I don't know if it's due to the "Greek Key" stitch mold used for the Bluffs (also Desert Heat, Gold Rush, Rock & Roll, The Mint), or something else about their manufacturing process / material, but I've had no spinners at all on the Sword & Spades in my sets (used for Monaco Club, Poker Knights, Showdown...) They stack great, and stacking problems are something I would have noticed at the table.

Even more of a reason for me to pickup some S&S mold chips! How do you feel about the weight? If the spinner issue is solved and the flashing issue can be remmendied, then for for 15c a chip, not bad at all for those on a budget!!! But I have become so used to my China clays, that these 14g chips feel pretty heavy. My fingers even get tired after shuffling for a while. Perhaps one can get used to the weight? How do you feel about it?

 

[mummel]

Quick update on the Bluffs. Ive been playing with them all day. I got to say, I cannot recommend them based on the spinner issue alone. They are nice to look at and aesthetically pretty decent, but I cant get over the spinner issue.

 

[AceFour]

Slightly resurrecting this thread which has great information from the members. I've been researching first for myself and now for cigar shop. Right now it is looking like a custom CPC ceramic chip. Friend of mine is mocking up some crazy fun designs for a full printed chip.

I took advice here and elsewhere and got samples galore: Majestics, Milano, 12-strip blanks (Monaco), The Mint, Old West Ceramic, CPC Clay. Everyone has their own preferences on what they want from a chip in terms of quality. For me flatness and overall look.

I haven't decided on my home game set yet. The 13.5g chips just feel really heavy to me so I like the Majestics and Milano. I like the Majestics colors better but in the sample I received the black chip had a slightly smaller diameter. Cannot afford Paulson's, but that 2200 chipset for sale makes me want to buy a few lottery tickets.

Bottom line - Get samples before buying.

 

[crussader]

For the $10's, I again made some calculations, and I can't see how replacing them with other chips, particularly of lower denominations, would ameliorate or solve the bottleneck that's already in there – replacing with $5's would make it a bit worse, and replacing with others would make it significantly worse.

I'm late to the party again, but I wanted to touch on this. It's not $5s that will cover your plans for the $10s. You will find that $20 or $25 chips will work much better than the $10s.

 

[Nex]

Guys, this thread is half a year old. Nice necro...

A lot of decisions have been made since then. The chip set about which this thread was is already here, so any advice regarding the questions asked here is mostly irrelevant by now.

- I scrapped the cheap(er) stock chip idea and went with Sun-Fly semi-customs. I did have samples of all chips I considered and they did help me with the decision.
- I did grab a small set of Monaco Club as well though since I needed a 600ct carrier, and getting one shipped empty vs. filled with those didn't make too much of a difference given the high additional shipping/import costs from the US to Germany. They're rotting away in my cupboard... Points to note: 1) They have a lot of grates, 2) The material is soft enough so you can just remove those grates and make them somewhat smooth by grinding them on a pair of jeans, 3) Label placement is horrible, failure rate high. If you want to get those be prepared to order some extra rolls of every denom (particularly $5) if you hate labels misplaced so far that they stick out of their recess.
- I dropped the more exotic denoms, got a bigger number of chips instead but reduced the stakes spread the set should be fit for. Went with a $25 chip for the ceramics, CPC clay set will likely have $20s.