Button movement question (1 Viewer)

[trigs]

I have question about button movement in relation to the beginning/end of a hand: When the button is moved to the next player to the left, does that movement represent the end of the previous hand, or the beginning of the next hand? To phrase it another way, does the previous hand end with the button moving, or does the next hand start with the button moving?

I'm just curious since I have been using bomb pot buttons that each player gets and they can call a bomb pot whenever they want. Obviously, most players call them when they are the button as the button doesn't move on a bomb pot.

My understanding is that the movement of the button is the start of the next hand. So, technically if someone wanted to play a bomb pot on their button, they'd have to play the hand on the button first and then call the bomb pot after that hand because that would keep the button where it is.

Obviously not a big deal at all, but was just curious. Maybe this is just semantics? Maybe the button moving exists in between the end of one hand and the beginning of the next hand?

 

[joeyshin]

If self dealing. They can just call him pot before they deal right? I don’t think there’s a definitive end and immediate start. Hand ends when pot is pushed and cards collected. Hand begins when cards are cut. There can be a mezzanine of time between.

I would say person has to call bomb pot before the first card is dealt

 

[Mike Wells]

A hand starts when the shuffle starts.

 

[trigs]

A hand starts when the shuffle starts.

We tend to have a dealer and we play with two decks, so the shuffle for the next hand takes place during the current hand. Dealer cuts the shuffled deck, so I guess that would still be part of the shuffle.

 

[glynn]

My understanding is that the movement of the button is the start of the next hand.

I have never heard this, so I'm wondering where you picked it up. If it's a local norm, then that's cool, but it's not the common definition.

Mike is correct that the next hand is typically considered to have started upon the first riffle of the cards. Obviously, that definition doesn't make sense when automatic shufflers are involved or when a second deck is being shuffled during the current hand, but I don't know of an alternative definition that involves the button.

Regardless, an easy solution would be to have players elect for a bomb pot by throwing their chip into the current pot to be played at the next button position.

So if a player wants to play a bomb pot on his button, then he can throw it into the pot while he is in the small blind. His opportunity has passed once the pot is pushed.

fwiw this is how I've seen it done in games with bomb pot buttons, and there are no issues.

 

[allforcharity]

We call bomb pot before the cards are dealt, or at least before any hole card is seen. We combine bomb pots with dealer's choice, so it makes sense to do that.

 

[chippitydoodah]

I have question about button movement in relation to the beginning/end of a hand: When the button is moved to the next player to the left, does that movement represent the end of the previous hand, or the beginning of the next hand? To phrase it another way, does the previous hand end with the button moving, or does the next hand start with the button moving?

I'm just curious since I have been using bomb pot buttons that each player gets and they can call a bomb pot whenever they want. Obviously, most players call them when they are the button as the button doesn't move on a bomb pot.

My understanding is that the movement of the button is the start of the next hand. So, technically if someone wanted to play a bomb pot on their button, they'd have to play the hand on the button first and then call the bomb pot after that hand because that would keep the button where it is.

Obviously not a big deal at all, but was just curious. Maybe this is just semantics? Maybe the button moving exists in between the end of one hand and the beginning of the next hand?

Or....when on the button call & play Bomb Pot first then button stays and resume normal game

 

[Machine]

I checked the dealer's handbook, oddly enough it doesn't have 'An anatomy of a poker hand'.

Assuming a dealer in the game, the hand is over after the pot is awarded, and the winning hand is returned to the dealer.

The dealer would then push the button, shuffle the cards and just as the first card comes off of the top of the deck, the next hand has started.

The bomb pot should be called between the time the button is moved, and the first card comes off the deck. If you are self-dealt and its shuffle behind, you could have cards coming out before the previous hand is collected by the shuffler.

In most underground / home games, as long as the button hasn't looked at their cards its fine to call a bomb pot.

 

[Machine]

I think I would change the way the bomb pots are called.

The Issue:
I think this is an issue because you're shuffling cards, but you want to call a bomb pot, and your neighbor (to the left) is dealing their button. By the time you collect the cards and realize you can call a bomb pot the next hand has started.

My Resolution:
I would put in a single bomb pot button, and I would rotate it counterclockwise (that's anti clockwise to all of you not in NA) and when the two buttons meet, you play a bomb pot, after the hand the bomb pot button moves right, and then you play normally, and the button is moved to the left.

This would cause a hiccup in the shuffle, basically the guy just behind the bomb pot button will need to shuffle twice, but everyone will have to do it.

 

[ValueTown]

We've used 2 buttons to ensure bomb pots are rotating each time.

 

[ArielVer18]

The first riffle of the shuffle marks the start of the next hand. If you're using two decks, then the cut signify the start.

 

[BGinGA]

The first riffle of the shuffle marks the start of the next hand. If you're using two decks, then the cut signify the start.

^ This.

Movement of the button marks the end of the previous hand. Everything else should already have occurred: kill losing hands, award pot, collect all cards (winning hand, board cards, muck, and deck stub).

 

[Mike Wells]

The best thing about having two buttons is the bomb pot eclipse. If both buttons are in the same position...double stakes!

 

[Dbxela]

Sounds like the confusion occurs because you don't play the button's hand as the bomb pot, you have a way to insert an extra hand and want to decide if it's before or after the button.

For us, the bomb pots, if available, plays in practice like dealers choice, that's what you call for the hand where you are the button (though we can call them in other spots), and the button moves as usual after that hand.