Club Hel: Choice is an Illusion (CPC) (1 Viewer)

[Ronoh]

To everyone else, regardless if you already ordered a sample set or not, would you be interested in a dealer button if there was one?

Yes. If you do multiple version I will take one of all buttons you get made

 

[Psypher1000]

It’s unlikely I would take a dealer button, but I won’t give a certain yes/no unless I see designs. Every now and then I spring for them.

 

[Nex]

So yeah, regarding font size and readability, I think I might even be good without making many adjustments. But I'll still make sure with test prints and David's experience.

On this close-up shot: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/media/cash-20.7452/
The "Las Vegas, Nevada" label roughly has the same line height/font size as my text labels, on a mold with roughly equal texture.

 

[tommythecat]

In for one full sample set + 4 extras...also in for a dealer button if you decide to do one.

 

[liftapint]

Do you have the deal in place where the re-shipper can do a micro-order with CPC? If I were the re-shipper, and I had 20 sample recipients, would David Spragg let me order 20 per chip from your order? I would be willing to do that for the US base, as long as you have already worked that out with CPC. But there are going to be additional costs on top of the chip costs. The fees from CPC (2.5%), plus the cost for shipping from them to me, would have to be spread across the US orders.

 

[Nex]

Do you have the deal in place where the re-shipper can do a micro-order with CPC? If I were the re-shipper, and I had 20 sample recipients, would David Spragg let me order 20 per chip from your order? I would be willing to do that for the US base, as long as you have already worked that out with CPC. But there are going to be additional costs on top of the chip costs. The fees from CPC (2.5%), plus the cost for shipping from them to me, would have to be spread across the US orders.

I'm not sure where those 2.5% fees would come from for US sample orders? That's only for the chips that actually get shipped to the EU, namely for importing them through the UK. If the chips stay in the US in the first place, this doesn't apply, and that's how it would go - one big package to David in the UK, one small package directly to an US address, straight from the factory.

Basically, David has told me he's prefer to keep it one single order, but he has told me it's no big deal to have a certain quantity of chips from my order shipped to a different address. This makes me think there is absolutely no minimum order on any of those chips purely for samples, as I've already surpassed all the minimums with my main order.

Edit: Well, yeah transaction fees. I think I sort of forgot those in my own calculations as well, only have the currency conversion in. I hope David accepts PayPal sent via F&F too?

 

[Nex]

Two workdays have passed now and I haven't received a message back from EmpireStudio yet.
Anyone know if the contact form on the website is bugged?

 

[Scott Andrews]

@Nex, the matrix is one of my favorite movies of all time. This set is awesome. I am in for a full set of samples plus all extra chips. I want them alllllll! . Can you PM the final cost to me? Thanks for offering samples of this.

 

[Rhodeman77]

I'm not sure where those 2.5% fees would come from for US sample orders? That's only for the chips that actually get shipped to the EU, namely for importing them through the UK. If the chips stay in the US in the first place, this doesn't apply, and that's how it would go - one big package to David in the UK, one small package directly to an US address, straight from the factory.

Basically, David has told me he's prefer to keep it one single order, but he has told me it's no big deal to have a certain quantity of chips from my order shipped to a different address. This makes me think there is absolutely no minimum order on any of those chips purely for samples, as I've already surpassed all the minimums with my main order.

Edit: Well, yeah transaction fees. I think I sort of forgot those in my own calculations as well, only have the currency conversion in. I hope David accepts PayPal sent via F&F too?

He can't take PayPay F&F but if you mail a check or money order you can avoid that fee. Not sure how that would work with international orders though. For my big orders I pay by check to save the 2.5%

 

[Nex]

Yeah, I think check is no option for anything international. Or even if it was - my bank charges a fixed 35€ fee for foreign wire transactions, which is a good deal compared to PayPal's % based fee when you send a substantial amount, but the sample orders are hardly going to reach that point.

Looks like I did do the calculations too tight. Currency conversion plus the regular commercial payment fees will probably surpass the buffer a bit.

 

[Nex]

Update: I've now included a 4% markup in the chip prices to cover the payment fees to CPC.

Anyone who has already paid, or has already received a price quote from me via PM, will keep the previously offered price. New prices only apply to new sample set orders.

 

[Nex]

Update: Getting the inlay artwork ready for printing is nearing the finish line.
The graphics look quite hideous on screen now, but on a cheapo inkjet they print pretty much like they initially looked in the mockups.

 

[Nex]

Update: CPC did another test print today; inlays for all chips also offered as samples are ready now. Another test print soon for three more inlays that still needed minor work.

I would like to remind everyone that this Wednesday, October 11th, 12:00 UTC is the deadline for sample set orders. This is the day I will finalize my order by adding the sample set chips and kick off production, and I need to have the money from everyone wanting samples by then. (If there are any hopes that I'm ordering extra sample sets for later sale, I have to disappoint you. I am indeed ordering some extra samples, yes, but none of those will be for sale.)

ping @Jeff @Forty4 @liftapint @Scott Andrews

Converted to your local time zone: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20171011T12

Regarding dealer buttons, I have meanwhile received a partial response to my questions from EmpireStudio. Still waiting for answers to the rest (bulk pricing/min order and artwork limitations). A DB design has been prepared but I don't know yet if he can do it exactly like that. Judging by the reaction time so far, this might drag on for a while, but I'll stay on it. Combined shipping with sample sets shouldn't be an issue yet I think, as the chips likely take much longer to manufacture than the buttons.

 

[Nex]

Update: Received an answer to the rest of my questions for dealer buttons this morning. Regular price €15.90 per button, slight discount starting at 10 pieces and a substantial discount at 50 pieces (don't believe we have the slightest chance of hitting that last one though), plus your share of the shipping costs from them to me.

This shipping share should come down to a bit less than €2. I've only had him do a shipping quote for an exemplary order of 10 buttons and then divided that by 10, but I guess you can assume that shipping more buttons will likely not increase but rather lower the shipping cost per button a tiny bit. Shipping from me to you can be combined with the samples if you don't order too many things. Dimensions- and weight-wise, a single bubblewrap should be able to take one full sample set with extras and up to 4 buttons of the size I was aiming for (2.5" diameter, 70-ish grams).

Big letdown is, they don't support fades/gradients, so easing out the edges of the circle/cross logo like you can see on the inlays will not be possible, and I'm unsure if it'll still look that good when the logo has hard edges all around. He said however faux fades (= variably sized small dots, like in offset printing) could be done, so maybe I can at least get close to the look I had in mind.

Here's my initial mockup (which however won't work exactly like that because of the fade):

(Please note that the actual manufactured button would be clear and the engraving will look sort of milky-ish white; in the graphic, white means clear and black means engraved)

Questions to people interested in dealer buttons:

• Would you be interested in a dealer button at such a price point in the first place?
  
• Do you like the mockup design? If not, what would you do with it?

 

[tommythecat]

I like the design but would likely be out for the button at that price.

 

[Nex]

Final inlay artwork print test is in and looks 100% good to me.

Late edit: Proofs likely coming Mon/Tue. Sample orders and the additional money is already at CPC; payment for the main set has been there for about one and a half weeks already, so the material preparations might have already started behind the curtains.

 

[Nex]

Update: Got my proofs today!
One single spot color was wrong on one of the mystery chips so I'll probably receive another, but the rest is fine.
This should be the last thing before production starts I believe?



Also grabbed chip packaging materials and customs declaration forms. Still waiting on the bubblewrap envelopes.

So my packaging plan for sample sets is this: I'll put the chips into homemade 2x2 and 2x1 "chip pouches" so they don't touch each other and can't move. If I do dealer buttons, I'd tape those together (if ordering multiple) and then to the chip pouches, once again so nothing can move. Then put all that in a plastic bag and seal it air-tight (or as close as I can get) to avoid moisture reaching them during transport - I don't think the bubblewraps are 100% airtight. Plastic bag into the bubblewrap envelope and done.

Question to you guys: Anything about this you would improve or do in a different way? Just want to avoid any potential transport damage that can be avoided with proper packaging up front.

Late update (Oct 17): Fixed proof has arrived, all approved now! Also got informed that about half the clay for my order has already been prepared. Probably won't get too many more status updates until shortly before the finish line though.

Even later update (Oct 18): Bubblewraps are here. Only the chips are missing now
Given they've already been preparing the clay apparently since I paid my main order, I still have hope that maybe the chips make it here shortly before christmas instead of after new year as in the worst-case scenario.

Haven't found time yet to work on the dealer button artwork, attempting to replace the fade with something similar-looking that Empire can actually technically do. Maybe sometime today.

 

[Nex]

Made some 5¢ chips yesterday to shorten the wait a bit.

 

[Nex]

Update: Sweet renders thanks to @Ray-Col!

Late update: More to come...

Later update: And more...

Even later update: Still more...

Yet even later update: The final batch!

 

[Nex]

Update: Finally got around to rework my dealer button mockup to not use gradients anymore. Will send it to Empire later for checking.

Also, if my calculations are right, CPC should be nearly done with making the clay by now. Guess I'll get an update from David soon-ish, maybe middle of next week or so.

 

[Nex]

@Psypher1000 @Jeff @PAZ @Ronoh and any lurkers --

One final round of Dealer Button interest gauging!
I'd like to get everything including receiving and sending payment down until coming wednesday (1st November), so it would be nice if I could get at least an initial answer from everyone this weekend.

Order deadline ended on Wednesday, November 1st, 15:00 UTC+1.​

Details:

• engraved acrylic glass by Empire Studio
• round shape
• diameter ~2.5" (~63mm)
• thickness ~1/3" (~8mm)
• weight ~70g

Design:

White areas in the graphic will be transparent; black areas will be milky white engraved.
(See sample of finished product with different design here.)
Compared to the last one, I increased font size and thickness a little bit.

Mockup (by @Ray-Col):

€15.90 per button.
Unfortunately no bulk discount unless we manage to crack the number of 10-15 buttons (and even then the discount is pretty negligible)

• Shipping cost per button from them to me is TBD (estimating something around €3.00 to €3.50) and will be fixed once I have the total number of buttons to order.
• If you already ordered a sample set, I can stuff up to about 4 buttons into the already paid-for bubblewrap envelope alongside your sample set.
• If you did not order a sample set, shipping to international locations will be €5.80 tracked, straight from Empire in France (= abovementioned shipping costs will not apply). If you sit in Germany, I'll reship - this will still be slightly cheaper than direct shipping from Empire.

Orders:

1. me - 2 buttons
2. @Jeff - 1 button - PAID
3. @Ronoh - 1 button - PAID
4. @PAZ - 1 button - PAID

 

[Jeff]

In for 1.

 

[Psypher1000]

No dealer button for me.

 

[Jeff]

@Ronoh dont miss out!

 

[Ronoh]

I'll take a button thanks

@Ronoh dont miss out!

I go back and forth between thinking you're being nice and making sure I don't miss out... other times I kinda-sorta feel like you're poking/prodding/rubbing it in.

If it's the former then thanks! If it's the latter I'm swiping ten buttons in July

 

[Jeff]

Is the former! I hope you look out for me too!

 

[PAZ]

Still in!

 

[Nex]

Thanks for the quick replies guys!

Since I've now got feedback from everyone who has initially expressed interest in a DB, this merely leaves lurkers.

When I get the mockups, I'll ask for another shipping quote for exactly those 5 buttons so I can wrap up calculations for you guys already. (Edit: For @Ronoh I'll also evaluate if it's cheaper to have Empire directly send the button to you)

Even if there's more orders coming in later, I doubt the shipping cost per button would go up but rather a little further down - you'll simply get the surplus back once the order is through. (@Psypher1000, I also still have your case on my radar!)

 

[Meddler2]

Buzzkill. I love LOVE shaped inlays but a dark shaped inlay on a dark base colored chip is not as visually stunning as it could/should be with this epic design.

 

[Nex]

Buzzkill. I love LOVE shaped inlays but a dark shaped inlay on a dark base colored chip is not as visually stunning as it could/should be with this epic design.

Lol, I assume then you haven't yet examined the spots on the white rabbit chip?
Subtlety!

I only put the shaped inlay on the $100 for consistency reasons though. Would have been strange for all upper denoms to have a shaped inlay but the $100 regular round.