Coaching question (1 Viewer)

[CHP TD]

Hey all

I always wondered about approaching the thought of coaching.

But I have no idea:

What is reasonable to pay a coach,
can i afford a coach?
who to ask to be a coach
What to ask? whats the stuff i don't know that i don't know?
How would i know im getting honest value from a coach
How would i know how good a coach actually is.
Has anyone had experience with a coach and what was the outcome? Worth it or not?

 

[Perthmike]

Hey all

I always wondered about approaching the thought of coaching.

But I have no idea:

What is reasonable to pay a coach,
can i afford a coach?
who to ask to be a coach
What to ask? whats the stuff i don't know that i don't know?
How would i know im getting honest value from a coach
How would i know how good a coach actually is.
Has anyone had experience with a coach and what was the outcome? Worth it or not?

I have no answers for you because I’ve been wondering the same, other than to say you could consider asking a total crusher at your local casino.

Problem for me is that I’ve not seen anyone that I’d rate as good enough that I’d want to pay them.

I’m still pretty average, but I’ve been reading a few books (I like “the course”) and also watching vloggers like Andrew Neeme and brad Owen and feel like those have all helped me a lot and im currently sitting at a very nice hourly at $1/$3 (with some $5/$5 mixed in) over the last 400 hours.

I’m now considering signing up to upswing poker, as I’ve bought a couple of the pre flop and post flop modules and there has been some really good insights so far. I think it’s going to be the best value from my perspective.

 

[CHP TD]

me too Mike

primarily im a tourney/SnG player.

I have a pretty wide collection of books and videos. Presently im reading Colin Mashman Sit and go strategy. and the concepts so far have totally made me think in a new direction. Its a totally new set of concepts.

but so often i find myself asking what were they thinking when they did that? I wonder if its hard to tell the difference between genius and stupidity. Or am i just lying to myself that i actually did it wrong.

And it ridiculous how many suckouts im having.

Or is it only as simple as getting the math so clear in my head that forget everything else and only work the numbers. my issue there is turning the percentages into fractions on the fly in my head. ie cards into percent is easy with the rule of 2 & 4 but then the pot odds - i always have trouble with once people do bets like 1300. into a 4750 pot with 3 callers i just get a jumble of numbers and well its all too late so if im going to do a good bet its 75% of the pot. In most circumstances that is the magic number where drawing is pretty much a bad idea for any draw.

And what is it that i need to know that i don't know?

does that make any sense?

 

[davin]

sign up for with upswing lab or solveforwhy academy, def worth the money

 

[Coyote]

Coming from the bottom of the knowledge pyramid, I might humbly contribute some thoughts.
Maybe the most readily available lesson to draw is that many worthy experts have to either substitute play for coaching or supplement the former with coaching and writing books, for a living.
If their courses are so efficient, why don't they just keep the knowledge for themselves?
It's much softer on the brain and soul to plan and theorize beforehand and analyze afterwards, than to observe, compute, feel and decide on the spot.
It's always easier and safer to be a sharpener than a knife.
If poker were that rational, computers would have taken over completely, just like in chess.

I 'm somewhat skeptical, 'cause I 'm reminded of a school-era joke, according to which you should kindly ask for tutoring some great poet / Literature Nobel Laureate, to prepare you for the next Nobel Literature Exam , providing you among other things, with "past papers"

Bottom line: On a global basis, there are already too many and too good pros and semi-pros, and less income available from the (poker-incompetent) general public, for poker to be considered generally profitable just because you 're a very good player.
If you can afford money and time to become a better player because you just love the game, absolutely do it, but don't take for granted that this time and money invested will necessarily pay off financially, except in local / social niches.

 

[moose]

If you think Colin Mashman was good, Collin Moshman will really blow your mind.

 

[dirty moose]

Ok, let's start here

1) How often do you play?
2) What stakes?
3) How serious are you taking the game?
4) Avoid upswing
5) Solve 4 why is the best you're gonna get right now.

I've done coaching with Christian Soto of S4Y. These guys are the real deal.

Fire away the questions.

 

[Lemonzest]

be careful. many losing players turn to coaching as a last resort. People crushing 2/4 and 5/10 will just play and make money...

Tourney play is a different animal as variance is extreme. Bad players can bink a high profile event while solid players can have long losing spells.

In short coaching is very valuable but only as good as your coach. It is an industry full of some shady folks though.

 

[DrStrange]

Coaching has serious limits and the most serious limit is the student. You can't take a stubborn, easily bored money burning player and turn that person into the big winner in the game. Anyone can improve, but not all that much for most people.

Take me for example - - - buy me a $100,000 worth of the finest baseball coaching and a year to condition & train, best you could hope for is a marginal bench player on the office softball team. I lack the antecedents to be a ball player, training / coaching can only make up for so much.

As a customer, you need to have realistic expectations. Good training can make a difference. The better the player at the start of a coaching relationship, the more potential benefit. (Though someone with little or no poker experience could also benefit greatly.) Regression is likely to be a problem, meaning coaching might need to be an on-going program.

The coach needs to match the player. Someone who is a great coach for me might not fit nearly as well for a different kind of poker player.

Results are hard to quantify, especially for multi-table tournament play. It would be easy to get dazzled by a well know professional or mistake a friendship with the coach as something that benefited your game. Similarly, how can you evaluate someone else's review without extensive knowledge of their before and after games.

Tamp down your expectations, limit your expenditures and make sure you are having fun -=- DrStrange

 

[Rhodeman77]

I’ve heard good things about Red Chip Poker.

But if you are a part time low buy-in player, even if the coaching does help, how long will it take to recover that cost? Does it add an extra pay bump in a tournament?

My advice would be to get a small circle of friends that you can talk Poker with and really break down some hands and situations with. Create a group text. Getting feedback form several other players that you feel are decent players will probably be as helpful as any coaching site. And helping your friends with the hands they bring up will help you as well.

 

[Perthmike]

Ok, let's start here

1) How often do you play?
2) What stakes?
3) How serious are you taking the game?
4) Avoid upswing
5) Solve 4 why is the best you're gonna get right now.

I've done coaching with Christian Soto of S4Y. These guys are the real deal.

Fire away the questions.

Interested to know why you don’t like upswing and prefer s4y.

I’ve looked at a couple of upswing videos and liked them so far. Can’t quite bring myself to pay the subscription though, as I’m also questioning the value for my own purposes.

 

[dirty moose]

I have at least 5 friends that have gone thru the s4y weekend class. I also have taken coaching with Christian Soto. We all kind of have personal relationship with Soto.

I know one thing for sure, These guys only care about poker. They don't care about making you tube videos or voicing their opinion on the poker industry

And last, the S4Y boys are live game players. Polk is more of an on line guy.

Coaching really depends on how serious you are about poker. If you play once a month, prob not worth it at all. Once a week, prob still not worth it.

 

[CHP TD]

If you think Colin Mashman was good, Collin Moshman will really blow your mind.

lols sorry Mr Moshman, mistype right there woops

 

[CHP TD]

I have at least 5 friends that have gone thru the s4y weekend class. I also have taken coaching with Christian Soto. We all kind of have personal relationship with Soto.

I know one thing for sure, These guys only care about poker. They don't care about making you tube videos or voicing their opinion on the poker industry

And last, the S4Y boys are live game players. Polk is more of an on line guy.

Coaching really depends on how serious you are about poker. If you play once a month, prob not worth it at all. Once a week, prob still not worth it.

so what sort of money did Solo charge?

 

[dirty moose]

so what sort of money did Solo charge?

When we did coaching about a year ago it was $750 for 5 sessions.

 

[Danger mouse]

I have at least 5 friends that have gone thru the s4y weekend class. I also have taken coaching with Christian Soto. We all kind of have personal relationship with Soto.

I know one thing for sure, These guys only care about poker. They don't care about making you tube videos or voicing their opinion on the poker industry

And last, the S4Y boys are live game players. Polk is more of an on line guy.

Coaching really depends on how serious you are about poker. If you play once a month, prob not worth it at all. Once a week, prob still not worth it.

Doug isn’t the only one providing content for upswing. At the same time I’m not sure what his other activities have to do with his coaching program.

@CHP TD check out some twitch players if you play online. Guys like allinpav, Buehlero and DramaticDegen all comment on their own play and break down a lot of what they do and why. It is great insight for free.

Allinpav uses upswing, and while yes he is an affiliate for them the amount his game has improved since using it is huge.

 

[CHP TD]

Thanks danger

Much appreciated

if u make it down here ill host a game

geoff

 

[Danger mouse]

No problem mate. Btw allinpav won the $162 bounty builder today on stream for $14k. His game has improved hugely.

TPE is also a good training site to look into.