Criticism Needed On New Game I Designed (2 Viewers)

[Jimulacrum]

So you’d be ok with a game that had four ace of spades in play but not a wild card? Am I reading that wrong?

This does not relate to the content you quoted nor is it supported or implied by anything I said.

 

[ekricket]

This does not relate to the content you quoted nor is it supported or implied by anything I said.

is no different than introducing a normal, non-wild card into play.

Sorry, what normal non wild cards are you talking about introducing?

I agree I’m crafting my replies wrong and it’s my opinion. In the other poker games you listed you can calculate the odds of getting a queen you need for a straight for example, but in these other games there may not even be a queen available to calculate upon.

I don’t hate those games, I actually enjoy them. I get your distinction about a wild card being powerful, but as you say, that’s just another variable to consider when playing.

 

[seyff45]

not sure of the stakes that you guys play, but I'd be reluctant to play a wild card game.

Just my opinion

 

[Jimulacrum]

Sorry, what normal non wild cards are you talking about introducing?

I'm talking about any game mechanic that takes an unseen card from the deck and introduces it into play. This is not materially different from taking a seen card and removing it from play. You start with 52 cards, and the rules of the game govern how they come and go.

I agree I’m crafting my replies wrong and it’s my opinion. In the other poker games you listed you can calculate the odds of getting a queen you need for a straight for example, but in these other games there may not even be a queen available to calculate upon.

If there are no queens left, probability is 0%. If only 3 queens are killed, there's 1 queen left, so you'd calculate based on that.

It's no different than giving yourself 3 outs for a gutshot in Hold'em because the was exposed during the deal, or keeping track of all the spades that are gone in 7 Card Stud. The forced discards change what the probabilities are but certainly don't make them incalculable. (Wild cards don't exactly make them incalculable either, but they make a mess in other ways.)

I will say, though, that one of the downsides of Scarney is that it is such a skill-oriented game. I'd recommend it only for very experienced players, because there is so much to be gained by analyzing the killed cards. In some hands you end up being able to account for like half the deck by showdown, and experienced players will crush inexperienced players with this information.

I don’t hate those games, I actually enjoy them. I get your distinction about a wild card being powerful, but as you say, that’s just another variable to consider when playing.

The issue with wild cards (and, say, features like "Chicago") is the disproportionality. These circus-game features like forced discards and killed boards aren't disproportionate to the extent that they dominate all other aspects of the game. They're just one feature.

 

[ekricket]

I'm talking about any game mechanic that takes an unseen card from the deck and introduces it into play. This is not materially different from taking a seen card and removing it from play. You start with 52 cards, and the rules of the game govern how they come and go.

If there are no queens left, probability is 0%. If only 3 queens are killed, there's 1 queen left, so you'd calculate based on that.

It's no different than giving yourself 3 outs for a gutshot in Hold'em because the was exposed during the deal, or keeping track of all the spades that are gone in 7 Card Stud. The forced discards change what the probabilities are but certainly don't make them incalculable. (Wild cards don't exactly make them incalculable either, but they make a mess in other ways.)

I will say, though, that one of the downsides of Scarney is that it is such a skill-oriented game. I'd recommend it only for very experienced players, because there is so much to be gained by analyzing the killed cards. In some hands you end up being able to account for like half the deck by showdown, and experienced players will crush inexperienced players with this information.

The issue with wild cards (and, say, features like "Chicago") is the disproportionality. These circus-game features like forced discards and killed boards aren't disproportionate to the extent that they dominate all other aspects of the game. They're just one feature.

*shrugs*

As long as we all have the same chance of getting the wild card I personally don’t see the difference.

I’d probably take the opportunity during the round of this to go do other stuff, and a lot of people do the same with games where you lose cards and boards. It’s all just stuff you have to account for. Don’t get the wild card? Fold.

 

[Jimulacrum]

As long as we all have the same chance of getting the wild card I personally don’t see the difference.

The difference is that once the wild card is out, the hand is basically over because the person with the wild card effectively has a 30-card hand. None of the other game mechanics we're discussing have this level of disproportionate effect.

I’d probably take the opportunity during the round of this to go do other stuff, and a lot of people do the same with games where you lose cards and boards. It’s all just stuff you have to account for.

I bet 5 Card Regular Poker players felt the same way when discards and redraws were introduced with 5 Card Draw.

And 5 Card Draw players felt the same way when exposed cards were introduced with 7 Card Stud.

And 7 Card Stud players felt the same way when community board cards were introduced with Hold'em.

And Hold'em players felt the same way when more hole cards and restrictions on how to play them were introduced with Omaha.*

It's all just stuff you have to account for.

And didn't you just say a couple replies ago that you personally like playing these games?

Don’t get the wild card? Fold.

Sure. Great strategy. Same as Chicago. This is why wild cards generally suck; they take all the thought out of the game and turn it into a wild-card hunt.

These other features don't do that.

Spoiler: *

How do you feel about the 2 unused cards in your Omaha hand? By showdown, they have exactly the same value as that pair of tens that got killed by the kill board in Scarney.

 

[ekricket]

It's all just stuff you have to account for.

As you say, it’s just another thing to account for.

 

[allforcharity]

TL;DR, probably sucks (heh)

 

[ekricket]

And didn't you just say a couple replies ago that you personally like playing these games?

Yes I did say I liked scarney and derailment. What’s your point? Are you trying to trick me with my own words or something? Is that the gist of this discussion, trying to better me or some thing? Have at it. I like what I like and don’t like what I don’t like. Go for it

 

[Jimulacrum]

Yes I did say I liked scarney and derailment. What’s your point? Are you trying to trick me with my own words or something? Is that the gist of this discussion, trying to better me or some thing? Have at it. I like what I like and don’t like what I don’t like. Go for it

I interpreted something you wrote as suggesting that you sit out games with killed cards/boards, but I think I just misunderstood (looks like you said you'd sit out OP's game like other people sit out games with killed cards/boards).

Nothing wrong with having preferences. My issues have all been with the technical merit of your claims—specifically, that killed boards/cards are equivalent to wild cards and that not being able to calculate win probability on the openers makes a game not poker.

 

[ekricket]

I interpreted something you wrote as suggesting that you sit out games with killed cards/boards, but I think I just misunderstood (looks like you said you'd sit out OP's game like other people sit out games with killed cards/boards).

Nothing wrong with having preferences. My issues have all been with the technical merit of your claims—specifically, that killed boards/cards are equivalent to wild cards and that not being able to calculate win probability on the openers makes a game not poker.

Ok. Do you have any feedback for the OP other than your clearly stated opinion many times that you don’t like wild cards? Any way for him to improve this without it?

My opinion is that this is no different than any other circus game where you have many many crazy random variables to account for. It’s just a particularly powerful variable that you have to account for.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Ok. Do you have any feedback for the OP other than your clearly stated opinion many times that you don’t like wild cards? Any way for him to improve this without it?

I left a comment with many criticisms and suggestions early in the thread.

 

[ekricket]

I left a comment with many criticisms and suggestions early in the thread.

As you mentioned in one of your books, people hate new game development. But they got developed and are played now anyway.

 

[Jimulacrum]

As you mentioned in one of your books, people hate new game development. But they got developed and are played now anyway.

It takes a certain adventurous spirit to play a game for money that you've never played before, even for fun.

Lots of people bristle at the idea, but we have that adventurous spirit to thank for every game we play.

 

[MatB]

It takes a certain adventurous spirit to play a game for money that you've never played before, even for fun.

Lots of people bristle at the idea, but we have that adventurous spirit to thank for every game we play.

 

[MatB]

I don’t mind losing money in a game I’m not sure how is played ( e.g. poker in general)

But a wild card is a big no no.

The last time I played with a wild cards was against this huge fish who ‘loves to play bangers’
Aka midnight baseball.
@Goldfish

Great for a one time flip. But not going to sit for an orbit trying to figure how I lose with the nuts.

Keep innovating though. I’ll have my buy in ready

 

[ekricket]

Keep innovating though. I’ll have my buy in ready

That’s my intention, to encourage him instead of just saying “seems stupid”.
Just saying it’s dumb or stupid isn’t very helpful but some people out there have to reply to every thread with whatever just to feel relevant and increase their post count.

I think there may be some potential here if you changed it to like the queen of spades or something or jack of hearts to keep from introducing an 82 card deck like @Jimulacrum mentioned. (52 regular cards plus one that acts like 30.)

 

[MatB]

Stampler?

I think is a circus game I’ve played.

Highest spade in the hole wins half the pot. Or something like that. Cant remember the exact rules

But reasonably popular game. Building on an existing game would make more sense

 

[ekricket]

.

Highest spade in the hole wins half the pot.

Damn thats a powerful card. So if the ace is high and you just luckily get it, you can drive the pot up to huge amounts and are guaranteed half no matter what? That one card beats all the other poker hands and any amount of skill. Remarkable.

 

[CraigT78]

I feel like @Goldfish would like this game. Especially if you start taking cards away.

 

[bergs]

If I didn’t know any better, I’d read this thread and think Kricket is a giant nit.

Sometimes it feels like upndown and ekricket share a login. Can someone check the tower logs? (That’s a “A Few Good Men” reference).

 

[bergs]

Wild cards suck because I can eliminate considerable cards from people’s hands in triple board (derailment) and Scarney and other games, but with a wild card, there is another 5s to make a steel wheel even though I block the natural one with having it in my hand.

I’m bad enough at fading rivers. I don’t need to give people a duplicate of every card in the deck that they can spring on me. How do I “take into account” that every card in the deck is actually out and available because of the wild card? That’s just nuts.

 

[Goldfish]

I feel like @Goldfish would like this game. Especially if you start taking cards away.

Please, please, please let’s play this next year in Dallas so everyone can see me jump out a window.

 

[Nine_high]

I'm not sure I can get behind the accusation thing, and definitely not the wash deal thing.

I'd do it more like the 7-2 game. Make the joker dead. Deal normally. If you win the pot and show the joker, everyone pays you off 5bb or whatever. If the joker appears on the board, it's still dead, play on. Or you could deal a second river, or just replace it immediately. IDK.

I'd also probably change the name

 

[ekricket]

If I didn’t know any better, I’d read this thread and think Kricket is a giant nit.

Sometimes it feels like upndown and ekricket share a login. Can someone check the tower logs? (That’s a “A Few Good Men” reference).

I’m pretty sure you and @BigSlick4523 are the same person, just two sides of gematria with a shared login.

I would say based on your last few months play that maybe you should nit up.

 

[BigSlick4523]

I’m pretty sure you and @BigSlick4523 are the same person, just two sides of gematria with a shared login.

all I know is that G word is the real deal its a wild world we live in Merry Christmas to all

 

[ekricket]

all I know is that G word is the real deal its a wild world we live in Merry Christmas to all

Is this you @bergs?

 

[BigSlick4523]

.

Damn thats a powerful card. So if the ace is high and you just luckily get it, you can drive the pot up to huge amounts and are guaranteed half no matter what? That one card beats all the other poker hands and any amount of skill. Remarkable.

this is why I love that sweet game we call SOHE lol if you got the nuggets in 1 hand and drive that pot up LOL and if you happen to have the best of both worlds it is a great feeling

 

[Samuel]

Stampler?

I think is a circus game I’ve played.

Highest spade in the hole wins half the pot. Or something like that. Cant remember the exact rules

But reasonably popular game. Building on an existing game would make more sense

We play highest spade in the hole gets half from time to time for 7 card stud variants, we call that "Chicago" (e.g. jacks & low, chicago), We've also played second highest spade gets half (if only one of the players at showdown has a spade, that gets half), low diamond gets half, second lowest diamond gets half, queen of spades up kills the game (black mariah), etc.

 

[MatB]

ok I found the @abby99 game card for Stampler and Stumpler !

and of course not pictured is a 6 card Stampler.
Can't remember if I enjoyed playing it or not.



Basically BiGO with a twist.