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2nd half of the challenge kicked off today. Small win ~$27k for DNegs. Still stuck ~$743K. Its going to be an interesting finish!
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Daniel Negreanu vs Doug Polk (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter RainmanTrail
- Start date
At first I was surprised. Takes massive balls to be down almost a million and continue. But then I realized how massive dnegs ego is and there is no chance he'd quit, even if he was down 2 million. Makes me wonder why they even put that option in there. Why not just do 25k hands and that's it.
SpaceMonkey420
Full House
It’s not a big ego. One million is not a lot of money. Hate to break it to you.
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fair enough. forgot I'm used to peasant stakes over here. almost 20 buyins then. If someone was playing 2/5, this would mean they'd be down 10,000. Not unheard of, but still substantial. It would be at this point you would consider going down in stakes or doing some serious studying. Based on dnegs blow-ups, I dont think he is shrugging his shoulders and saying "oh well". He is clearly frustrated and the money is playing a factor. Would he blowing up like this if it was 1/3? Probably not.
I said before in a previous post that Phil Galfond had a PLO challenge (25k hands) where we has down 1 million and came back to win by only $1,000. So its no doubt possible. But comparing Phil Galfond's online HU-PLO game to dnegs online HU-NLH game isnt even close.
I think its extremely naive to think ego isnt at play here. Ego's come out in the smallest of stakes. Now you factor in the stakes and a person who you've been beefing with for years. Dnegs (and doug) have made it clear its personal. I mean, dnegs gets his panties in a twist when someone on the rail makes fun of him online, let alone this. Who knows, maybe vegan-rage is a thing.
RichMahogany
Straight Flush
ekricket
Royal Flush
One of the last games I played in two players got drunk and were arguing over who was the better player. They finally decided that they would put all their money up on one hand and that would decide who the best player was. The hand was to be dealt blind and somehow that would settle once and for all who the better player was.
Are these two still active players? Can you direct me to their current game??
ekricket
Royal Flush
One is, one is not on the invite list anymore. Rule #7, no drunk competitionsAre these two still active players? Can you direct me to their current game??
I can’t imagine anything positive ever coming from those.
Jesus, the anti-Daniel biases are big here. Some of you would save us all time if you just posted I HATE DANIEL and were done with it.
If you listen to his podcast, you'll hear why he's not quitting. It comes down to three reasons, I think.
1) He thinks he's getting better - And he should be, right? He's focused on this style of poker for what, a couple of months? He feels like he's learning every day, he thinks he's much better than he was when he started this challenge, so yeah, as a competitor with an ego, he things he can come back.
2) He's had bad luck. Whatever that stat is that measures where the money goes after two guys are all in with cards still to come - its a stat that basically measures luck - he's on the wrong side of that. I don't know the exact numbers, but I think its in the range of 5-10 buyins. So he is measurably behind in luck, - which should balance out in the long run. But more importantly, it shows he hasn't played as badly as it looks.
3) He doesn't want to let down people who bet on him. Call that ego or call that niceness or whatever you want. But people bet on him to win. If he wimps out halfway through to save himself from losing too much, he's screwing over all the people who believed in him.
And, for whatever it's worth, he seems to be enjoying this new kind of competition. He says he really likes this heads up thing and he doesn't want to stop with Polk at 25k hands. And maybe he'll have more challenegs like Galfond has done.
If you listen to his podcast, you'll hear why he's not quitting. It comes down to three reasons, I think.
1) He thinks he's getting better - And he should be, right? He's focused on this style of poker for what, a couple of months? He feels like he's learning every day, he thinks he's much better than he was when he started this challenge, so yeah, as a competitor with an ego, he things he can come back.
2) He's had bad luck. Whatever that stat is that measures where the money goes after two guys are all in with cards still to come - its a stat that basically measures luck - he's on the wrong side of that. I don't know the exact numbers, but I think its in the range of 5-10 buyins. So he is measurably behind in luck, - which should balance out in the long run. But more importantly, it shows he hasn't played as badly as it looks.
3) He doesn't want to let down people who bet on him. Call that ego or call that niceness or whatever you want. But people bet on him to win. If he wimps out halfway through to save himself from losing too much, he's screwing over all the people who believed in him.
And, for whatever it's worth, he seems to be enjoying this new kind of competition. He says he really likes this heads up thing and he doesn't want to stop with Polk at 25k hands. And maybe he'll have more challenegs like Galfond has done.
I hate dnegs. Used to love him, but he is completely insufferable now. I'm not saying Doug is some God, but between the 2, I prefer Doug.
No doubt he is smart, and I'm sure he is getting better. But is he going to get better enough to beat doug in 12,500 hands? My money says probably not. Even if they end up playing 50k hands, I think its a tall order.
Of course. Everyone would agree he has been running bad, even Doug. To me this is more about having the mental fortitude to come back. He has to run well AND play very well. This goes back to my earlier point on dnegs vs galfond. Galfond was running terrible, but if anyone could come back it was him. I dont get warm and fuzzy's thinking about dnegs being able to do this.
Fair point, didnt think about that. Still think it was silly to put that option in there.
Again, fair enough, he's having fun so he wants to keep going. But it also points how far behind he is.
I don't hate dnegs, really. I used to like him and his public table tv persona, but I started to sour on him when he started to vlog and you got to see the real life person. He just comes off as an entitled whiny bitch IMO. Is he still a good poker player, sure, but his childish ranting outbursts are just off putting. If you can't handle bad beats, get the fuck out of poker. If you can't handle criticism, retire from public life. He went from someone I'd like to hang out with to someone I'd actively avoid. Polk just comes across as a fun person who does not take shit seriously. Just how I see it. And its a shame because kid poker used to be a favorite of mine.
So you don't yell swears at your computer when you take a bad beat online?
I know I do, though I don't bat an eyelash when playing live in a casino.
there is something about online poker that is more tilting. maybe its the frequency of hands, maybe because you cant see the person so it appears its going into some void. who knows. But I'm the same way. We've seen Daniel run terrible in HSP and let it roll off his shoulder (for the most part, dude is human after all). But then Doug gives him some bad beats and its mf-ing-cocksucking. this is why I think online pro's are a different breed.
Kain8
Flush
Daniel's impetuous statements from the past of how he can roll into a 25/50 ring game online and crush was the first sign of his foolhardiness. He thinks he can just dominate NLH for any stakes with very little / no study. Doug tried to make things fairer by offering a second game to be played but to Daniel's ego, that would be admitting weakness. To him, he has to be playing against the absolute peak of strength in someone's game because he thinks he can handle it, and actually overcome his opponent if they play long enough. Daniel may feel that his adjustments to his opponent's game is enough to bridge the skill gap he may initially face, but halfway through, it's not coalescing at all like he may think it will.
I hope Doug can take Daniel for a couple million when all is said and done.
I hope Doug can take Daniel for a couple million when all is said and done.
Daniel said that his strength is full ring live mixed games. He said if a second game were added, he’d just have to learn that game heads-up too.
Well, half the games being something both would have to learn (although Daniel would have just to adapt to it being heads-up since he plays everything, contrary to Doug, who would have to learn the whole game) is better than 100% played at a game he is clearly inferior.
Kain8
Flush
Of that there is no question at all. That's a challenge I would love to watch. Just a murderer's row of mixed game veterans playing on some site (maybe something in the works with GGPoker when Daniel is done this challenge) and seeing how they all fare against one another.
Daniel trying to promote and hype up limit mixed games would put him back in my good books for sure.
That's why The Players Championship 50K is my favorite WSOP event. Don't care much for all Limit though, I think it's better to mix up big bets as well.
this would have been interesting. mixed games HU online in addtion to the NLH. Both doug and daniel would need to learn that, dont think either have that mastered. oddly enough upswing has a poker coach for mixed games soooo
as someone who has tried mixed HU online, boy is it weird...
I’ve played HORSE where there are a couple of big bet games. It feels very strange to me. I’m pretty sure the WSOP dealers choice tournaments have big bet mixed with limit, and maybe some of the other tourneys do too, like 8-game?
I'm not sure about the Dealer's Choice event but the Players Championship have both Limit and Big Bet games. I can see why it might seem weird but have played many time this game in meet-ups, it's the most fun game for me by a mile. And that comes from someone who likes every game but Limit Holden, LOL!
Two simple stories from my own experience.
I attended Shorin Ryu Kenshin Kan classes twice a week for a while in my late twenties. Afterwards, I would go for a four mile run, eventually working my way up to eight miles. (I use to run 40 to 45 miles a week in my early twenties.) My Father always admired my endurance and wanted to see me run in a half marathon. Fathers being the way they are in pushing their children, left the local paper on my coffee table opened to the sports page. He had circled the upcoming half marathons.
I called to let him know that I signed up. Yes, this was kind of a big deal to him. My folks made the trip the following week, staying overnight at my place the day before the race. Like a lot of doting Moms, my Mother did my laundry, bleaching my socks. My father and I departed for the race later that morning. When we arrived, I discovered my socks were not completely dry.
Being inexperienced, I took off strong from the starting line, leading the race the first three miles, at which point two runners overtook me. At around eight miles, the bottom of my feet started to burn and blister. I fought the escalating pain and discomfort for the next three miles. Still in third, I began to think it was ridiculous to continue. I shut out the pain and put the negative thoughts to the back of my mind. A few minutes later, my will slipped. Just as I slowed down to a stop, the woods to my right ended and I could see a railroad trestle off in the distance. I remember the organizers telling the other runners that the finish line was not far from the trestle. I took a look behind me and saw that I had a comfortable lead over fourth place. I decided that come hell or high water, I was not going to quit and lose my spot after completing 12 miles.
The second story occurred three years ago. My poker consisted of a low stake home game with the same loose players. It had been some time since I played poker at the casino. Business took me out of town, which gave me the opportunity to play $1/$3 at the local casino. I dumped/lost $800 in the first two hours. Sure, I could have thrown in the towel, but I knew I could also switch up my play and get down to business. 7 hours later, I cashed out down $100.
Sometimes, it is not about ego. It is about the competitive nature of the event you are in and the belief in your own abilities to turn things around that causes you to persevere when you are down or behind.
I attended Shorin Ryu Kenshin Kan classes twice a week for a while in my late twenties. Afterwards, I would go for a four mile run, eventually working my way up to eight miles. (I use to run 40 to 45 miles a week in my early twenties.) My Father always admired my endurance and wanted to see me run in a half marathon. Fathers being the way they are in pushing their children, left the local paper on my coffee table opened to the sports page. He had circled the upcoming half marathons.
I called to let him know that I signed up. Yes, this was kind of a big deal to him. My folks made the trip the following week, staying overnight at my place the day before the race. Like a lot of doting Moms, my Mother did my laundry, bleaching my socks. My father and I departed for the race later that morning. When we arrived, I discovered my socks were not completely dry.
Being inexperienced, I took off strong from the starting line, leading the race the first three miles, at which point two runners overtook me. At around eight miles, the bottom of my feet started to burn and blister. I fought the escalating pain and discomfort for the next three miles. Still in third, I began to think it was ridiculous to continue. I shut out the pain and put the negative thoughts to the back of my mind. A few minutes later, my will slipped. Just as I slowed down to a stop, the woods to my right ended and I could see a railroad trestle off in the distance. I remember the organizers telling the other runners that the finish line was not far from the trestle. I took a look behind me and saw that I had a comfortable lead over fourth place. I decided that come hell or high water, I was not going to quit and lose my spot after completing 12 miles.
The second story occurred three years ago. My poker consisted of a low stake home game with the same loose players. It had been some time since I played poker at the casino. Business took me out of town, which gave me the opportunity to play $1/$3 at the local casino. I dumped/lost $800 in the first two hours. Sure, I could have thrown in the towel, but I knew I could also switch up my play and get down to business. 7 hours later, I cashed out down $100.
Sometimes, it is not about ego. It is about the competitive nature of the event you are in and the belief in your own abilities to turn things around that causes you to persevere when you are down or behind.
Since we're in the Daniel thread, I remember this from the WSOP, either 2019 or 2018. Daniel said his strategy for one of the dealer's choice tournaments was to call Holdem. Even though it wasn't his best game, he figured that the mixed games specialists at his table would be least comfortable with it, so maybe he could find an edge calling that against them. Not sure how it worked out for him, except that he didn't win a bracelet in that one.
Personally, I have a hard time, after grinding limit games for an hour, to increase my stack by 20% (which is a great result) to then turn around and risk the whole shebang on a single hand of NLHE or PLO. But we've all got to adapt, I guess.
Kain8
Flush
The problem that I encountered back in my hey days of online poker is that you play the 8-game spread which has NLH and PLO in it. You can beat the ever living snot out of a game for 4-6 different limit rounds and then have your entire effort decimated by a bad run out in one big bet hand.
Sites changed that eventually so that there was a cap on the amount lost in any one hand in the big bet games. That just devolved into players betting the cap whenever they were remotely strong. That in turn really defeats the purpose of having big bet poker in the rotation in the first place.
Mixing betting structures in one cash game does not lend itself to be cohesive to the players by and large. If you want to play big bet, play big bet. Same goes for limit.
Sites changed that eventually so that there was a cap on the amount lost in any one hand in the big bet games. That just devolved into players betting the cap whenever they were remotely strong. That in turn really defeats the purpose of having big bet poker in the rotation in the first place.
Mixing betting structures in one cash game does not lend itself to be cohesive to the players by and large. If you want to play big bet, play big bet. Same goes for limit.
Kain8
Flush
Of all the tournament formats that we have run locally, I like our HORS series best -- alternating levels of No-Limit Hold'em, Pot-Limit Omaha Hi/Lo, Fixed-Limit Razz, and 7-Card Stud 8. A complete mental gear change every level, and really rewards those with extensive poker skill and experience.
BukNaked36
Straight
What I don't like about Negreanu is that he was obviously putting out a fake public persona for years and just a shameless self promoter.
Hey, I'm happy-go-lucky Kid Poker! I never get upset! I control the mental game through meditation, diet and an overall healthy lifestyle! I'm going to be suuuper chummy with you at the table so I can get reads and take your money!
I actually like him better now that he is just letting it all hang out. Profanity laced tirades? Now you're speaking my language brother.
Hey, I'm happy-go-lucky Kid Poker! I never get upset! I control the mental game through meditation, diet and an overall healthy lifestyle! I'm going to be suuuper chummy with you at the table so I can get reads and take your money!
I actually like him better now that he is just letting it all hang out. Profanity laced tirades? Now you're speaking my language brother.
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