Do Fake Top Hat and Cane chips exist? (1 Viewer)

[Jake14mw]

Hi all,

When you find chips that have the Top Hat and Cane mold, are you safe in knowing they are Paulson chips or are there fakes out there that you need to be careful of? Thanks.

 

[GianThaMan]

There are injection molded Top Hat no cane chips, but there aren’t any Top Hat and Cane fakes out there, definitely not any clay ones, at least.

 

[FordPickup92]

Christy and jones arent fake, they are just pre Paulson, but still hat and (long) cane

 

[Eloe2000]

It isn't the Paulson brand that makes the chips valuable, but the process and the actual physical chip. We would be happy to by compressed clay chips from anyone who makes them, but right now that is only Paulson and CPC. And a chipper will be able to tell a compressed clay chip from something else immediately.

 

[Darson]

Easy to tell when in hand but looking at a photo, it may be more challenging.

Paulson protect their trademark hat and cane rigorously so it's unlikely that you will find hat and cane chips that are not Paulson. There may be some ceramics printed with the hat and cane that slipped under the radar but I would not expect these to be common and are obviously not clay chips when in hand. However a blurry eBay photo may fool you.

There are many Paulson chips made without the hat and cane - most commonly, the casino house molds but they also made a bunch of others like the Pauson Chis mold and suits mold which i don't have the knowledge to cover.

 

[JMC9389]

There are (very poor quality) Chinese fakes out there with four hats and canes surrounding the outside ring, but as far as actual compressed clay chips, I don't believe so.

 

[CrazyEddie]

Casino chips are deliberately made to be difficult to counterfeit. It's possible for someone to make convincing fake Paulsons, but it would be very difficult and expensive. It would be easier to make obvious fake Paulsons, although the faker would still need to contract with a plastic injection molding company, which is still somewhat difficult and expensive.

You might not be able to spot an obvious fake without seeing them in person. You might be fooled by a fake even in person if you didn't know what to look for, but after handling a number of real ones you'd quickly become familiar with their distinctive characteristics.

I don't think there's been a significant number of fake chips in the collectors' market, so even though it's conceivable, it's unlikely and so as a practical matter you shouldn't worry about it.

I would be wary of ignorant eBay sellers who have no idea what they have on their hands and are misrepresenting an obviously NOT-Paulson chip as a Paulson chip. For example, Item # MD-75 on this page https://www.antiquegamblingchips.com/molddesign_manmade.htm isn't a Paulson chip, and isn't even an attempt at being a fake Paulson chip, but a lot of people who don't know any better might think it was and claim so on their eBay listing.

 

[Darthhoodie]

Maybe they exist but I have never seen any fake pulsation chips around. There are quite a few different chip molds that use the top hat and cane logo in some way. Here are a few different molds that are all paulson chips. These all use the top hat and cane in some way and are all real but different.

 

[CrazyEddie]

Should also point out that while it's hard to make fake Paulsons, it's not at all hard to take Paulsons and make them into fake casino chips. In other words, take a real Paulson, pull out the inlay, and add a new label that makes it look like something else.

As before, it won't fool anyone who knows what to look for, but someone who's not very familiar with the particular types of casino chips out there and who doesn't do any research before buying could get fooled into buying a "rare" chip that's actually just a relabeled common chip.

 

[CHP TD]

what about that guy who got those fake paulsons made up by the chinese and used in that tourney in the borgota.

 

[CrazyEddie]

I'm not sure it's been reported what the fake chips were like, how they were made, or where they came from.

I think the most likely story is that the scammer made fake labels and relabeled real Paulsons solids to become the Borgata tourney chips, which were also solids. So nobody made fake Paulsons, they just switched labels. If the relabel job were done really well it might be hard to spot if you weren't looking for it, but even so it was spotted.

If you've got a more definitive source let me know.

 

[BGinGA]

They were china clays.

 

[CrazyEddie]

China clays with THC molds? Well, that's impressive. I guess with a couple million in prize money at stake it might be worth the investment.

By any chance do you have a link to a source about that?

 

[BGinGA]

There's a thread here on pcf with some links and pics.

 

[CrazyEddie]

For anyone else interested: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...king-paulson-chips-for-the-home-market.11720/

That thread has pictures and video regarding the fake Maryland Live chips from an incident in 2014. The news reports, video, and photos document that a fraudster bought pretty convincing Paulson replicas "on the Internet", which probably means "from China" - the video shows barrels of fake chips still in the wrappers and boxes from a factory. The replicas look very good in the pictures, but they were only able to get a modest quantity of them past the casino staff ($4000 worth of fake $100 chips).

Also, this news report about the Borgata tournament incident in 2015 says "Investigators said the four-flusher purchased the chips online from a Chinese manufacturer and then put a counterfeit Borgata logo on them."

 

[BGinGA]

I recall even seeing a photo of the fake Borgata tourney chips in an alibaba listing at one point.

 

[LeGold]

Regarding those Maryland hundos... I wonder whether that video from the news report shows actual real hundos? They just look too real.

 

[CrazyEddie]

I recall even seeing a photo of the fake Borgata tourney chips in an alibaba listing at one point.

Review: "Great seller, prompt shipment, easy to work with. Chips were more expensive than anticipated, as I had to pay half a million dollars in criminal restitution."

 

[CrazyEddie]

Regarding those Maryland hundos... I wonder whether that video from the news report shows actual real hundos? They just look too real.

The side paint is too consistent. Each one looks like a perfect "X" and is exactly the same on each chip. You get that kind of consistency with injection molding, but not with compression molding.

 

[BGinGA]

Regarding those Maryland hundos... I wonder whether that video from the news report shows actual real hundos? They just look too real.

They were pretty good fakes, for being non-Paulson based chips (converted air-brushed chips can appear incredibly real). Perfectly-centered "inlays" and over-enthusuiastic cross-hatching were the two biggest give-aways on the Maryland cc chips.

 

[LeGold]

Right, I see that now.

 

[wolfpack]

just from the photo they look like nexgen pros as far as the material

 

[GianThaMan]

I think the biggest issue with them would have been that they weren’t worn enough, casino used $100s would not still have sharp edges, at least not in those quantities. Even if they did though, the edges are too glossy, and they don’t have any lathe marks, but that’s more of a fine detail.

Edit: I just looked at pics of the originals, edge spot colors are pretty off too. That’s a pretty dead giveaway.

 

[BELGRADE]

 

[KarateMaster72]

Wow!

 

[guyfleegman]

Let’s get an Etsy shop started for CUSTOM Paulsons!