Drawmaha Procedure Questions (with a poll) (1 Viewer)

[Moxie Mike]

After playing Drawmaha at the Mixed Game Festival this week, they were doing things differently to the point where I now question if we have been incorrectly dealing the game all this time.

We'd always dealt the draw cards AFTER the flop action completes but BEFORE the turn card is placed. We'd also capped the number of cards a player can draw at 2... and if we're more than 5-handed to the drawing round we cap the draw option to one card to preserve the stub.

In Vegas, their procedures were different. After the flop action was completed, they were burning and placing the turn card face up on the board before the drawing round.

They also were allowing players to draw up to three, meaning that the stub would often run out of cards before the river card could be placed or before everyone could complete their draw. So when the stub went down to one card*, the dealer would have no option but to shuffle the discards in order to finish the hand.

So which version is correct? I learned of Draw2maha while at one of Bill's meetups... so tagging @detroitdad for perspective.

*What is the logic of not dealing the last card in the stub? We always run the stub dry before shuffling the discards.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

If you put the turn out first and it has a distinguishing mark, observant players have plenty of time to alter what they draw based on additional knowledge. This somewhat defeats the purpose of burning before the turn if you're doing that (and can still be a problem even if you aren't burning).

I always play Draw2maha with 6-8 players, Drawmaha (3 max draw) with 5 or fewer. Seven- or eight-handed it's not hard to run out of cards, and I do two things (both learned at meetups) to mitigate. First, I don't usually burn in Drawmaha; this keeps more fresh cards in the stub. Second, I will keep the preflop discards separate from the draw discards, and I use the preflop discards first if the stub runs out.

The preflop discards were mucked with no knowledge of the flop, so they're a little fresher than post-flop discards. Also, the cards are unknown to all players still in the hand; that's not true for the draw discards.

 

[Moxie Mike]

If you put the turn out first and it has a distinguishing mark, observant players have plenty of time to alter what they draw based on additional knowledge. This somewhat defeats the purpose of burning before the turn if you're doing that (and can still be a problem even if you aren't burning).

I think there's been a misunderstanding. In Vegas, the dealer 'placed' the turn card face up. The situation you described of a potentially marked card is a non-issue.

I always play Draw2maha with 6-8 players, Drawmaha (3 max draw) with 5 or fewer. Seven- or eight-handed it's not hard to run out of cards, and I do two things (both learned at meetups) to mitigate. First, I don't usually burn in Drawmaha; this keeps more fresh cards in the stub. Second, I will keep the preflop discards separate from the draw discards, and I use the preflop discards first if the stub runs out.

What do you mean by 'preflop discards'? Draw2maha only has one round of draws, which occurs after the flop.

 

[RocAFella1]

What do you mean by 'preflop discards'?

Preflop folds (nits)

 

[Schmendr1ck]

I think there's been a misunderstanding. In Vegas, the dealer 'placed' the turn card face up. The situation you described of a potentially marked card is a non-issue.

Oh! Yes, you said "face up" and I skimmed right over that important tidbit.

I've always played draw first, then turn. I think seeing the turn first would have an impact on how people chose to draw, but shouldn't impact action at all.

Don't love it, don't hate it - just different than what I'm used to.

What do you mean by 'preflop discards'? Draw2maha only has one round of draws, which occurs after the flop.

Right, but there's also a round of preflop betting, and players sometimes fold right?

(Except at meetups of course.)

 

[bergs]

Casinos that spread Dramaha will make players declare their draws with the cards face down in front of them, dealer verbally confirms the draw qty, and puts out the turn, then immediately deals the draws.

It ensures that the turn card is fresh and not someone’s discard from that round. Bellagio, Resorts Worls, Talking Stick, Gila River, Aria all do it this way.

We probably should do it this way to ensure a clean turn but it’s more for the self dealt dealers to do.

 

[bergs]

WSOP does it this way at 20/40 mixed as well.

 

[Moxie Mike]

Right, but there's also a round of preflop betting, and players sometimes fold right?

No worries - I didn't realize you meant the preflop folds when you referred to them as 'discards'.

 

[Moxie Mike]

I've always played draw first, then turn. I think seeing the turn first would have an impact on how people chose to draw, but shouldn't impact action at all.

Don't love it, don't hate it - just different than what I'm used to.

With our table, we had the dealer(s) do things our way. But every dealer that rotated in wanted to execute the way they know - which was to place the turn first.

It got me thinking since I'd never played the game that wat before. Knowing the turn card before the draw would absolutely alter a player's drawing strategy.

So I was wondering which way is 'correct'.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Casinos that spread Dramaha will make players declare their draws with the cards face down in front of them, dealer verbally confirms the draw qty, and puts out the turn, then immediately deals the draws.

It ensures that the turn card is fresh and not someone’s discard from that round. Bellagio, Resorts Worls, Talking Stick, Gila River, Aria all do it this way.

We probably should do it this way to ensure a clean turn but it’s more for the self dealt dealers to do.

Okay - that's functionally the same then.

In that case, I can get on board with dealing the turn first to ensure that it's clean (or using the last card in the stub as the turn).

 

[Machine]

Casinos that spread Dramaha will make players declare their draws with the cards face down in front of them

This is the proper way to do it.

Everyone declares by placing the burn cards out in front of them, they can't alter or touch the cards, then burn, turn deal out the draw cards.

 

[Rhodeman77]

No matter how you do it, the turn and river need to be from the stub. I learned from @Hornet and they would put out the turn and river before draw phase happened to make sure they were clean cards and it makes sense to me. We put dealer buttons on those cards to cover them well. Otherwise make sure the max draw is limited that there will be at least 2 cards left in the stub for the turn and river.

 

[bergs]

No matter how you do it, the turn and river need to be from the stub. I learned from @Hornet and they would put out the turn and river before draw phase happened to make sure they were clean cards and it makes sense to me. We put dealer buttons on those cards to cover them well. Otherwise make sure the max draw is limited that there will be at least 2 cards left in the stub for the turn and river.

Only danger here is the river back is marked and players know what it is during turn action. This is actually an argument for burning during these games and using the shuffled burns as the river (still clean cards and less likely to be identifiable via marks).

 

[FordPickup92]

We ended up correcting our dealers in Vegas:
Burn, flop, burn, draws,  turn

in the event the stub was completely used, the 2 burn cards were available for a river, or if necessary, turn and river

 

[FordPickup92]

We ended up correcting our dealers in Vegas:
Burn, flop, burn, draws,  turn

in the event the stub was completely used, the 2 burn cards were available for a river, or if necessary, turn and river

Also this

Casinos that spread Dramaha will make players declare their draws with the cards face down in front of them, dealer verbally confirms the draw qty, and puts out the turn, then immediately deals the draws.

 

[suchj0sh]

I’ve seen y’all talk about this game a lot on here, but never really looked into it until this thread. Do y’all play this High for both sides? I assume you could also play an Omaha hi/draw low version too, correct? Sounds dizzying tho

 

[FordPickup92]

I’ve seen y’all talk about this game a lot on here, but never really looked into it until this thread. Do y’all play this High for both sides? I assume you could also play an Omaha hi/draw low version too, correct? Sounds dizzying tho

Hi Omaha hand, hi mit hand

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

I’ve seen y’all talk about this game a lot on here, but never really looked into it until this thread. Do y’all play this High for both sides? I assume you could also play an Omaha hi/draw low version too, correct? Sounds dizzying tho

its a blast, less confusing when you've got the cards in your hand. But for people who aren't used to thinking about split pots and Omaha type games it can be a big wakeup call.

 

[FordPickup92]

There's also countless variants
Drawmaha
Draw2maha
Sviten
Drawmaha0
Drawmaha21
Drawmaha49

 

[bergs]

There's also countless variants
Drawmaha
Draw2maha
Sviten
Drawmaha0
Drawmaha21
Drawmaha49

Dramadugi
Dramaha 2-7

 

[FordPickup92]

Dramadugi
Dramaha 2-7

It never ends

 

[suchj0sh]

Dramadugi
Dramaha 2-7

2-7 is what I had in my mind as being tough to make good scoop hands. I guess low straights and flushes are the best Omaha hands to make.

 

[Moxie Mike]

There's also countless variants
Sviten

What is 'Sviten'?

Dramadugi
Dramaha 2-7

Dramadugi wasn't very popular with my group so it was pulled from the rotation.

Draw2maha A-5 is another good game.

2-7 is what I had in my mind as being tough to make good scoop hands. I guess low straights and flushes are the best Omaha hands to make.

Most of the Draw2maha variants are tough to scoop since they often encourage players to hold low cards in the pocket. The 'easiest' to scoop are probably Draw2maha 'Zero' and regular Draw2maha.

 

[krafticus]

What is 'Sviten'?

Dramadugi wasn't very popular with my group so it was pulled from the rotation.

Draw2maha A-5 is another good game.


Most of the Draw2maha variants are tough to scoop since they often encourage players to hold low cards in the pocket. The 'easiest' to scoop are probably Draw2maha 'Zero' and regular Draw2maha.

Sviten is the same as Drawmaha, except that if you elect to take 1 card, you get it face up. You can elect to keep it, or discard it for another card face down.

 

[k9dr]

Most importantly, mandatory burns

 

[Ben8257]

Sviten is the same as Drawmaha, except that if you elect to take 1 card, you get it face up. You can elect to keep it, or discard it for another card face down.

The answer is... the best circus game possible!!

Hence the greatest game card ever made... by @Machine

 

[JustinInMN]

We ended up correcting our dealers in Vegas:
Burn, flop, burn, draws,  turn

in the event the stub was completely used, the 2 burn cards were available for a river, or if necessary, turn and river

This is how I was taught. We also do a 2 card max and 6-7 players to minimize spending the stub.

 

[detroitdad]

I would play either way. I feel like I would prefer the turn card to be flipped over after the betting/drawing round on the flop.

In draw games, we don't burn. I am not worried about cheaters.

We play draw2maha (draw 2) with 7 to 8 players. We place the turn and river cards out, cap them with chips. This way they are clean cards from the stuf. We keep all pre flop folds separate in case we run out of cards. These are the first to be used if we empty the stub.

If we have 6 players or less you have the option to call drawmaha (draw as many cards as you want). We follow the same procedures as draw2maha.

We play all variants of drawmaha. The common games we play are zero, a-5, and 49.

 

[FordPickup92]

Sviten is the same as Drawmaha, except that if you elect to take 1 card, you get it face up. You can elect to keep it, or discard it for another card face down.

@Moxie Mike Looks like @krafticus explained it... I asked to play it at the mixed game festivals in Vegas and I got shot down
We also did one hand of scarney and everyone at the table either said they were going to sit out or leave the table so that didn't continue either lol

 

[churlbut18]

I’ve seen y’all talk about this game a lot on here, but never really looked into it until this thread. Do y’all play this High for both sides? I assume you could also play an Omaha hi/draw low version too, correct? Sounds dizzying tho

Dramaha with Omaha Hi and Draw Lo is called Dramaha Low (A-5) and is a great game (no qualifier). And yes, there is another variant called Dramaha 2-7 as others have said.