Home Game Ruling on Substantial Action (1 Viewer)

[JustinInMN]

Carry on with 4 cards only.

It’s a home game. Let’s not Re deal and waste time. Someone is stuck already

We play Holdem and pass a button for 1 hand of PLO/orbit. At least once a night someone deals 2 cards when they should deal 4, and no one catches it until action has passed. We play the hand out as Holdem and play PLO the next hand.

So for this, i say play it out and move to the correct game next hand.

I think this is the right answer and I could see this ruling being made in a live room should it happen. The question is does substantial action supercede an error in count of hands regarding when games switch. I don't think there's a ruleset that covers this. But all rulesets do have some version of the following concepts:

* The time to point out an error is when it happens (and this implies a delay may definitely influence a ruling away from technical wording of the rules.)
* Once substantial action applies, the hand is played to completion. (The only provision to stop a hand once substantial action applies would be the extremely rare fouled deck, which I have never seen first hand, but basically discovering missing or duplicate cards during the hand is the only way to foul a deck. I know there are stories of this happening in cardrooms where multiple hole cards made identical flushes for players and so forth. Card rooms that only replace single cards instead of full setups are prone to this error.)

The issue with using the provisions regarding the number of cards as in @BGinGA 's post above is that we are at a point following substantial action. And the importance of substantial action as a protection against angling and reinforcing the concept that delaying the pointing out of an error, probably should in fact supersede rules regarding when to change forms in a mix game. For sure, I would say no one would reasonably call a misdeal after a flop, for example. Otherwise you are opening up an angle where and individual would be incentivized to call a misdeal if he flops poorly, but also incentivized to stay quiet and hope it goes unnoticed if he flops well. To take this further, no one would be suggesting money change hands if this is pointed out after a showdown. So what is the point of no return. I think it's "substantial action" and I could see casino floors ruling as such.

That said, a floor can probably take a more liberal approach as well and go along with @BGinGA 's logic as far as the first round of action in a stretch. But this slope gets slippery to overuse a cliche.

 

[Headhunter13]

Players who folded accepted the action. Get everyone else a fifths card.

I like this idea, but others said that the two who mucked relied on the dealer who stopped dealing after 4 cards.

 

[Headhunter13]

Many actions have been made based on 4 card PLO, no one said anything immediately. Just play an extra normal hand. Why make this more complex?

If I'm ruling anything it's a misdeal, which seems pointless in a home game unless there's some history.

What's Big O btw? - edit: just 5 card hi/lo?

This was my preference, but we're also assuming the raiser also thought it was four card. She could have thought it was Big O, liked her first four and raised at that point. In the end, we just tossed in the cards and redealt.

 

[Headhunter13]

How is the switch of games being announced?

Every time the button crosses the dealer, it's a new game and the seat next to the dealer puts a placard with the new game on the table. The placard was there, but don't think it was announced. FWIW, we had a substitute dealer that night.

 

[Headhunter13]

Play a hand of PLO8.

Too much dislike of PLO8 for that suggestion to ever fly ... albeit a reasonable one

 

[Headhunter13]

We usually have the opposite happen and deal an extra card (5th) in 4 card PLO. Usually is caught mid-deal of the 5th card and we will decide to either play 5 card PLO or an extra hand of BigO (we don’t want to waste the time of a re-deal).

I would say play the hand as PLO. None of the players were paying enough attention during the deal or during the first couple players action to now get to make a stink that it should be BigO.

Dealing too many cards in PLO also happens regularly. Usually we just grab the extra cards and use them as the board (random is random).

 

[Headhunter13]

Carry on with 4 cards only.

It’s a home game. Let’s not Re deal and waste time. Someone is stuck already

You didn't have to out me like that!

 

[MatB]

You didn't have to out me like that!

Please.

Only time I’ve seen you lose money is when chips fall on the floor

 

[CraigT78]

Home game:

First choice is continue with this round as PLO.

Second choice is if the folds are not intermixed, deal everyone a fifth card. If they are, continue as PLO.

Misdeal - not at a home game.