Ever fold 2nd nuts to a min raise? (1 Viewer)

[Josh Kifer]

Have I? Yes. Would I here? No. Really the only time are those moments it's painfully obvious. This isnt painful enough to count....

 

[DrStrange]

I have folded a second nut flush to a min raise by a nut peddling, passive villain, No chance he is raising anything weaker than my king high flush. But that was specifically villain dependent.

I could make the same sort of decision with a dummy end straight too. Say a board like K Q J T and I have the nine for a second nut straight but villain only needs a naked ace to hold the nut.

And second nut lows are pretty easy to fold if you have no hope of making a high. Again depending on the villain.

 

[ImCrossland]

You have $80+ in with $120 behind facing a $50 raise. Only leaves you $70. No brainer. Jam and rebuy if he has the 1 combo that beats you, that's poker. Can't be scared of monsters under the bed.

At a minimum, you have to call. Hell, even if I knew for a fact that he had KK I'd still might call.

Plus, there is no better feeling in the world than when you call somebody and they don’t have sh*ttttttttt!

Some asshole tried to do it to me as soon as I sat down at a table a few months ago and I got that “feeling” that he messing with me. Little did he know, the only thing I hate more than a table bully is my own money.

Called him all the way down. He put me all-in on the River ($400 in total), and I called with Queen high. He had to flip over and showed 9 high. I flipped over Queen high after and the table lost their minds. Guy to my left yelled “Yeah, table change please” Best moment of my poker life (until last Saturday topped it).

Finally, what the hell are you doing playing that hand if you’re only willing to call the River with quads or better? If he has you beat here after you boat up, go ahead and send those chips down stream.

 

[toothpic]

Plus, there is no better feeling in the world than when you call somebody and they don’t have sh*ttttttttt!

Some asshole tried to do it to me as soon as I sat down at a table a few months ago and I got that “feeling” that he messing with me. Little did he know, the only thing I hate more than a table bully is my own money.

Called him all the way down. He put me all-in on the River ($400 in total), and I called with Queen high. He had to flip over and showed 9 high. I flipped over Queen high after and the table lost their minds. Guy to my left yelled “Yeah, table change please” Best moment of my poker life (until last Saturday topped it).

Finally, what the hell are you doing playing that hand if you’re only willing to call the River with quads or better? If he has you beat here after you boat up, go ahead and send those chips down stream.

Switching from that table sounds like a terrible move to me!

 

[Eriks]

I feel waaaay worse folding a winner to a big bluff than calling and losing to a value bet that I perhaps should have folded to

 

[Zajac]

Plus, there is no better feeling in the world than when you call somebody and they don’t have sh*ttttttttt!

Some asshole tried to do it to me as soon as I sat down at a table a few months ago and I got that “feeling” that he messing with me. Little did he know, the only thing I hate more than a table bully is my own money.

Called him all the way down. He put me all-in on the River ($400 in total), and I called with Queen high. He had to flip over and showed 9 high. I flipped over Queen high after and the table lost their minds. Guy to my left yelled “Yeah, table change please” Best moment of my poker life (until last Saturday topped it).

Finally, what the hell are you doing playing that hand if you’re only willing to call the River with quads or better? If he has you beat here after you boat up, go ahead and send those chips down stream.

I called…..but I try it evaluate each street….I don’t believe in “since I called the flop I have to call the river” if I improve

This was a question for all if anyone could fold…I almost did because of villain specific read….

Not sure what your Q high hero call has to do the this specific hand

 

[jpietrella]

I called…..but I try it evaluate each street….I don’t believe in “since I called the flop I have to call the river” if I improve

This was a question for all if anyone could fold…I almost did because of villain specific read….

Not sure what your Q high hero call has to do the this specific hand

If this is the case, how did your evaluation allow you to call this preflop? To me, that's where this hand went awry.

 

[ImCrossland]

I called…..but I try it evaluate each street….I don’t believe in “since I called the flop I have to call the river” if I improve

This was a question for all if anyone could fold…I almost did because of villain specific read….

Not sure what your Q high hero call has to do the this specific hand

I was just going off on a tangent buddy, don’t pay any attention to me.

 

[Zajac]

If this is the case, how did your evaluation allow you to call this preflop? To me, that's where this hand went awry.

I felt he could open with 99 or 1010........then he tightens up after the flop....again I was folding almost the entire time 1st 45 minutes.....occasionally I feel you have to play a hand once in a while if you expect to get any action later.....I was closing the action headsup.....would a fold pre been better...sure....

 

[grebe]

I am not going to post the hand action by action due to how little action there was.....just trying to see if anyone folds this....I thought about it

.50/$1 NLHE 8 handed...effective stacks about $200

OMC is UTG....I have played with him many years...his picture is in the dictionary for OMC

He raises to $7 and it folds around to Hero (BB) with

I call...I could raise or fold also...He isn't raising UTG light tho...so prob not raise

You will not hear me often say this, but FOLD PRE is the way. Against THIS opponent in THIS position, with THIS hand that is easily dominated, what are you doing? So many better places to beat this dude, I let him take it down with his obvious monster, then steal my blind back in two hands.

 

[jpietrella]

I felt he could open with 99 or 1010........then he tightens up after the flop....again I was folding almost the entire time 1st 45 minutes.....occasionally I feel you have to play a hand once in a while if you expect to get any action later.....I was closing the action headsup.....would a fold pre been better...sure....

Well, then it's not a stretch to assume he could open with 88, AKs either. Totally fine playing a hand once in a while but if you play it and nail the board, if this is the range you put him on I don't think fold is an option for a min raise. Even more so I think that makes this a no brainer call. If he has KK good for him.

Also not sure closing the action heads up is a good reason to call, might be another reason to just fold?

 

[Zajac]

You will not hear me often say this, but FOLD PRE is the way. Against THIS opponent in THIS position, with THIS hand that is easily dominated, what are you doing? So many better places to beat this dude, I let him take it down with his obvious monster, then steal my blind back in two hands.

I don't believe I ever said fold pre wasn't a good choice....

 

[grebe]

I don't believe I ever said fold pre wasn't a good choice....

So what are we talking about then?

 

[Zajac]

So what are we talking about then?

The entire thread was to discuss a river decision

 

[jpietrella]

Well, then it's not a stretch to assume he could open with 88, AKs either. Totally fine playing a hand once in a while but if you play it and nail the board, if this is the range you put him on I don't think fold is an option for a min raise. Even more so I think that makes this a no brainer call. If he has KK good for him.

Also not sure closing the action heads up is a good reason to call, might be another reason to just fold?

Also, not to harp but I think I hate the play on every single street here.

1. Preflop, I fold here but OK call
2. Flop: OK now he's over betting and this should solidify the sense that he has a monster? Shouldn't it? I fold again, but OK we call
3. Now we hit our money card and we check it still assuming he has a monster? Bleh.
4. OK so now assuming that we think he might have KK the case K falls and we bet into him knowing that we also may fold if he min raises? Bleh again.

 

[Zajac]

Well, then it's not a stretch to assume he could open with 88, AKs either. Totally fine playing a hand once in a while but if you play it and nail the board, if this is the range you put him on I don't think fold is an option for a min raise. Even more so I think that makes this a no brainer call. If he has KK good for him.

Also not sure closing the action heads up is a good reason to call, might be another reason to just fold?

He absolutely can have AK pre.....just not raising the river

 

[jpietrella]

He absolutely can have AK pre.....just not raising the river

Yeah I guess if then you're gonna just fold to any raise here with the second nuts why are we leading out on the river?

 

[toothpic]

Also, not to harp but I think I hate the play on every single street here.

1. Preflop, I fold here but OK call
2. Flop: OK now he's over betting and this should solidify the sense that he has a monster? Shouldn't it? I fold again, but OK we call
3. Now we hit our money card and we check it still assuming he has a monster? Bleh.
4. OK so now assuming that we think he might have KK the case K falls and we bet into him? Bleh again.

Agreed. While the thread was originally created to debate the river decision, I think a better focus would be to re-evaluate every decision that was made on each street. As played I puke and call the river

 

[jpietrella]

Agreed. While the thread was originally created to debate the river decision, I think a better focus would be to re-evaluate every decision that was made on each street. As played I puke and call the river

Ditto. As played, river decision seems like an easy call even though I guess we're probably beat? We should have found a fold on 2 previous streets but here we are.

 

[bergs]

Only time folding crosses my mind is 8 card Omaha.

 

[Zajac]

Yeah I guess if then you're gonna just fold to any raise here with the second nuts why are we leading out on the river?

I lead out hoping to get value from AK or AA.....after this specific villain in this spot raised.....I felt I was losing

 

[toothpic]

I lead out hoping to get value from AK or AA.....after this specific villain in this spot raised.....I felt I was losing

Do you feel this OMC would over bet the flop with AK?

 

[jpietrella]

I lead out hoping to get value from AK or AA.....after this specific villain in this spot raised.....I felt I was losing

Then why didn't you lead on the turn? OMC can't do this with AK on the flop, right? So has to be AA or KK?

 

[Zajac]

Do you feel this OMC would over bet the flop with AK?

maybe AK or 10 10 and hope I didn't hit a jack in hopes to take it down there

 

[ImCrossland]

I didn’t see it here but you said you’ve played w them for years. You described their play style. Did you ever consider how they viewed your own play style over years of playing together and how that might affect action post-flop?

 

[jpietrella]

maybe AK or 10 10 and hope I didn't hit a jack in hopes to take it down there

Pretty sure the definition of OMC prevents both of these. He'll be tight and passive.

 

[toothpic]

Yea definitely doesn't sound like a textbook OMC to me. I lean even more towards a call now.

 

[Zajac]

Then why didn't you lead on the turn? OMC can't do this with AK on the flop, right? So has to be AA or KK?

I felt if I lead the turn...it says I have a jack and might as well turn my hand over.....he bet pre and the flop was gonna let him continue betting...probably should have lead

 

[Zajac]

I didn’t see it here but you said you’ve played w them for years. You described their play style. Did you ever consider how they viewed your own play style over years of playing together and how that might affect action post-flop?

Not enough apparently

 

[toothpic]

Did you fold the river?