Ever fold 2nd nuts to a min raise? (2 Viewers)

[jpietrella]

I felt if I lead the turn...it says I have a jack and might as well turn my hand over.....he bet pre and the flop was gonna let him continue betting...probably should have lead

I think you did that when you called the $25 on the flop bet

 

[Zajac]

Pretty sure the definition of OMC prevents both of these. He'll be tight and passive.

I could see him C-bet.....but shut it down if it didn't work with both AK and 10 10......once I hit the turn.....I wanted him to bet with only 1 or 2 outs

 

[Zajac]

Did you fold the river?

No....I posted earlier I called and he showed KK

 

[jpietrella]

I could see him C-bet.....but shut it down if it didn't work with both AK and 10 10......once I hit the turn.....I wanted him to bet with only 1 or 2 outs

Then yeah, agree with @toothpic he doesn't sound like a textbook OMC I suppose.

 

[horseshoez]

Done it several times with one actually captured on video one time,

Heroic Fold

 

[ImCrossland]

Done it several times with one actually captured on video one time,

Heroic Fold

HOW TF DID YOU GET ME TWICE ON THIS BULLSHIT

 

[horseshoez]

HOW TF DID YOU GET ME TWICE ON THIS BULLSHIT

 

[grebe]

The entire thread was to discuss a river decision

My point is this: you didnt NEED to be in this decision. Your mistake preflop led to this horrible spot. Your MAIN mistake, albeit less interesting to discuss was preflop. You flop gin and still lose. Exploitatively fold pre here, then raise his BB with any 2 cards and get it back.

Now, would I fold the river? No, probably not. However, I doubt calling this river raise over the long run is negative ev...I am sure it's the opposite. I wouldnt get in the habit of folding to min raises, your odds are just too damn good most of the time.

Now if you want to WIN at poker, go back and analyze your massive leak preflop.

 

[Zajac]

My point is this: you didnt NEED to be in this decision. Your mistake preflop led to this horrible spot. Your MAIN mistake, albeit less interesting to discuss was preflop. You flop gin and still lose. Exploitatively fold pre here, then raise his BB with any 2 cards and get it back.

Now, would I fold the river? No, probably not. However, I doubt calling this river raise over the long run is negative ev...I am sure it's the opposite. I wouldnt get in the habit of folding to min raises, your odds are just too damn good most of the time.

Now if you want to WIN at poker, go back and analyze your massive leak preflop.

Everyone keeps arguing fold pre......I agree and so does everyone else......I made a mistake.....so who are we trying to convince by keep bringing it up? When asked why I did something or what was my thought process...I answered honestly.....never was I trying to argue my play was correct.

 

[jpietrella]

I think you'll find it's because the majority of people think that there's not much to discuss regarding your river decision. Most people are going to say just call and even those that don't are on the fence.

It's much more interesting to discuss your decision making on the other streets since that's what's led to needing to make a no win decision here at the end.

There's a lot that went wrong before this and so there's a lot to go over. If you're strictly looking for an answer to your original question, I think you've already got it.

 

[Zajac]

I think you'll find it's because the majority of people think that there's not much to discuss regarding your river decision. Most people are going to say just call and even those that don't are on the fence.

It's much more interesting to discuss your decision making on the other streets since that's what's led to needing to make a no win decision here at the end.

There's a lot that went wrong before this and so there's a lot to go over. If you're strictly looking for an answer to your original question, I think you've already got it.

Yep.....everyone calls except Poker Zombie

 

[JMC9389]

Yep.....everyone calls except Poker Zombie

Incorrect, I advocated for a shove lol

Full house over full house doesn't really happen too often. Another lens to look through this is that you called an overbet on a board with top pair and 2nd best kicker. When the turn brings in another jack, I'd be looking to get all of my money in at that point.

Regardless of your description of villain and their playing tendencies, in a vacuum, overpairs and even middle pairs can play like this. Aces, kings, queens, even jacks can get tricky here hitting the set and overbet making it look like they're trying to protect a hand that now may be beat on this flop. They could also really be trying to protect 6's, 7's, 9's, 10's, etc. It's villain dependent, but some players may float and overbet AK, AQ suited, KQ suited on this board as well. Hands with jacks are certainly in your calling range, as are open ended straight draws and gutshots that the villain will be charging you to see (9/10, 6/7, 7/9, 6/8, 6/9, etc)

I'm curious as to what you think your perceived image is at this table. Are you passive and loose that could have any hand with an 8 here as well that would call light with second pair on this flop? Call this villain an OMC all you want, but he played you like a fiddle in this hand. Even with you hitting your jack on the turn, there's still a chance that if you're known for loose and sticky play, that his kings may have still been good here.

If he has only overpairs in his range based on your read on him, and only overpairs, I'm still confused by your check on the turn. Don't you want to be getting value out of his two pairs that you now best with your three of a kind? Yes, he hit his one outer on the river, but you let him get there.

 

[grebe]

Everyone keeps arguing fold pre......I agree and so does everyone else......I made a mistake.....so who are we trying to convince by keep bringing it up? When asked why I did something or what was my thought process...I answered honestly.....never was I trying to argue my play was correct.

You are yada yada yada'ing over the best part....youtube clip for reference:

 

[horseshoez]

99% of players in that spot and 99% of the time will call, and 99% of the time you’re going to get paid. These are the situations where you’re rarely losing that much money in the long run. When they show up and you lose money, shouldn’t have any affect on your play or decision making because you won’t be faced with them that many times. Doesn’t need to be dissected and analyzed 50 million ways. You’re calling here and you know it. If it happens 100 times, there’s a VERY good chance that you’re winning at least 90 of them.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Yep.....everyone calls except Poker Zombie

That's only because Poker Zombie gets into this situation a lot.

I called Preflop because I was in the bar getting drinks for the table. They said "action on you!", and I yell back "Call" in the dark. Bringing drinks back to the table, I announce check, then glance at the glance at the flop and my hand. The say it's back on me as I grab my chair so I call.

On the turn, I try figuring out who's in the hand. Seeing it's OMC, I submit to check-folding.

Years of experience here. It's always the right move.


...unless it's not.