JD Jack Detroit Labels - Pros & Cons to murder vs over-label (3 Viewers)

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Hi guys, it’s been a while. Finally got around to labels. I need some advise.


Gear sent me labels for a Murdered project. I've never done this before. After placing some of the first labels on the SY $2 and Paris $2 I noticed I wasn't crazy about how they looked. Gear said since the JD chips don't have a thick laminate I'd want to go with no laminate. But because of that, when I started the project they were telegraphing any little flaw under including the score from the exact blade, any glue residue. Even after burnishing them it still showed the score from the blade. However, if I put the labels over the originals they won't cover up the entire label. Gear suggested I reorder labels and to an over label. Not crazy about ordering labels again but also not sure I want to cover up the edge spots on the Santa Y $2. The edge spots have a ton of character and I'm not crazy about how they look when the label runs all the way to the first outer recessed edge. I have pics of both below. Help me decide. over labels will cover some of the edge spots but will look more quality and not telegraph the flaws from the murder. It's a tradeoff. What would you do?

Murdered SY with labels that telegraph some of the flaws from the murdering process and a view of both recesses, slightly smaller graphic below? However, it's nice that the edge spots are not covered up and the yellow and orange edge spots retain all of their character. I don't have this problem on the Paris $2 with the 3 pink spots further down the thread.

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Or this shot from a testimonial with no murder, smooth surface and no telegraphing of flaws since there was no murder and the original labels are already nice and smooth, only one recess shown instead of two recesses but also covers up a good portion of the yellow and orange spots below. Supports a larger graphic as well compared to the slightly smaller graphic above.

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What would you do? The first with pros and cons or the second with pros and cons? I like everything about the second over-label and I’ve been reassured with no laminates I’ll not get spinners. But I don’t like how the edge spots get slight covered up and looses some of the character. They will look cleaner and better and smoother tho. Help me decide.

Thx.

Here are some shots of the rest of the set for context. And trying to decide on the Paris as well. Same thing. First murder or second over label. At least the edge spots on the Paris won’t be covered if I over-label. Pictured below the murdered chip with replacement. Both recesses are shown and quite a bit of telegraphing from the clan underneath. I wish hear would have explained this more when they helped me order for the first time. I thought murder would better quality look as it was explained to me. What do you guys think? Here you can really see both recessed edges, slightly smaller graphic and the bumps in the label from the murder work that was done, knife scores, residue etc.

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Here below you can really start to see the flaws telegraphing through the first stack of Santa Y Jack quarters. The light is hitting that label well enough where you can see the residue from the original label removal. Even after burnishing with a flat xacto

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When applying the labels you don't need to apply too much pressure. They will stick really well. If you apply too much pressure imperfections will show through.

To be clear, did you use unlaminated? One of the advantages of doing a murder is you can use the more durable laminated inlays. Are you sure you aren't getting glossy and laminated mixed up?
 
When applying the labels you don't need to apply too much pressure. They will stick really well. If you apply too much pressure imperfections will show through.

To be clear, did you use unlaminated? One of the advantages of doing a murder is you can use the more durable laminated inlays. Are you sure you aren't getting glossy and laminated mixed up?
Correction. Spellcheck changed this… “Unlaminated” was recommended by @Gear as a closer match to JD but it’s not shiny enough. Closest tho to JD without laminate. I bet laminate would hide all flaws but Gear suggested unlaminated. Not too happy with the results and the plan tho. Thus this thread to get some advise. Should I change the plan and just over label?
 
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Gear said since the JD chips don't have a thick laminate I'd want to go with no laminate.
Laminated was recommended by @Gear as a closer match to JD but it’s not shiny enough. Closest tho to JD without laminate. I bet laminate would hide all flaws but Gear suggested unlaminated.
I think you are confused about the options we recommended.

We suggested Smooth laminate for these chips because our Thick laminates (Glossy or Matte) are not appropriate for Paulson chips. We have never and would never recommend unlaminated labels for inlay replacement. The labels we sent you (the ones in the photos) are Smooth laminated.
 
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In my mind, the flaws under the labels of the murdered chips are just the shit icing on the poop cake. You could forget about the flaws under; aren't the flaws all around enough?
I guess lots of people don't look closely, and fine for them. But if you're asking my opinion, it's not very often you see an "inlay replacement" that looks good under scrutiny. Whether you're tearing out inlays or milling non-inlaid chips, the end result almost always reveals the story if you look close enough. Personally, I have no interest in modified chips of any sort, but I could live with over-labled. They usually look the least butchered because that's what they are.
Edit - and it's worth adding that Gear is the best. I might not want to do what he does, but if YOU want to do what he does, follow his advice. He's an expert.
 
I think you are confused about the options we recommended.

We suggested Smooth laminate for these chips because our Thick laminates (Glossy or Matte) are not appropriate for Paulson chips. We have never and would never recommend unlaminated labels for inlay replacement. The labels we sent you (the ones in the photos) are Smooth laminated.
My bad. Yes smooth laminate but it’s way too thin and still results in what I’ve described. I’ve never done this before and it is confusing. The purpose of this thread is to get the advise on weather I should abandon the replacement and over label instead. I’m not crazy about how the SY edge spots are covered up. Any opinions on that?
 
In my mind, the flaws under the labels of the murdered chips are just the shit icing on the poop cake. You could forget about the flaws under; aren't the flaws all around enough?
I guess lots of people don't look closely, and fine for them. But if you're asking my opinion, it's not very often you see an "inlay replacement" that looks good under scrutiny. Whether you're tearing out inlays or milling non-inlaid chips, the end result almost always reveals the story if you look close enough. Personally, I have no interest in modified chips of any sort, but I could live with over-labled. They usually look the least butchered because that's what they are.
Edit - and it's worth adding that Gear is the best. I might not want to do what he does, but if YOU want to do what he does, follow his advice. He's an expert.
Thx. I think I’m with you and leaning toward over labels instead. Thanks for the advise. You think the Santa Y chips will look ok with over labels? With the edge spots covered?
 
I hear you and personally I don’t like any covering of the edge spots; I think they’re the soul of the chip. But that’s an opinion that you need to decide for yourself.
 
I hear you and personally I don’t like any covering of the edge spots; I think they’re the soul of the chip. But that’s an opinion that you need to decide for yourself.
I think “in reality” quality and craftsmanship wins over nuance and character. Leaning toward overlables. But I “in theory” I liked the idea of preserving the character and just assumed the labels with smooth laminate would look high quality. They don’t. But no fault to the label makers. It’s due to the fact they’ve been murdered first. You agree?
 
Someone via PM suggested glossy thick labels as a third option after removal. Would solve the telegrap and would’t cover up the edge spots. May just be shinier. A third option. Maybe I could request a sample to test.
 
I think “in reality” quality and craftsmanship wins over nuance and character. Leaning toward overlables. But I “in theory” I liked the idea of preserving the character and just assumed the labels with smooth laminate would look high quality. They don’t. But no fault to the label makers. It’s due to the fact they’ve been murdered first. You agree?
I might be one of the last guys anybody should ask. If I think all altered chips are bad, who cares which I think are less bad?
As a chipper (who might hope to buy these chips one day) I prefer the over label - even though they don't look best, the original chips are unaltered and totally loveable (and rebuyable.)
If I'm playing cards and putting these chips on the felt, I probably actually prefer the inlay removed chips. I 'd think a thicker label (or maybe even two labels to fill the gap) would look better than an overlabel that obscures parts of the edge spot.
 
I might be one of the last guys anybody should ask. If I think all altered chips are bad, who cares which I think are less bad?
As a chipper (who might hope to buy these chips one day) I prefer the over label - even though they don't look best, the original chips are unaltered and totally loveable (and rebuyable.)
If I'm playing cards and putting these chips on the felt, I probably actually prefer the inlay removed chips. I 'd think a thicker label (or maybe even two labels to fill the gap) would look better than an overlabel that obscures parts of the edge spot.
Ah I gotcha. Ideology. Ya I get that. Thick smooth shiny laminate may be the right solution. May be shinier than the JD $1 and JD $5 but maybe that’s the better compromise. Thanks man. And ideologicly speaking, I’m never selling these.
 
Ah I gotcha. Ideology. Ya I get that. Thick smooth shiny laminate may be the right solution. May be shinier than the JD $1 and JD $5 but maybe that’s the better compromise. Thanks man. And ideologicly speaking, I’m never selling these.
If you place the inlays lightly and let it adhere they will stick and you won't see everything come through.
 
Personally, I think you are trying to find flaws and issues with the re-label job.

No chip straight from Paulson is going to be "perfect". I see single chips in my collection that show subtle waves like your photos if I catch the light just right.

I can't feel them and I have to actively search to find the ones that aren't perfectly smooth.

I *over labeled* RHC chips with @Gear labels and have the same results. I can barely make out the edge of the original inlay underneath.

Absolutely nobody in my game who have used any of my chips have ever seen, let alone noticed, anything like that in any of my chips... 4k Paulsons and 16k ASM/CPC.



Sorry to be blunt, but this is a you problem, as in you are the one who sees a problem where there is none.



[EDIT - here's a photo with strong reflected light of a couple random half-barrels of my over-labels. Outside that specific lighting, you'd never know they were over-labels.

AD-over-label-surface.jpg
 
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In summary

- It's my problem, I'm maybe being too picky, also learning (first time)
- not enough solvent (true) working much better with more solvent and more set time
- too much pressure burnishing down the labels. (true) a lighter touch is working better.
- thicker smooth laminate would have fixed everything but I'm stuck with the labels I have. Not sure I'd do these thin smooth laminates again.
- Just stick with the plan and retain the SY $2 edge spots, I may be overthinking the quality and too high of expectations. Choose character over craftsmanship.

Thx guys. I have no choice but to learn from those with more experience than me. And more passion. Appreciate this forum
 
My rules are RHC, just over label, never remove and label. You leave the RHC in it's original shape, no issues with the new label showing the removal damage, and plenty of space so no spinners. It's just never worth it when over labeling gets you pretty good results quicker, cheaper, and safer for the base chip.
 
Appreciate you posting your experience. You’re two steps ahead of me in the journey. Still in the process of murdering my chips, but will be applying similar labels to RHCs. I have some slight gauges from the exacto knife, good lesson on the label pressure when applying.

GL!
 
I have done 500-600 chips with labels from Gear, both milled solids and chips with inlays removed. They were all smooth laminated and never had an issue of the marks from the blade or the glue swirl telegraph onto the label like in the OP.
And I burnished like crazy (even against Gear's recommendation)

I have a Gear sample set that I can send you @OneGearManySpeeds , it has the thick laminate in there as well.
I’m just still a little confused how the glue swirl is visible on the face of a laminated label…just never seen that before.

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