Tourney Pros and cons T5 vs T25 vs T100 (1 Viewer)

[LTrain]

I am finally pulling the trigger on a tournament set and have been pouring over all of the resources here, ultimately becoming more acquainted with all things chips but have only become more confused as to which T level I should go for. I play bar poker with T100 and it seems to work well, I need to pay more attention to structure but I think we color up T100s at the first break and T500s at the second break, leaving T500s in a little long. From what I have seen from most blind structures it seems like T25 and T5 have their color ups spread out a bit better.

What are the pros and cons of each structure?

 

[allforcharity]

If you prefer ex-casino clay chips, then denom availability can factor into play. Sometimes specific denoms that you need might be prohibitively expensive or not exist at all.

I find nothing wrong with T5 or T25 or T(anything) structures and will gladly play them all.

 

[kmccormick100]

No pros to T5 structures.

T25 was the "standard" for a long time that people are used to prior to a lot of tournaments going to a big blind ante structure, which makes T100 simpler with less color ups in most cases

 

[Kentucky]

Really there isn’t a lot of difference between them.

As you probably know, each chip value is 4 or 5x the value of the previous- apart from the reset at 500-1000.

500&1000 are big chips in T5 so you can end up with a lot of change making in the earlier rounds if you don’t have lots of chips to start.

500&1000 are small chips in T100 so you can end up having to do extra color ups. I suspect it’s favored by bar leagues because you can get multiple tables going with fewer chips.

Of course you can get around any of these things by adjusting starting stacks and blind levels etc. and it depends on what size set you want to get and if you plan on running multiple tables Or just one. Mostly players like what they are used to.

 

[GetUrShineBox]

I prefer T100 for these reasons.

1. Most casinos use this structure
2. I use 5’s and 25’s in cash games so prefer the higher denominations tournaments can offer.
3. If you only have one set of chips for cash and tournaments then a tournament 5 or 25 can “find” its way into a cash game and throw the entire bank off.

 

[BGinGA]

Search for thread title "T-base preference" -- lots of info in that thread regarding pros/cons.

Summary:

T.25-base is the most efficient.
T1- and T5-base are mostly disliked.
T25-base is still the most popular.
T100-base and T500-base are both gaining traction, for different reasons.

 

[Preditor]

On it's face I don't think there is inherently anything wrong with a T5 setup, EXCEPT for that fact that most resources on here and the web abroad are geared towards a T25 or T100 structure.

I would go with T25 for that reason alone. You'll get more support and resources online because it's a more common structure.

 

[JustinInMN]

The differences mostly have to do with tournament administration. Maybe there is argument for minor game influences, but here we care more about the chips than strategery .

T25 I believe became common because that was the WSOP main event structure at the time of the "poker boom" 20 years ago. 10K starting stacks, 25-50 starting blinds. This was the structure at the very first WSOP in fact, where they just played a one table cash game and voted on the winner.

Starting stack construction

For simplicity, let's consider starting stacks of 200 BB assuming blinds start at 1-2 times the base chip.

Base	First Level	Starting Stack	Denominations	Tight Quantity*	Loose Quantity*
T1	1-2	400	1/5/25/100	10/8/6/2 (26 chips)	15/12/9/1 (37 Chips)
T5	5-10	2000	5/25/100/500	10/6/8/2 (26 chips)	15/9/12/1 (37 Chips)
T25	25-50	10,000	25/100/500/1K	8/8/2/8 (26 chips)**	12/12/5/6 (35 Chips)
T100	100-200	40,000	100/500/1K/5K	10/2/8/6 (26 chips)**	15/3/12/5 (35 Chips)
T500	500-1000	200,000	500/1K/5K/25K	4/8/8/6 (26 chips)	6/12/12/5 (35 Chips)

*Tight quantity means all lower chips in the set should make 2 of the next value chip until the starting stack amount is reached. Loose Quantity means all lower chips in the starting stack should be able to make 3 of the next value chip until the starting stack amount is reached.

**More commonly these breakdowns have 4 * T500 in their stacks instead instead of 2, and one fewer T1000, which would call for a net increase of one chip.

Some bases require more chips in the tight quantity, some require more in the loose quantity. The T500 is the only base that's the most "efficent" in terms of fewest starting chips in both worlds.

Color Ups

If you consider the denominations you can list out a progression of multiples for each base.

T1 - 5x/5x/4x
T5 - 5x/4x/5x
T25 - 4x/5x/2x
T100 - 5x/2x/5x
T500 - 2x/5x/5x

The multiples also influence where the natural color ups are. Assuming you follow a progression of levels that play 2-4, 3-6, 4-8, 6-12, 8-16 times each chip in play, going back to start every time you can reach 2-4 times the next chip in play, it takes 5 levels to do a 5x color up, 4 levels to do a 4x color up, and 2 levels to do a 2x color up. The exception being at the start of the tournament, you may add possibly three levels of 1-1, 1-2, and 1-3 times the base chip before playing the 2-4 level.

So with Base T1, T5, and T100 you will play 7-8 levels before a color up.
With Base T25 you would play 6-7 levels
With Base T500 you would play 4-5 levels.

Also of note, the formats that start on 5x jump remove the most chips in the first color up. The T500 base has the simplest color up at the start and removes the fewest chips from play.

I don't know if any of this is significant, but these two things are the only real obvious differences in the bases to me. A lot of it is personal preference and what fits your desired structure best.

 

[BGinGA]

You omitted the T.25-base numbers:

First level: .25/.50
200bb Starting stack: T100
Denominations: .25, 1, 5, 20 (or 25)
Tight qty: 8/8/6/3 (25 chips)
Loose qty: 12/12/9/2 (35 chips)
Progression: 4x/5x/4x

Clearly superior.

 

[JustinInMN]

You omitted the T.25-base numbers:

First level: .25/.50
200bb Starting stack: T100
Denominations: .25, 1, 5, 20 (or 25)
Tight qty: 8/8/6/3 (25 chips)
Loose qty: 12/12/9/2 (35 chips)
Progression: 4x/5x/4x

Clearly superior.

Appreciate the completeness. I do have that hangup about using fractional values in a tournament, but I do agree by the measures I put forth it does appear to be a great option.

 

[KingHigh]

To host a T5 single table tournament w 2,000 starting chips, how many 500 chips should I have on hand?

 

[springbox]

1~2 per player for starting stacks, 1~2 per player for color ups. So 30ish plus rebuys.

 

[allforcharity]

To host a T5 single table tournament w 2,000 starting chips, how many 500 chips should I have on hand?

2 per starting stack + 0.6 per player for colour up + 4 per rebuy (unless you also have a lot of extra T100).

 

[SlowPokeTony]

To host a T5 single table tournament w 2,000 starting chips, how many 500 chips should I have on hand?

My group has been playing T5 for 20 years and no one will ever convince me it’s not the best way to go!! Reason being is there is no wasted chip jump. T25 or T100 goes 100/500/1000/5000 and I hate that the 500 and 1000 are so close together. My stacks are 10/10/7/3 for 2500 chips. When it’s time to color up, all the 5s and 25s neatly turn into 3x100 per player. This means you always know you need exactly 10 chips of each per player. When it comes to 500s everyone gets 3 to start and rebuys get 5x500. For 8 players I have a 300 chip set of 80/80/80/60 and it’s plenty. There has been an occasional time we need 1ks even though I don’t like them and try to avoid it.

 

[upNdown]

Search for thread title "T-base preference" -- lots of info in that thread regarding pros/cons.

Summary:

T.25-base is the most efficient.
T1- and T5-base are mostly disliked.
T25-base is still the most popular.
T100-base and T500-base are both gaining traction, for different reasons.

Are there any pros to a T500, or are they just gaining traction?

 

[KingHigh]

My group has been playing T5 for 20 years and no one will ever convince me it’s not the best way to go!! Reason being is there is no wasted chip jump. T25 or T100 goes 100/500/1000/5000 and I hate that the 500 and 1000 are so close together. My stacks are 10/10/7/3 for 2500 chips. When it’s time to color up, all the 5s and 25s neatly turn into 3x100 per player. This means you always know you need exactly 10 chips of each per player. When it comes to 500s everyone gets 3 to start and rebuys get 5x500. For 8 players I have a 300 chip set of 80/80/80/60 and it’s plenty. There has been an occasional time we need 1ks even though I don’t like them and try to avoid it.

This is an awesome response! How many 500 chips do you think I can get by with this breakdown for 8 players? I have plenty of 100 chips.
Thanks!

 

[BGinGA]

Are there any pros to a T500, or are they just gaining traction?

a) far fewer lowest-denomination chips are required (those chips that see the shortest amount of use before being removed), so fewer total set chips are needed to accomodate a similarly-sized field

b) T500-base minimizes the negative effects of the 2x denom jump from 500-1000, since the T500s are mostly just used for posting blinds in the early rounds (500/500, 500/1000, 500/1500, 1500/3000).

There is also the elegant simplicity of needing exactly one rack each (of 500 - 1000 - 5000 - 25000 chips) to host a 10-player tournament that can be flexibly configured anywhere from 50bb to 300bb starting stacks with perfect color-up efficiency.

 

[SlowPokeTony]

This is an awesome response! How many 500 chips do you think I can get by with this breakdown for 8 players? I have plenty of 100 chips.
Thanks!

It’s sort of up to you and your players. Technically you could play with 100 as the biggest chip but it will be a lot of chips still on the table at the end. You’d get to the point where it’s just 100s and nothing else. You could do your 2000 starting stacks as 10/10/17 and use 500s just for rebuys and a late color up if needed. Anything 500/1000 and up for blinds is going to be a chore to not have 500s in play. If you don’t play with rebuys 20x500 would be plenty. But if you have rebuys you’ll definitely need more.

 

[Taghkanic]

I think it also depends somewhat on your player pool.

If it’s a $100 firehouse or VFW tournament full of older casual players, I think T100 runs more smoothly at early levels. You get less confusion about ante and betting amounts when everything is in round numbers. Blinds like 25-50 with a 50 BB ante lead to a lot of repeat questions.

Also, a T100 tourney is more likely to run into very big denoms later, which I think more casual players find fun. Feels more like TV when you’re betting tens or hundreds of thousands at a clip.

If you’re hosting smaller, frequent tournaments with more seasoned regulars, then I think all options are OK, and probably depend more on chip availability than anything else.

 

[KingHigh]

It’s sort of up to you and your players. Technically you could play with 100 as the biggest chip but it will be a lot of chips still on the table at the end. You’d get to the point where it’s just 100s and nothing else. You could do your 2000 starting stacks as 10/10/17 and use 500s just for rebuys and a late color up if needed. Anything 500/1000 and up for blinds is going to be a chore to not have 500s in play. If you don’t play with rebuys 20x500 would be plenty. But if you have rebuys you’ll definitely need more.

Sounds good, thanks!