KK on a super high level table! (2 Viewers)

[Gunnar]

So I have been playing some hardcore cash tables recently and the other night I found my self on a table.

So in Iceland we have 3 major tournaments a year.

The High Roller
The Small Roller
The Icelandic Championship.

All offical titles.

So we are playing 100/200kr and it is quite deep.

Seat 1 Some fish around 80K stack LAG
Seat 2 Icelandic Champion high lvl player 200K stack TAG
Seat 3 Amazingly beautiful player ( Hero ) 160K stack LAG
Seat 4 Small Roller champion 100K stack TIGHT
Seat 5 Icelandic Champion 340K stack - No read
Seat 6 VILLAIN - Pro online player and successful tournament player 180K - Skilled LAG
Seat 7 Shark cash game player only 400K stack - Skilled TAG
Seat 8 Experianced floor 70K - Meh

Button on me.
Small 100
Big 200
Villain straddle 2000
Fold
Fold
Fish calles from seat 1 2000
Seat 2 folds
I look at
I put it to 6500
Fold
Fold
Villain flats 4500
Fish folds.

Pot 15.300
Flop is

Villain bets 22.000 and has 158.500 behind.

Action on us!

 

[Lemonzest]

This is a weird play. So he donks into you for more than the pot? Usually people check to the raiser...

To me this looks like weakness. He either has nothing and is trying to take it down or has a J 10 type hand and is trying to protect his holding.

If he has a monster like a set or 2 pair I don't think he donks into you here for over pot. Does he bet into you with a flopped straight? I dont think so. I like a raise or a call but lean toward raise.

 

[joker80]

I hate donk bets. First off probably would have raised it to 8000 pre flop. Also , what's with the massive overbet? You could be way behind here, I would just call and maintain my positional advantage, re-evaluate his turn bet.

 

[Gunnar]

I hate donk bets to, that is why we are making this thread. I see this often from new players but this player is no fish

 

[Jimulacrum]

Raise more preflop. In a cash game this deep with potentially tricky players, you don't want to be offering attractive implied odds to all kinds of speculative hands. Villain's range could be quite wide here, especially if he might think you were just stabbing at his 10x straddle.

On the flop, I like a min raise, with the intention of betting the turn and probably checking behind the river if he goes defensive. You should get plenty of value when ahead that way, while minimizing your loss when you're behind. If he raises back, it's foldin' time.

 

[joker80]

If he raises back, it's foldin' time.

For sure

 

[Rhodeman77]

Any hand history we can fall back on? It would be great to know if this Villian has a history of of donk bets. Have you folded in the past to donk bets?

Without more info I’m putting in a raise. If he flopped a made hand like 2 pair, set, or straight, why over bet and give you a chance to fold a hand like AK? Why not let you continue to bet? There isn’t even a possible flush draw to worry about!

This feels like a combo hand. A pair plus a gut shot type hand that is trying to get an over pair to fold.

 

[luckroy]

This board isn't great, but rainbow is helpful. You are either way behind or he has at most 9 outs. I'd prefer to call and evaluate the turn.

 

[Gunnar]

Any hand history we can fall back on? It would be great to know if this Villian has a history of of donk bets. Have you folded in the past to donk bets?

Without more info I’m putting in a raise. If he flopped a made hand like 2 pair, set, or straight, why over bet and give you a chance to fold a hand like AK? Why not let you continue to bet? There isn’t even a possible flush draw to worry about!

This feels like a combo hand. A pair plus a gut shot type hand that is trying to get an over pair to fold.

We have played like 7-8 hands heads up last three hours. I made a big river bluff and he folded and I showed. That was like 40min early.

He likes to bet funny. Min bet into deep pots, but that was the first donk of the night

 

[Mr Tree]

I’d like to raise here to see how he responds but nothing too big. All in all I would like to try to keep the pot somewhat small and probably bail if he is actively bloating it after a reraise.

 

[ChaosRock]

I agree with those above who chimed in about your pre-flop raise. With a 10x straddler and a caller, I like something around 9K, maybe even 10K.

Now, the flop is somewhat wet. Yes, it hits his call range better than your raise range but there's no open enders (okay, 65) or flush draws. Yes, there's one straight, not too many 2-P (J8s,78s?) and some sets. AJ and JT/J9 might be possible. I've seen loads of people donk betting with middle pair as well. Not folding now. Not raising either, as you are not representing much with the raise. I think I like a call and re-evalute the turn.

 

[Mike Wells]

Prob 2 of those 2-pairs in his range...or maybe just the 78. Obviously you're gonna be good most of the time. I see guys with pair/draw hands do this a lot. 89, TJ, JQ. If those are all in his range, I prob raise to make him pot-commit...65K-ish. There are a lot of bad turns. 7,8,9,T,J,A all suck and i hate to call another bet. Anything else, I jam turn.

 

[moose]

KK on a super high level table!

If it bothers you, you could always cut the legs shorter and uneven.

 

[PlaidDragon]

1) Seat 6 VILLAIN - Pro online player and successful tournament player 180K - Skilled LAG
2) Button on me.
3) I put it to 6500
4) Villain flats 4500
5) Pot 15.300
6) Flop is
7) Villain bets 22.000 and has 158.500 behind.
8) Action on us!

Hmm... his pre-flop flat suggests mid pair or suited connectors. He was willing to tag along but not risk being jammed on.

The open post flop smells fishy though. If he'd hit something would not a trap be of more worth? Would he have flatted with JJ? Perhaps. The 7 and 8 are in set range however.

I'm inclined to fold if in that situation.

 

[SixSpeedFury]

I don't know the differences, but isn't 2000kr a really big straddle compared to the blinds?

 

[Steve Birrer]

I’d like to raise here to see how he responds but nothing too big. All in all I would like to try to keep the pot somewhat small and probably bail if he is actively bloating it after a reraise.

And just how is that supposed to work here? The pot after villains bet is like 37K. A min raise would require 44K more. Now the pot is over 80K which is half of Hero's stack before the start of the hand.

I think a call is best here. If you raise then what do you do if Villain four bets? What do you do if he just calls and he bets again on the turn (even if its a blank)?

 

[Chris La Mantia]

I am no expert (anyone playing with me on P* can attest to that), but I'm in the "call" camp. (Of course I had KK busted on me twice tonight so it may just make me nervous now.)

 

[BGinGA]

I'm either calling (most likely) or jamming. Just raising seems like giving money away if you're planning on folding to a 4-bet. Let him make the hard decision if he has a pair with a draw...

 

[colter ripton]

I call in position here and see what happens on the turn.

 

[Dr Lecterr]

I would have liked a 8000 bet pre flop. But, with the spot you’re in, I think he has a multitude of hands with a J. Definitely re-raise to 50 or 55. Just my 2c

 

[Gunnar]

Thanks for all the feedback. I put him on a weaker hand after that bet and I raised to 64.000

And he jammed fast
Do we find a fold ?

 

[colter ripton]

I dont think you can fold now. If you think he has any bluffs here I think you have to call.

You also have good equity against two pair. Against a set or straight you are pretty dead.

But you have almost half of your stack in there already.

I'm going to make a crying call.... wishfully hoping for something like j10...... realistically being alright with something like 78........but wholeheartedly expecting something like 77.

tough spot but I think it's a call now.

 

[FEAROFGOD]

Thanks for all the feedback. I put him on a weaker hand after that bet and I raised to 64.000

And he jammed fast
Do we find a fold ?

Not sure I like the re-raise for information here, I feel like you've pot committed yourself to the play, probably would've called flop, but now I would probably call and pray he's on a draw, i'm only a 100NL player so probably not that great of advice. What a weird hand,

 

[Don Clay]

Call, you're ahead vs J 10 or J 9.

 

[Darson]

He has JJ. He straddles, looks down at JJ, acting last only has you to play so calls. Lucks out on the flop, knows you likely have an overpair so is making you pay to see his set.

 

[ChaosRock]

Thanks for all the feedback. I put him on a weaker hand after that bet and I raised to 64.000

And he jammed fast
Do we find a fold ?

Yuck!! That's why I don't care for a flop raise there, as I said, you're not representing much, only over pairs that are showing fear. It becomes easier for Villain to play you.

Tough, tough call imo... In one hand, Villain sort of knows you're almost pot committed so he doesn't have much fold equity, on the other, he knows he can put some pressure on your over pair... I think it's close... Honestly don't see Villain taking this line with the top of his range at all... I'm really confused. I really want to find a fold, not sure I can...

 

[Pesto628]

I think a raise here is bad news. This is definitely a way ahead/way behind situation. Raising folds out almost all of the hands that you beat and keeps the ones that have you beaten. Just call behind and reevaluate on the turn.

 

[Mr Tree]

Villain is about to table pocket 7s. I don’t know that I feel the need to call this.

 

[Ellasdaddy]

I dont think you can fold now. If you think he has any bluffs here I think you have to call.

You also have good equity against two pair. Against a set or straight you are pretty dead.

But you have almost half of your stack in there already.

I'm going to make a crying call.... wishfully hoping for something like j10...... realistically being alright with something like 78........but wholeheartedly expecting something like 77.

tough spot but I think it's a call now.

This.

 

[WedgeRock]

I would have been prepared to make a crying call if he re-raised... except that he snap shoved...



@mike32 covers this play in his upcoming book... The chapter is called "Going all in to find out where you are at in the hand."