KQs in the blinds (1 Viewer)

[DrStrange]

We are playing no limit Texas hold'em. $1/$1 blinds eleven handed. We are about halfway through the session. The game has been action packed - not only do we have a couple of action players at the table but we have seen some big hands and nasty coolers (ace high flush vs straight flush and quads vs overfull for example.) Dinner was yummy and everyone is in good spirits.

Yes I know eleven handed is slow and can be nitty, but the social value of all being at the same table is more important. I have an oversized table that seats twelve uncomfortably so an eleven handed fits the table ok.

Cast of characters:

In the big blind we have Hero who is playing $450 on a $200 buy-in. The early part of the game was bumpy for Hero, but things have turned in his favor. Hero holds a nitty reputation but even so people are willing to lock horns.

The Ultimate Calling Station is UTG +2 playing $275. Tonight this villain is playing a bit out of character - calls way too often but is somewhat more aggressive than normal.

The Cougar is playing $75 in the cutoff. This is a tricky-trappy calling station kind of player. He slow plays everything good. He bets draws and medium strength hands but takes passive lines with powerhouses. If he wakes up betting/raising hard, assume his power comes from a prior street.

Hawk is playing the Button with $150 in chips. He is also a tricky trappy, passive calling station kind of player. He can be aggressive, but that is not his default playing style. He too bets his draws and medium strength hands and tends to slow play made hands, but he is a little more aware of the risks posed by draws. This game is 'cheese burger' stakes for him, but he really hates to lose even "small amounts" of money.

The hand.

The Ultimate Calling Station raises to $6 (normal sizing). The other two villains call while everyone else folds.

Hero opens up in the big blind. Should Hero fold, call or raise? If raising, how much?

DrStrange

 

[Gary Vroman]

I bump it up to $25 and try and isolate Calling Station.

 

[PhilLaFond]

I like a call here with a dark check after. Your hand has tons of potential post flop, and a call would disguise it well. At these stakes, and based on your description I'm guessing a pot sized raise gets called by all, or maybe induces a shove by the tricky Cougar, so then you're faced with deciding if your hand is worth $75+. Depending on post flop action after your dark check you can either get away from it fairly cheap, or set a little trap yourself. That all being said, I'm an average at best player that rarely gets these kind of strategy questions right.

 

[mummel]

Bet $12. I'm hoping for 1 more fold while not putting too much at risk.

 

[DrStrange]

Are people thinking Hero's KQs is ahead of the range of the raising villain? He is in bad position and is relatively passive, both factors suggesting a strong range - I am not so sure about wanting to isolate vs a player that is going to be hard to bluff with a C-bet on a missed flop.

If Hero raises to $25 (for example), I expect little chance the original raiser folds and zero to one folds from the other two villains even if they have weak hands.

 

[Kain8]

You're bloating the pot unnecessarily if you 3 bet OOP. Call with your excellent pot odds and pretty good holding and see what develops.

 

[MacGrad]

I agree with Phil and Kain... given Hero's nitty rep, an isolation raise would probably work with most of the other players at the table, but it likely wouldn't have the same effect / impact given the descriptions of the other players in this hand.

Call... but don't check dark. Depending on the flop, Hero's rep may help with isolation during this round of betting.

 

[AWenger]

60% of time = Call
20% of time = Raise to $20 (expect 3 other callers)
20% of time = Raise to $30+ to isolate

I'd say at this particular moment, only raise if you're willing to re-raise if The Cougar goes all-in for $75. If UTG+2 re-raises you, consider a fold.

 

[Ben]

I'm calling 100% of the time. A fold wouldn't be awful though. Unless the opener is a maniac (clearly not the case here) raising is very bad.

 

[MacGrad]

I'm calling 100% of the time. A fold wouldn't be awful though. Unless the opener is a maniac (clearly not the case here) raising is very bad.

I'm not saying a fold is wrong, but I'm curious about your thought process that could lead to a fold.

If KQs is a possible fold to a standard raise in this situation, given that we know the raiser is playing a little out-of-character, what would your playable range be against this group of players?

 

[Ben]

I'm not saying a fold is wrong, but I'm curious about your thought process that could lead to a fold.

If KQs is a possible fold to a standard raise in this situation, given that we know the raiser is playing a little out-of-character, what would your playable range be against this group of players?

I expect that an open from the Ultimate Calling Station is something like 99+, AK-AQ only. He may be playing more aggro than normal in general, but preflop opening ranges tend to be pretty static. If his range is much wider than that I'd be surprised, and that range crushes KQs. We are OOP, and he is also the UCS so unlikely to ever be able to bluff him.

I'm not folding, but that may be a mistake. I'd be happier to be in there with 78s than KQs though. OOP against a very tight opener who doesn't fold, I'm not sure that anything other than QQ+ or AK automatically warrants action.

 

[tripleflatbarrel]

Probably just a call. I don't mind an ISO raise here against other V types, but not here.

Folding KQs 275BB effective isn't an option, IMO.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I'm calling 100% of the time. A fold wouldn't be awful though. Unless the opener is a maniac (clearly not the case here) raising is very bad.

This is roughly my thinking. I'm calling almost all the time here.

Folding isn't out of the question. It's not like QKs is free of RIO problems in a multi-way raised pot.

 

[CHP TD]

hmmm

I like the small ball approach. this is a possibly good hand but it has to connect to have strength. I mean what flop do you really go YAY to for this hand? not many. but when you really connect it is disguised - Then you probably get the whole villians stack if he connects in some way. So the name of the game is lose a little or win allot.

flat and see. this way your not married to the hand.

 

[DrStrange]

*** On to the flop ***

For the record, I'd say call > fold >> raise. However. Hero really hates to put chips in the pot OOP without a great reason.

Hero calls. We have four way action with $25 in the pot. Hero holds

Flop is

Action on Hero. Bet or check? If betting, how much? If checking, what should Hero be planning - check/call vs check/raise? Is there any time when Hero folds on this street?

 

[CHP TD]

See Flop is thats not really what u want to see. still u have top pr and a flush draw. thats enough to continue but don't go silly.

gotta check then flat call BUT most important - with the right odds to chase.

You just might chase to the second best hand here. But you already know that.

there is only one card your looking for that will make u sure you have this one. Find it and your in a better space. but your not out of the woods.

this is a rookies worst nightmare but he doesn't know it.

by all means sir - proceed only with the right odds

 

[Leonard]

Preflop 100% call. You are likely behind (somebody has an ace or a pair) and betting will not thin the field much. You have a decent hand, but there is little reason to overplay it. I would likely never fold, either. You are OOP but the odds are right and your call ends the action (I think).

On the flop, you have options - donkbet, check raise, check call. All are reasonable, but I would likely check and see.

L

 

[trever]

Donk bet $20. When everyone calls and a black ace hits the turn, then you can think about checking.

As it stands now, you have plenty of equity against anything that is beating you, and you are well ahead of everything worse. Value bet.

 

[Trihonda]

See Flop is thats not really what u want to see.

With respect... What kinda flop would we want to see? I think barring a flop with lots of Q's or K's, I think this is a very good flop for us.

I'm probably playing in flow (if I think the original raiser will C-Bet). If they're likely to check, I'll bet out $20 (table read is key here). If we check and they bet, I'm probably flatting.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Bet $15, you don't want to scare anyone away. Worst card in the deck is a non-heart A.

 

[CHP TD]

With respect... What kinda flop would we want to see? I think barring a flop with lots of Q's or K's, I think this is a very good flop for us.

I'm probably playing in flow (if I think the original raiser will C-Bet). If they're likely to check, I'll bet out $20 (table read is key here). If we check and they bet, I'm probably flatting.

Good point, My thoughts in this scenario 4 ppl in the pot after a raise Pre flop. what did these 3 have? Likelihood is AX, Ax suited, small to mid pair, so to take stock we have top pr second best kicker. and a possible second best flush draw.

so far ive heard chasey people are in the hand. big danger cause if we bet and someone re raises what then call i suppose but you have 2 more streets and whilst your strong there are 3 opponents with god knows what.

so im just saying this has to be taken carefully. Yes were good position here but not a great position. if it goes south it will hurt so i agree with you that the read has to be damn good whatever you do.

 

[BGinGA]

The Ultimate Calling Station is UTG +2
The Cougar is playing $75 in the cutoff. This is a tricky-trappy calling station kind of player.
Hawk is playing the Button with $150 in chips. He is also a tricky trappy, passive calling station kind of player.

Given that the field are all a bunch of calling stations, it seems correct here to play right into their style by giving them something to call. Bet $20.

 

[mummel]

Bet $25. Calling station will continuation bet if you check and then you wont be able to get more information from the other two hands.

When your other heart drops, check and represent that you are afraid of the flush. Any non-heart Ace, admit defeat that you overplayed.

For the record, I raised to $12 pre-flop hoping for 1 fold. If I bet $25 now OOP, then the others will think I got this.

 

[DrStrange]

This is one of the best flops hero could ask for. A pair plus flush draw is 50/50 or ahead of any single hand except a set. There are two problems for hero:
1) If the betting gets heavy heads up, Hero doesn't know whether to pray for a heart or not.
2) if the betting gets heavy multiway, Hero could be "monkey in the middle" facing the nut flush draw on one side and a hand better than TP/GK on the other.

Baring the monkey in the middle situation, Hero has a monster equity flop.

 

[Meddler2]

What happens if you lead out for $20-25 and get reraised by either a better hand or somebody wanting to get drawing hands like your to fold?

I'm a horrible player but if I was one of your opponents and had say AQ, you would not see the turn unless you were willing to gambol.

 

[Kain8]

We have a flush draw that is undoubtedly good and top pair! Bomb this flop with a near pot bet and be happy to get it in if Cougar raises us. If one of the bigger stacks raises, we can easily call with our hand to see what the turn brings.

 

[detroitdad]

Given that the field are all a bunch of calling stations, it seems correct here to play right into their style by giving them something to call. Bet $20.

I agree completely.

 

[Gary Vroman]

I lead out with $25 hoping to get info. I expect to get a couple callers from the calling stations.

 

[Ellasdaddy]

This is one of the best flops hero could ask for. A pair plus flush draw is 50/50 or ahead of any single hand except a set. There are two problems for hero:
1) If the betting gets heavy heads up, Hero doesn't know whether to pray for a heart or not.
2) if the betting gets heavy multiway, Hero could be "monkey in the middle" facing the nut flush draw on one side and a hand better than TP/GK on the other.

Baring the monkey in the middle situation, Hero has a monster equity flop.

.
This is why I like a healthy preflop raise. Even one fold improves this situation.

Given the villains, our holdings, our stack and the equity involved, I like check-raising here. This is as good a flop as our hand could hope for, so short of not opening in the BB with it, I think I play it confidently for stacks until a non-heart Ace hits.

 

[tripleflatbarrel]

Check raise.