Limit Sets, Limit Sets, MORE Limit Sets!!! (4 Viewers)

[slisk250]

This has been my biggest concern over the vote that just passed in Colorado to remove the $100 max bet cap, which I did vote for, but I'm worried about the NLHE effects going forward with the player pool, you spelled it out exactly like I would have... We'll see come May 1st 2021.....

Yeah that would suck to have 400 behind and the stone cold nuts and limited to a C note bet

 

[nitzilla]

Yeah that would suck to have 400 behind and the stone cold nuts and limited to a C note bet

That's the best part of the new law, not being restricted to $100 bets. I never even played the $2-5 $100 Spread Limit since the pots would balloon and the $100 cap would be peanuts by the turn, let alone the river....

 

[Nanook]

............
Just so I understand you right, the games in your card room for a 4/8 game the players buy in for a rack so effectively they’re only buying in for 12 big bets.

Interesting as well that you say that 1/2 chip blinds don’t encourage action in the same way as 2/4 blinds. Something to think about at my next game. Thanks for your reply

4/8 plays considerably bigger than 2x bigger than 2/4. Here is the reason. In a 2/4 game the blinds are $1 & $2 so there are a total of 3 chips in the pot which just doesn't look like anything. In a 4/8 game the blinds are $2 & $4 also all $1 chips so there are 6 chips in the middle right away. This encourages lots of limping and calling. A typical pot goes something like this: utg call, maybe another caller or two and then someone raises now another call or two and the blinds and limpers all call. 6 or 7 players see the flop with something like 12 to 15 small bets. How many hands are you going to fold getting 15:1? Not many, right? Somewhere there will be a bet and a raise on the flop with 4-5 people seeing the turn. Now there are 15 + another 10 or so small bets which is the same as 12 ish big bets. Again now on the turn we are getting 12:1. How many hands do you fold? Again not many... turn is usually a bet and a raise & maybe you lose 1 or 2 so now you are down to 3 players with another 6 big bets going into the river with something like 18 big bets. River will be a bet and 2 callers for a total of a 21ish big bet pot. Think about it 21 Big bets in a little 4/8 game = $168. People like playing big pots because big pot poker is fun. People like winning a massive pot with 52 suited on the button a lot more than they like to sit around and play 1 hand an orbit.

If you play an entire hand as described all the way to the showdown it is 100% normal to put in 5 or 6 big bets so if you don't win a pot pretty quickly your 1st rack can disappear pretty quickly so that is why people will buy in for 2 & 3 racks.

 

[BonScot]

4/8 plays considerably bigger than 2x bigger than 2/4. Here is the reason. In a 2/4 game the blinds are $1 & $2 so there are a total of 3 chips in the pot which just doesn't look like anything. In a 4/8 game the blinds are $2 & $4 also all $1 chips so there are 6 chips in the middle right away. This encourages lots of limping and calling. A typical pot goes something like this: utg call, maybe another caller or two and then someone raises now another call or two and the blinds and limpers all call. 6 or 7 players see the flop with something like 12 to 15 small bets. How many hands are you going to fold getting 15:1? Not many, right? Somewhere there will be a bet and a raise on the flop with 4-5 people seeing the turn. Now there are 15 + another 10 or so small bets which is the same as 12 ish big bets. Again now on the turn we are getting 12:1. How many hands do you fold? Again not many... turn is usually a bet and a raise & maybe you lose 1 or 2 so now you are down to 3 players with another 6 big bets going into the river with something like 18 big bets. River will be a bet and 2 callers for a total of a 21ish big bet pot. Think about it 21 Big bets in a little 4/8 game = $168. People like playing big pots because big pot poker is fun. People like winning a massive pot with 52 suited on the button a lot more than they like to sit around and play 1 hand an orbit.

If you play an entire hand as described all the way to the showdown it is 100% normal to put in 5 or 6 big bets so if you don't win a pot pretty quickly your 1st rack can disappear pretty quickly so that is why people will buy in for 2 & 3 racks.

Would love to be able to play in a game like this. Sounds like a lot of fun.

I played some fixed limit online and did not too bad at it but I get bored quickly online. Much prefer to play live.

 

[Nanook]

That's the best part of the new law, not being restricted to $100 bets. I never even played the $2-5 $100 Spread Limit since the pots would balloon and the $100 cap would be peanuts by the turn, let alone the river....

$2-$100 spread limit with $2 & $5 blinds wouldn't work well in my opinion. It is going to turn into a really big $100/$100 limit game far too often far too early in the hand to work well.

Once again, people are going to lose too quickly and stop playing.

Not fun for the weaker players....

 

[Poker Zombie]

$2-$100 spread limit with $2 & $5 blinds wouldn't work well in my opinion. It is going to turn into a really big $100/$100 limit game far too often far too early in the hand to work well.

Once again, people are going to lose too quickly and stop playing.

Not fun for the weaker players....

To be fair, $2-$5 isn't for most weaker players. That's what $1-$2 is for, and a wise casino (if allowed by law) would charge by seat hours instead of rake, and pitch a 50¢-$1 game (though chippers may walk off with most of them, ala MGM Grand Detroit).

 

[warma]

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What color is the Rosie’s main chip? I’m debating between two limit sets once I figure things out:

One would be a CPC lcrown set with a light base (light blue or gray) and 8 different dayglo/retro spots for each player (2 racks each, trimoon) to see how money flows. I’m torn between the base colors.

 

[joepro]

My local card room spreads mostly limit.

20 yrs ago when we first started they tried 10/20 but it didn't work. Playing any limit game with 1&2 chips for the blinds does not work well because it doesn't look like there is anything in the pot. Ideally games like 4/8 with $1 chips, 8/16 with $2 chips & 20/40 with $5 chips work best because people love getting into big pots and lots of chips in the blinds encourages people to play a lot of hands & get into these massive pots.

Atlantic City used to spread a lot of “Pink Chip” games, and pink snappers were the only chips allowed on the table. A common format was $7.50/15, half limit holdem/half O8. Additionally, the small blind was 2 chips and the big blind was 3 chips, so the small blind is more inclined to play because 2/3 of the bet is already there. Needless to say, there was a lot of action!

 

[Nanook]

Atlantic City used to spread a lot of “Pink Chip” games, and pink snappers were the only chips allowed on the table. A common format was $7.50/15, half limit holdem/half O8. Additionally, the small blind was 2 chips and the big blind was 3 chips, so the small blind is more inclined to play because 2/3 of the bet is already there. Needless to say, there was a lot of action!

When the small blind is 2 chips and the
Big blind this is a good structure too. We used to play 15/30 all the time with $10 small blind and $15 big blind. Kind of the same thing, really good game.

 

[BruceWayne]

I really like this thread.

 

[Nanook]

This has been my biggest concern over the vote that just passed in Colorado to remove the $100 max bet cap, which I did vote for, but I'm worried about the NLHE effects going forward with the player pool, you spelled it out exactly like I would have... We'll see come May 1st 2021.....

Well, you will get to see first hand how it plays out. It won't be immediate or anything, but trust me the nl game will destroy your card room. nl is like cancer, once introduced it will eventually kill the card room. Look everywhere else other than Vegas and maybe FL & you will see the future of your card room. A couple nitty tables of 1/2 & maybe 1 tough 2/5 nl game on fri night. Too bad too, because you guys have a great game there.

 

[Nanook]

To be fair, $2-$5 isn't for most weaker players. That's what $1-$2 is for, and a wise casino (if allowed by law) would charge by seat hours instead of rake, and pitch a 50¢-$1 game (though chippers may walk off with most of them, ala MGM Grand Detroit).

You are not wrong, but in all honesty even 1/2nl is too big & beginners lose their money too fast.

The problem is both the size and the structure. A healthy card room is like a healthy fishing lake. There are lots of little minnows supporting the yearlings and less, but lots of yearlings supporting the bigger fish and just a few sharks eating the lot of them.

Poker is not healthy right now in the vast majority of cardrooms. Hardly any new players for the past decade + a move toward a game that tends to eliminate newer players quicker than ever before.

 

[slisk250]

What color is the Rosie’s main chip? I’m debating between two limit sets once I figure things out:

One would be a CPC lcrown set with a light base (light blue or gray) and 8 different dayglo/retro spots for each player (2 racks each, trimoon) to see how money flows. I’m torn between the base colors.

Light blue/maroon.

 

[Poker Zombie]

You are not wrong, but in all honesty even 1/2nl is too big & beginners lose their money too fast.

The problem is both the size and the structure. A healthy card room is like a healthy fishing lake. There are lots of little minnows supporting the yearlings and less, but lots of yearlings supporting the bigger fish and just a few sharks eating the lot of them.

Poker is not healthy right now in the vast majority of cardrooms. Hardly any new players for the past decade + a move toward a game that tends to eliminate newer players quicker than ever before.

I agree that poker is less healthy. At least in the US, I blame the government shutdown of online poker sites.

No-Limit may have some culpability, but all gambling has dropped off in the past 10 years leading Vegas into more of a shopping destination than a gambling mecca. I believe that the shift from Limit to NL is just coincidental.

 

[Jambine]

Thx, yeah I learned from @Jambine

Now you can play $1.25/$2.50

 

[Nanook]

I agree that poker is less healthy. At least in the US, I blame the government shutdown of online poker sites.

No-Limit may have some culpability, but all gambling has dropped off in the past 10 years leading Vegas into more of a shopping destination than a gambling mecca. I believe that the shift from Limit to NL is just coincidental.

I agree that the unhealthy state of Poker in the US has multiple reasons. nl is just one of those reasons, but it is without a doubt a major contributor.. The status of online poker in the USA is certainly another big contributor.

It's not that I don't like nl, I think a lot of times people think that because I say nl isn't good for the health of a card room I don't like nl. Nothing could be further from the truth, I would love to constantly play in a huge nl game with bad players that have unlimited deep pockets, but that just isn't realistic.

Poker Rooms and poker in general is supported by losing players. What you really want is for the losing players to lose the maximum amount they are willing to lose, but doing it slowly enough that they always think they have a chance and they never quit. The median US household income is 68k/yr. If the average guy loses more than probably 5% of their income that is most likely unsustainable. Assuming that is true, that means the average person could lose no more than $3500 ish/yr and not quit. That is only $300/month. If a beginner plays even 1/2nl and the max they can handle losing is $300/month they could easily lose $300 and probably would lose $300 in an hour or less. They are now done for a month. Next month they come back and do it again. How many months in a row are they going to do that before they decide Poker isn't any fun? That same $300 could easily sustain a weak limit player for maybe 10- 20 hours of play in a $2/$4 game.

Do you now understand why nl is bad for a card room?

 

[Poker Zombie]

I get where you are coming from. Now from the perspective of a bad player... Me.

I am easily in that camp of can't lose $300 a month. So I don't play monthly. I play (in casinos) a couple times a year. Vacations. Las Vegas mainly, occasionally I'll hit other casinos when I'm traveling elsewhere. Poker rooms can be found now in about 1/2 the US states. Proliferation of more poker could be why other card rooms struggle. Why travel to Vegas for my fix when so many other options are available?

When I play, I prefer No-limit. Why? I can hit a big hand in NL and go way up. It's very hard to hit that monster in limit, you have to keep winning to stay ahead, and you know you won't when you are a losing player.

NL is also more fun. It's exciting. Limit is a game of a slowly dwindling chipstack. Since I'm playing only a few times a year, I'm not worried about losing - in fact when I budget out my trips, I anticipate losing every penny of my buy-in. But I may hit that big hand, be on the winning side of a cooler. Might catch my flush draw. If that happens, odds are much better that I will finish up on the session.

NL ignited the poker boom. It's the reason card rooms proliferated.

So as to not derail the thread, I have a limit set. I like limit. I just like NL Holdem better.

 

[Nanook]

I get where you are coming from. Now from the perspective of a bad player... Me.

I am easily in that camp of can't lose $300 a month. So I don't play monthly. I play (in casinos) a couple times a year. Vacations. Las Vegas mainly, occasionally I'll hit other casinos when I'm traveling elsewhere. Poker rooms can be found now in about 1/2 the US states. Proliferation of more poker could be why other card rooms struggle. Why travel to Vegas for my fix when so many other options are available?

When I play, I prefer No-limit. Why? I can hit a big hand in NL and go way up. It's very hard to hit that monster in limit, you have to keep winning to stay ahead, and you know you won't when you are a losing player.

NL is also more fun. It's exciting. Limit is a game of a slowly dwindling chipstack. Since I'm playing only a few times a year, I'm not worried about losing - in fact when I budget out my trips, I anticipate losing every penny of my buy-in. But I may hit that big hand, be on the winning side of a cooler. Might catch my flush draw. If that happens, odds are much better that I will finish up on the session.

NL ignited the poker boom. It's the reason card rooms proliferated.

So as to not derail the thread, I have a limit set. I like limit. I just like NL Holdem better. View attachment 602142

Ok there you go....
I have nothing more to say.

 

[Goldfish]

I get where you are coming from. Now from the perspective of a bad player... Me.

I am easily in that camp of can't lose $300 a month. So I don't play monthly. I play (in casinos) a couple times a year. Vacations. Las Vegas mainly, occasionally I'll hit other casinos when I'm traveling elsewhere. Poker rooms can be found now in about 1/2 the US states. Proliferation of more poker could be why other card rooms struggle. Why travel to Vegas for my fix when so many other options are available?

When I play, I prefer No-limit. Why? I can hit a big hand in NL and go way up. It's very hard to hit that monster in limit, you have to keep winning to stay ahead, and you know you won't when you are a losing player.

NL is also more fun. It's exciting. Limit is a game of a slowly dwindling chipstack. Since I'm playing only a few times a year, I'm not worried about losing - in fact when I budget out my trips, I anticipate losing every penny of my buy-in. But I may hit that big hand, be on the winning side of a cooler. Might catch my flush draw. If that happens, odds are much better that I will finish up on the session.

NL ignited the poker boom. It's the reason card rooms proliferated.

So as to not derail the thread, I have a limit set. I like limit. I just like NL Holdem better. View attachment 602142

Ummmm.... if u are looking to hit that big hand try 5card plo. U can get ur stack all in pre and 5 people will call......

 

[inca911]

I get where you are coming from. Now from the perspective of a bad player... Me.

I am easily in that camp of can't lose $300 a month. So I don't play monthly. I play (in casinos) a couple times a year. Vacations. Las Vegas mainly, occasionally I'll hit other casinos when I'm traveling elsewhere. Poker rooms can be found now in about 1/2 the US states. Proliferation of more poker could be why other card rooms struggle. Why travel to Vegas for my fix when so many other options are available?

When I play, I prefer No-limit. Why? I can hit a big hand in NL and go way up. It's very hard to hit that monster in limit, you have to keep winning to stay ahead, and you know you won't when you are a losing player.

NL is also more fun. It's exciting. Limit is a game of a slowly dwindling chipstack. Since I'm playing only a few times a year, I'm not worried about losing - in fact when I budget out my trips, I anticipate losing every penny of my buy-in. But I may hit that big hand, be on the winning side of a cooler. Might catch my flush draw. If that happens, odds are much better that I will finish up on the session.

NL ignited the poker boom. It's the reason card rooms proliferated.

So as to not derail the thread, I have a limit set. I like limit. I just like NL Holdem better. View attachment 602142

I’ve played with that guy stacking my chips! Hope you had a good holiday.

 

[upNdown]

Yeah that would suck to have 400 behind and the stone cold nuts and limited to a C note bet

Yeah but imagine how you could play your draws.

 

[BGinGA]

Now you can play $1.25/$2.50

Or 75c/1.50 limit -- still lots of chips on the table (and in pots), with reasonably low buyins and lots of action.

 

[Windwalker]

@inca911’s MinnieMania 2020 was the first time I ever played limit. It was so much fun to see all of those chips in a single color out on the table at once. The cadence to the betting was also interesting and different from what I’m used to.

I’ve been working on a limit set for a bit, and except for 2 more racks on their way from Maryland as we speak, I think the set is complete. For a $10/$20 game, using Bourbon Street $5s and hundos.

 

[BonScot]

@inca911’s MinnieMania 2020 was the first time I ever played limit. It was so much fun to see all of those chips in a single color out on the table at once. The cadence to the betting was also interesting and different from what I’m used to.

I’ve been working on a limit set for a bit, and except for 2 more racks on their way from Maryland as we speak, I think the set is complete. For a $10/$20 game, using Bourbon Street $5s and hundos.

View attachment 602575View attachment 602576View attachment 602577View attachment 602578View attachment 602579

Usual half measure Krish

Lovely set. Well done mate.

 

[Nanook]

Here is a thread right here on our very own forum. A thread about our first experience playing poker at a casino. I know this is not concrete evidence or anything, but it sort of makes my point really well. 1st 5 posts are of guys buying into a nl game and getting felted very quickly and leaving mad/frustrated. 6th post is one of our members buying into a small limit game & here is his post: "February 2005 at Soaring Eagle in Mt. Pleasant MI. Played 3-6 limit because they didn't have NL. Bought in for $100, cashed for $300. Hooked me for life."
Now granted not everyone gets lucky on their 1st trip of limit and gets hooked for life, but since there is a LOT more variance in limit than there is in nl it is MUCH more likely that a new or beginning player will last a little while and have a little fun. This improves the chance greatly that they will return and give it another try. nl in a cardroom with experienced players is extremely demoralizing/intimidating for a new/beginning player where limit is not nearly so much so. Here is the thread presented as further evidence: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/first-time-playing-poker-at-a-casino.39414/

 

[BonScot]

Here is a thread right here on our very own forum. A thread about our first experience playing poker at a casino. I know this is not concrete evidence or anything, but it sort of makes my point really well. 1st 5 posts are of guys buying into a nl game and getting felted very quickly and leaving mad/frustrated. 6th post is one of our members buying into a small limit game & here is his post: "February 2005 at Soaring Eagle in Mt. Pleasant MI. Played 3-6 limit because they didn't have NL. Bought in for $100, cashed for $300. Hooked me for life."
Now granted not everyone gets lucky on their 1st trip of limit and gets hooked for life, but since there is a LOT more variance in limit than there is in nl it is MUCH more likely that a new or beginning player will last a little while and have a little fun. This improves the chance greatly that they will return and give it another try. nl in a cardroom with experienced players is extremely demoralizing/intimidating for a new/beginning player where limit is not nearly so much so. Here is the thread presented as further evidence: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/first-time-playing-poker-at-a-casino.39414/

Would love to play some mixed limit games over here. Sadly they don’t exist.

 

[Nanook]

@inca911’s MinnieMania 2020 was the first time I ever played limit. It was so much fun to see all of those chips in a single color out on the table at once. The cadence to the betting was also interesting and different from what I’m used to.

I’ve been working on a limit set for a bit, and except for 2 more racks on their way from Maryland as we speak, I think the set is complete. For a $10/$20 game, using Bourbon Street $5s and hundos.

Nice looking limit set. Not sure how often the $100's would get in play in a 5/10 lhe game, but hey you never know and it is nice to know you have them just in case....

If you have a crowd that will play 10/20, you might as well try and see if you can get people to play 15/30. It's not that much bigger and it plays a lot looser/better. In 15/30 the blinds are typically $10 & $15 (2x $5 & 3x $5 chips) which makes the small blind almost an automatic call. Even when there is a raise the sb is getting pretty good odds to call which makes the game much better. We used to play $15/$30 @ our cardroom all the time. They eventually convinced both the cardroom and the players to go with 20/40 which was a mistake in my opinion as it seems to be a little too big for most. You can buy into a 15/30 game with $500 and have a fighting chance to play for the night without a re-buy. In 20/40, 2 racks is almost mandatory just to start with and seems to be a little too big for most players. Depending on where you are playing and how much money people have for poker this may or may not be the case.

2 chip structure games (10/20 limit) tend to be more nitty and who wants that?

 

[Windwalker]

Nice looking limit set. Not sure how often the $100's would get in play in a 5/10 lhe game, but hey you never know and it is nice to know you have them just in case....

If you have a crowd that will play 10/20, you might as well try and see if you can get people to play 15/30. It's not that much bigger and it plays a lot looser/better. In 15/30 the blinds are typically $10 & $15 (2x $5 & 3x $5 chips) which makes the small blind almost an automatic call. Even when there is a raise the sb is getting pretty good odds to call which makes the game much better. We used to play $15/$30 @ our cardroom all the time. They eventually convinced both the cardroom and the players to go with 20/40 which was a mistake in my opinion as it seems to be a little too big for most. You can buy into a 15/30 game with $500 and have a fighting chance to play for the night without a re-buy. In 20/40, 2 racks is almost mandatory just to start with and seems to be a little too big for most players. Depending on where you are playing and how much money people have for poker this may or may not be the case.

2 chip structure games (10/20 limit) tend to be more nitty and who wants that?

Have only played limit once, but this is helpful and makes a ton of sense. Thank you!

 

[Nanook]

Have only played limit once, but this is helpful and makes a ton of sense. Thank you!

You are welcome...
Happy to help

 

[inca911]

Some new additions joining in the fun, in case my set is pushed to its limit. The new $40s (i.e., for a barrel of $2s) are a “dead-on balls accurate” match for wear. Marissa would approve of the @Gear labels....