Tourney Lowest chip T5 or T25? (1 Viewer)

[upNdown]

Every casino or cardroom tournament I've ever played in has had T25 as the lowest chip. But I haven't been doing this for very long and I haven't played outside of New England.
I see an awful lot of tournament chipsets that start with a T5. Is this a regional thing? Is starting with T25 a newer trend? Or is my limited anecdotal experience significant of nothing?

 

[BGinGA]

A lot of smaller tournaments use smaller starting stacks with a T5 base, even at the World Series. The T25 base (and larger 10,000 starting stacks) became popular in the mid-2000s during the WSOP/WPT poker boom.

 

[Trihonda]

Ya, I started out playing with a bunch of neighbors who used a T5, but to be honest, I've converted them to starting with T25. Just seems to make more sense... after all, these are the same guys who insisted on using a T5, a T10, a T25 and a T50 all in the same tourney... so gross...

 

[abby99]

I've hosted or played in tournaments where the lowest value was T5, T25, or T100, and even one T25 tournament played with a cash set with values times 100 ($0.25 = T25).

 

[Craig D]

Starting with a T$25 is often desirable in a casino setting because fewer chips are needed

The T$5 is fine as the smallest chip in play, and should make no difference to players

But you here, we like starting with T$5s is cheaper than starting with T$25s if buying retired casino chips

Have Fun

 

[Poker Zombie]

I have 2 chipsets that start with T5s and the remainder start with T25.

The T25 (as stated) is more economical. Consider the number of T5s needed to be meaningful (10-15 per player) vs the number of T25s needed (8-12).

The T5 tournaments however, play better for new players or for players that like to limp a lot. This is because everyone thinks they're doing ok, until they need to start making change. With T5's you can limp longer without needing that change. Also, the T5 blind structure tends to allow for a gentler increase in early blind levels.

Because we have a few players that only play on "Ladies Night", a once a year event, we break out the T5s for them. Also, if we get a new player - someone that has never played poker before - we will break out the T5 set, because we know there is a far greater chance that they will be limp-calling a lot.

I cannot say I've ever personally seen a casino use T5s, and I've played all over Vegas, Atlantic City, and about a dozen casinos in-between. Not saying they don't exist, but I haven't seen one.

 

[upNdown]

I guess because I'm used to playing in "real" tournaments with 25s, I don't like doing it with 5's. I tried it with a horseshoe set a couple of times, it it worked fine but I just didn't like it. And because the top end chips were so expensive, I couldn't justify moving up to the 25's, so I sold them off and bought some cool hot stamps.
But I guess in the end it's all psychological and personal preference, because the right blind structure will make either work fine.

 

[MD Mike]

You can play tournaments with just about anything as long as your levels increase as the same factor. I've played with 1s as the lowest so I could use the Horseshoe set.

You can do the same with quarters too. Just pretend they are 25s and the math works out the same ($1 is a T100, $5 is a T500, etc).

 

[Wils]

OK so why not have T1 as the smallest tourney chip? (The jump from a 500 chip to a 1k chip tilts me. Just seems like a waste of time)

 

[Ronoh]

OK so why not have T1 as the smallest tourney chip?

It's been done. Take away the mental aspect and 25/50-T10,000, 5/10-T2000, 1/2-T400 are all identical from a gameplay perspective... some people just can't wrap their heads around it. HYOH.

Personally I prefer using 25 as the lowest but I do have a soft spot for 5s as I learned tournament play on PokerStars.

For what it's worth, when it comes to HU sets I would suggest the most popular breakdown uses T5 even among those who hate using them in standard tournament sets.

 

[pltrgyst]

....(The jump from a 500 chip to a 1k chip tilts me. Just seems like a waste of time)

That's exactly why I favor starting with T5s. Unless it's a huge tournament, you don't need 1Ks at all.

 

[Poker Zombie]

OK so why not have T1 as the smallest tourney chip? (The jump from a 500 chip to a 1k chip tilts me. Just seems like a waste of time)

T1s are highly inefficient for coloring up. 5:1 (or 25:1) means a lot of chips that you are buying are simply removed from play early. A T25 gives a 4:1 (or 20:1) color-up ratio, meaning at the first color up you have spent less money to decorate the side table.

But if money is no object, T1s would be fine.

As for the T500-T1000 baby step, some custom sets use a T2000 instead. Most people I've talked to hate it, but it has it's adopters. Personally, T500-T1000 isn't a big issue for me. By the time I'm racing off T500s, we are down to a single table.

 

[Poker Zombie]

That's exactly why I favor starting with T5s. Unless it's a huge tournament, you don't need 1Ks at all.

I guess we have different ideas as to what counts as "huge". I run a 2 table rebuy tournament using T5s and a T3000 starting stack. That puts an estimated 78,000 on the table. I use T5000s to keep it manageable, and would not consider it "huge".

 

[Ronoh]

T1s are highly inefficient for coloring up. 5:1 (or 25:1) means a lot of chips that you are buying are simply removed from play early. A T25 gives a 4:1 (or 20:1) color-up ratio, meaning at the first color up you have spent less money to decorate the side table.

True on customs, ceramics and CCs but not so on most of the available casino sets being that you don't need to fork over silly money for the high denoms.

 

[Ronoh]

I guess we have different ideas as to what counts as "huge". I run a 2 table rebuy tournament using T5s and a T3000 starting stack. That puts an estimated 78,000 on the table. I use T5000s to keep it manageable, and would not consider it "huge".

With 78k total on the table not only would I personally not use 5000s but I'd use a blind structure that keeps 500s on the table. Who wants to be HU with so few chips in play?

 

[BGinGA]

Cannot believe I'm actually gonna say this, but....

The most efficient and economical tournament set - for nearly any size event - is a T.25-base set.

It plays almost exactly like a T25-base set, but without the funky T500-T1000 jump. It has the more economical 4:1 exchange rate on the first color-up. And the cost of casino chips in the denominations most used as tourney workhorse chips ($1, $5, $25) are relatively inexpensive.

A T.25 / T1 / T5 / T25 / T100 tourney set is very versatile and economical, and can utilize most T10000 blind structures with minor modification. A T20 chip can be substituted if desired, and only a handful of T500 chips are needed, even for very large events. Most single- or two-table events won't even get the T100 chips in play.

It's really the most logical of all available choices. Just don't also use it for your cash games.

 

[mummel]

Cannot believe I'm actually gonna say this, but....

The most efficient and economical tournament set - for nearly any size event - is a T.25-base set.

It plays almost exactly like a T25-base set, but without the funky T500-T1000 jump. It has the more economical 4:1 exchange rate on the first color-up. And the cost of casino chips in the denominations most used as tourney workhorse chips ($1, $25) are relatively inexpensive.

A T.25 / T1 / T5 / T25 / T100 tourney set is very versatile and economical, and can utilize most T10000 blind structures with minor modification. A T20 chip can be substituted if desired, and only a handful of T500 chips are needed, even for very large events. Most single- or two-table events won't even get the T100 chips in play.

It's really the most logical of all available choices. Just don't also use it for your cash games.

Do you have the starting stack breakdown for this structure?

 

[Poker Zombie]

With 78k total on the table not only would I personally not use 5000s but I'd use a blind structure that keeps 500s on the table. Who wants to be HU with so few chips in play?

That's just an average T5 / T3000 tournament. If attendance goes to 3 tables, (which I would describe as large, but not huge) you are looking at an estimated 113,000 on the table by the end, and that's assuming an average number of rebuys. If the players go into a rebuy frenzy, stacks get big - much too big for T500s alone.

Do I need the T5000s? Not usually, but if one player has the lion's share I'll break out the T5000. The T25,000 plays the same role in my sets starting with a T25. More of a safety blanket than a need.

But perhaps a little more about my journey would help explain...

My very first set was T5-T25-T100-T500. This worked fine with 6 player tournaments. When the group grew, I had to add on T1000s because just the T500s were unwieldy. The initial set was ABS, and slippery as hell, so any stack over 10 chips couldn't get pushed/pulled without making a mess. When I went to ceramics, I kept the T5 and the T1000, and also picked up a handful of T5000s, because they were custom and I wouldn't be able to just add on T5000s if the group grew again.

After that, I discovered CT/PCF. I began to give much more thought to chipsets, and my next 2 custom sets were T25 starters. Both included T25ks and they do occasionally make the table. Usually all the T1000s are right in front of @Ben, so it makes sence to swap out a few barrels with T5000s - however, my CPC T5000 chip was built on the condition that I wouldn't order "too many" of them (and they were level 9), so T25ks hit the table in larger events and for oddly economical reasons.

TL/DR: There are a hundred ways to build a chipset and blind structure. I prefer T25 as the small chip and the T500-T1000 jump.

 

[upNdown]

As for the T500-T1000 baby step, some custom sets use a T2000 instead. Most people I've talked to hate it, but it has it's adopters. Personally, T500-T1000 isn't a big issue for me. By the time I'm racing off T500s, we are down to a single table.

And again, every "real" tournament I've played in used T500's and T1,000's. I'd like to think these big cardrooms and casinos put some thought into their chip sets and have them for a reason, but who knows.
I remember reading something here about the T500 being called a "transitional" chip and that having them on the table (in lower quantities) keeps things moving smoothly. I'd liek to hear a detailed explanation of that rationale.

 

[pltrgyst]

I guess we have different ideas as to what counts as "huge". I run a 2 table rebuy tournament using T5s and a T3000 starting stack. That puts an estimated 78,000 on the table. I use T5000s to keep it manageable, and would not consider it "huge".

156 chips on the table at the end of the tournament is too many?

 

[Poker Zombie]

156 chips on the table at the end of the tournament is too many?

I have never colored up to just a single denomination in play. Can't even imagine the blind structure where that is likely.

 

[Poker Zombie]

And again, every "real" tournament I've played in used T500's and T1,000's. I'd like to think these big cardrooms and casinos put some thought into their chip sets and have them for a reason, but who knows.
I remember reading something here about the T500 being called a "transitional" chip and that having them on the table (in lower quantities) keeps things moving smoothly. I'd liek to hear a detailed explanation of that rationale.

Unlike cash sets, each denomination in a tournament set is a "workhorse" at one point or another - except the T500. It's job is to make the color up from T100 to T1000 manageable. Sure, they get bet, but most of the time the T500 is bet in conjunction with another denom - either T100s or T1000s. As such, you don't need a stack of T500s for each player. No matter how deep the starting stack goes, you don't need many T500s in the starting stack, and most of your T100s will conveniently color up to T1000s.

 

[BGinGA]

156 chips on the table at the end of the tournament is too many?

Not in my view. Ideally, it should be somewhere between 80 and 160 chips ( two denominations only), with the sweet spot right around 120 total in play. More chips (and denoms) are needed if antes are being used. YMMV.

I have never colored up to just a single denomination in play. Can't even imagine the blind structure where that is likely.

I have a wonderful single- or two-table high-denom structure where the end goal is to have ~only~ the glorious T25K chips in play.

It's a T500-base set/structure, with 10/10/7/6 starting stacks (T200K, or 200bb with 500/1000 opening blinds). The T500/T1000 chips are colored-up with T5000s, and the T5000 chips are later replaced with T25000s.

100 x T500
100 x T1000
100 x T5000
100 x T25000

Simply double the set size for 20 players. Can also support re-buys if using T150K starting stacks (10/10/7/4).

 

[MD Mike]

.... actually the most economical would be the T.005 or the T-ha'penny (see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halfpenny_(British_pre-decimal_coin) ) ... I find that starting with a ha'penny really....


J/k

Can you imagine?

 

[BGinGA]

I still maintain that the Busted Flush set has the best combination of denominations ever compiled.

 

[pltrgyst]

I have never colored up to just a single denomination in play. Can't even imagine the blind structure where that is likely.

So you keep some hundos on the table as well. Say that's four or eight more chips for each player.The total number of chips in play is still quite reasonable.

 

[nitzilla]

I tried to get my monthly group to use $1/$2 starting blinds so I could use my Hard Rock ChipCo set, they were not happy (I think I also won the game.... ), and kept complaining that they didn't know how to bet properly with such small denoms ($1, $5, $25, $100)........never tried it again.
Back to the T25, but now I'm wanting to use my Grand Vic T5 set, so maybe I could try that...

 

[upNdown]

and kept complaining that they didn't know how to bet properly with such small denoms

Quite a thinktank you've got there, huh?

 

[Poker Zombie]

So you keep some hundos on the table as well. Say that's four or eight more chips for each player.The total number of chips in play is still quite reasonable.

Then that's a fundamental difference. Only 4 per player of the lowest denom is unreasonable in my book. I'd rather have a dozen of the smallest denom on the table at any given time so I can play poker, not the making change game.

 

[Jambine]

Quite a thinktank you've got there, huh?

.....so the red ones are $5 ?