Tourney Making Change Etiquette (2 Viewers)

[Trihonda]

I play several weekly tourneys, with some fairly competent (some not) players. Often, these are in bars and self dealt. In one such self dealt game, there are a number of old school players that tend to have weird etiquette when it comes to making change. It's common-place for players to toss in larger denom chips and make change from bets/calls that are in front of other players. Often enough, it invariably gets raised/re-raised, then these players wind up having to recreate each their stacks. It'd be funny, if it didn't slow the game down painfully...

One other minor aspect of this, is it could potentially modify the feel or mannerisms on which a bet is placed. I know this is a very minor issue, but if you're particular about your bet sizing, and potentially on HOW you cut out chips...maybe trying to do the same things each time (not give off tells), and at the last minute, someone takes change from your stack right before you act, it might change things, or the appearance of the raise. Who knows...

I ran into this in a weekly I just played today. I was UTG+1 with KK and I raised to 2.5x. UTG+2 min raised me, and TWO other players called. After these players called (by throwing in larger chips), some were taking change from MY bet. SO when it got back to me (with an obv re-raise pending). The issue was when I pulled back the remainder of my initial bet, and put out bigger chips, the pot still owed me money. It was a tad confusing (maybe I'm just getting old...?). In the end, it didn't really affect the outcome of the hand, but that's not the point.

After the hand, I nicely suggested the table consider making change once all the betting action was completed. I also asked that players not make change from my bets until action was closed. I had one OMC guy get huffy and said people can take change from the pot whenever they want, and that once I put my bet in, it's part of the pot. I chose not to get into an argument. I'd said my peace, and wasn't going to stress about it. For the record, I think that OMC was cranky to begin with. LOL

To be clear, this is a question on what others allow/accept on change making, and though I have an opinion on it (sure), but I understand it's not that big a deal. It doesn't get me on tilt or anything. I'm just curious how do other people feel about this and how they run this in their self-dealt home games?

 

[trigs]

Games I play never let you take change until betting is complete. Keeps things simple and avoids confusion.

 

[Trihonda]

Games I play never let you take change until betting is complete. Keeps things simple and avoids confusion.

That’s my understanding on the best way to do it... BUT, despite this game being filled with “big-time” Players, it’s still a bar game, so my expectations aren’t ever going to be high...

 

[DoubleEagle]

Games I play never let you take change until betting is complete. Keeps things simple and avoids confusion.

I am a big fan of this and I implemented it in our weekly tourney. After three weeks I was getting so much static from most of the other players that I backed off. I was told it was “just plain stupid.”

 

[Shaggy]

Just tell them it is best to wait until the round of betting is over before making change... when they don't listen... and are raised... and have to figure out what the hell happened... remind them (needle) that they should wait until betting is over.

Mind you the only reason to do this is because the delay affects your amount of play and your overall enjoyment of the game... this has nothing to do with you being right and teaching them how to do it right.

If it didn't delay the game... I couldn't care less... unless they are making change from my bet. Them touching my chips would result in stern discussion.

 

[Beakertwang]

My guys are all relatively inexperienced, so an initial explanation and a couple reminders was all it took. I’ve played in a few Lions Club charity tourneys with a bunch of old timers, and I’d hate to try to tell them to change their ways.

 

[Trihonda]

My guys are all relatively inexperienced, so an initial explanation and a couple reminders was all it took. I’ve played in a few Lions Club charity tourneys with a bunch of old timers, and I’d hate to try to tell them to change their ways.

Ya I wasn’t trying to boss around this bunch of OMCs. But grabbing my chips to make change?

I’d never heard this rule that once my bet was placed in front of me, even before the action has closed, they were available for everyone to make change. .

 

[Beakertwang]

@Trihonda, what does OMC stand for?

 

[Pokerdweebz]

@Trihonda, what does OMC stand for?

"Old Man Coffee" - a retired, mean, old guy who does nothing but lose his pension at the 2/4 limit game and complain about the way things used to be. If he raises it's only aces (maybe kings if you brought him regular instead of decaf)

 

[Trihonda]

"Old Man Coffee" - a retired, mean, old guy who does nothing but lose his pension at the 2/4 limit game and complain about the way things used to be. If he raises it's only aces (maybe kings if you brought him regular instead of decaf)

Lmao. ^^. Pretty accurate

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Not all OMCs are mean, but they are all nitty

 

[Justin Olson]

Games I play never let you take change until betting is complete. Keeps things simple and avoids confusion.

+1 for this in cash and tourney

I also hate the players that take the large denom chips from the pot in the middle of hands. I know players that are more apt to call a bet if you leave the chips in the pot because they like to collect the larger denom chips. And when you figure out the collectors you can get an extra call every so often.

 

[Lemonzest]

Games I play never let you take change until betting is complete. Keeps things simple and avoids confusion.

There is no rule but usually we make change between hands and from other peoples stacks.

Way less confusion.

 

[MikesDad]

Not all OMCs are mean, but they are all nitty

Hey.. I resemble that remark!

 

[BGinGA]

Cash games can sometimes be a little more tolerant, but in tournaments -- ours, and most professionally run events -- only the dealer can make change or touch other people's bets. And it makes no difference if it's a self-dealt game or not -- if they aren't ~your~ chips, hands-off. Too many cooks spoil the broth.

 

[Gobbs]

I've been in a couple games that, if you touch chips that aren't yours, you may be pulling back a bloody stump. If they aren't your chips (or your cards), don't touch them.

 

[trever]

Well, at least they didn't touch your card protector.

In a friends and family game, making change mid-action is tolerable, but still wrong.

In a game with strangers, they should wait until all betting is complete.

 

[Frogzilla]

This is incredibly common around here (Texas). May have to do with lack of experience in casinos. Even at @CraigT78 very well organized, clear rules game, you will see it from 25-50% of the players.

I think everyone is well-intentioned trying to speed up game, and after a while you get used to it.

If a situation does happen where change made out of bets is causing the action to be unclear, the quickest resolution I’ve found is to break down the chip in front of whomever made change (out of my stack), and then fix the bets.
Example: player 1 bets $3.75, player 2 calls with a $5 and takes $1.25 back to his stack ($2.50 now sitting in front of player 1). Action later (raise to $14) makes the action to 1 unclear. I’d break down the $5 in front of player 2 to 4X 1, 4x .25, and move the $1.25 change from player 2 bet to player 1 bet. Now they each have $3.75 in front of them and we can move on

 

[CraigT78]

Even at @CraigT78 very well organized, clear rules game, you will see it from 25-50% of the players.

I've given up trying to change this behavior. Instead I try and break the big chip with my stack. It's one of those things that just won't stick - like trying to get Fred to stop splashing the pot

 

[RowdyRawhide]

If I'm not at a casino or a game with a dedicated dealer I fully expect this to happen and be considered 'normal' It doesn't make it right, but that's the 'rake' of playing in casual games

 

[trigs]

Instead I try and break the big chip with my stack.

I will try to do this as well if I have the chips available, especially when I'm hosting. It's mostly like a precaution to avoid any issues.

 

[MrCatPants]

This is incredibly common around here (Texas). May have to do with lack of experience in casinos. Even at @CraigT78 very well organized, clear rules game, you will see it from 25-50% of the players.

I think everyone is well-intentioned trying to speed up game, and after a while you get used to it.

Being in Texas, I second this. Also have a lot of players who struggle with the single chip without a verbal is a call rule. I'm having a bear of a time getting my players on both of these, but they're not fighting so I'm still trying.

 

[SendThatStack]

Do most people use one chip rule in home games?

 

[DoubleEagle]

Do most people use one chip rule in home games?

Absolutely, and everyone understands it. Not that way in the beginning though.

 

[Craig D]

You tried to sort it, but is not your game

You have two choices:

Stop playing in the game
Get over it and play in the game

For my own sanity I quit playing in poorly run games, it worked out great for me and them

Have Fun

 

[JustinInMN]

After the hand, I nicely suggested the table consider making change once all the betting action was completed. I also asked that players not make change from my bets until action was closed. I had one OMC guy get huffy and said people can take change from the pot whenever they want, and that once I put my bet in, it's part of the pot. I chose not to get into an argument

I officially proclaim you made the right suggestion, gave it your best shot and there really isn't any more you can do.

I agree with the other posters that waiting until the bets are scooped is the best way to settle up and I teach that in all games I host.

But when I am not the host, I decide how much I am willing to bend. Most games I choose play the same way, however.

 

[JustinInMN]

Being in Texas, I second this. Also have a lot of players who struggle with the single chip without a verbal is a call rule. I'm having a bear of a time getting my players on both of these, but they're not fighting so I'm still trying.

Do most people use one chip rule in home games?

I do and I think it's a bigger issue than change making. Players need to a know a single chip can stand for any amount up to that value and the situation (whether or not they face a bet) dictates the value absent a declaration.

With new players I will always call time when a single chip comes in absent a declaration to get clarification, with the reminder a single chip is a call when facing a bet absent a declaration. A couple of those usually make the point.

 

[SendThatStack]

Does a single chip count as a minbet when facing no bets?

 

[Frogzilla]

Does a single chip count as a minbet when facing no bets?

Never played like that anywhere I’ve played

 

[MrCatPants]

We play that without a verbal that chip is the bet. The reason for the one chip rule when facing bet is the potential angle shooting - facing a raise it can be a "I need my change" and a fold. On the other side it can intimidate someone into a fold without stating that it's just a call.