Matsui Racks...why? (2 Viewers)

[BearMetal]

Thanks for linking @BearMetal, it sounds like I should be ok if BGINGA has had no measurable issues, I am going to not panic buy 100 racks.

You mean like I did? Let me know if you need any Matsui measurements that you're missing. Some birdcages don't hold Matsui/Apache racks and some do. A birdcage that measures 8.75" wide (8 3/8" interior platform) will NOT fit Matsui racks. A birdcage that measures 9 5/8" wide (8 7/8" interior platform) WILL fit Matsui racks.

 

[ekricket]

and add a thicker bottom so they don't fall out, it will push them higher than the horizontal ones.

That’s a 3/4 inch gap. Those chips are 10 high. You think they need a bottom thicker than 3/4 inch to support 10 chips? Ok

 

[ekricket]

You mean like I did? Let me know if you need any Matsui measurements that you're missing. Some birdcages don't hold Matsui/Apache racks and some do. A birdcage that measures 8.75" wide (8 3/8" interior platform) will NOT fit Matsui racks. A birdcage that measures 9 5/8" wide (8 7/8" interior platform) WILL fit Matsui racks.

View attachment 656496

Now I understand your defense of Matsuis. They HAVE to be the best when you buy into them like that, otherwise it looks like you wasted money to other people. Nice to have disclosure on why you are so dismissive of other ideas.

 

[BearMetal]

Now I understand your defense of Matsuis. They HAVE to be the best when you buy into them like that, otherwise it looks like you wasted money to other people. Nice to have disclosure on why you are so dismissive of other ideas.

Not dismissive; just wanted to talk about them. I love the Matsui/Apache racks, but I fully admit you CANNOT travel with them. It's a limitation. I also love my Chipco racks b/c of how well-built and tight they are.

With that said, I can see vertical stacks being used for travel, but I can't see them beating Matsui's for storage.

Dude, let's not attack here; I thanked you for your picture and let's keep the discussion going (maybe even with some mockups).

 

[BGinGA]

You mean like I did? Let me know if you need any Matsui measurements that you're missing. Some birdcages don't hold Matsui/Apache racks and some do. A birdcage that measures 8.75" wide (8 3/8" interior platform) will NOT fit Matsui racks. A birdcage that measures 9 5/8" wide (8 7/8" interior platform) WILL fit Matsui racks.

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And yet all those birdcages will hold Paulson, Chipco, and PGI racks. Just sayin'.

I'm not missing anything being Matsui rack free.

 

[BearMetal]

And yet all those birdcages will hold Paulson, Chipco, and PGI racks. Just sayin'.

I'm not missing anything being Matsui rack free.

43mm? How do you store them if you're Matsui-free?

 

[BGinGA]

43mm chips are in 43mm racks, housed in either a 43mm/50mm carrier, or in a pelican-style plucked-foam case (the latter usually accompanied by 39mm racks as well).

 

[BearMetal]

43mm chips are in 43mm racks, housed in either a 43mm/50mm carrier, or in a pelican-style plucked-foam case (the latter usually accompanied by 39mm racks as well).

I went the pelican route as well at first. The Matsui's are just easier to work with in birdcages for me. 43mm/50mm carrier? Where do you buy those?

I found that the GSI carriers hit the sweet spot for me. I get them for $40 each shipped without racks and they fit my Matsui/Apache cases. For price/value/usability ratio, it works.

 

[BGinGA]

Oversize chip carriers are only available from casino product distributors.

 

[ekricket]

Oversize chip carriers are only available from casino product distributors.

I bought this one from Gene
All 43 mm in 43 mm racks
Even the DDLM are 43’s

it had a lock I removed because I didn’t want to keep up with the key

 

[liftapint]

Team Matsui racks. I store them on their side, so the chips are actually stacked.
What do I win?

Somehow, I don't mind chips moving around in Matsui racks, but in open racks (Paulson, ChipCo), it used to really bug me when they didn't fit tight (but not too tight). One rack style, works with 39mm and 43mm, different thickness of chips. Works for me. But they are flimsy, do allow for a lot of chip movement, and obviously aren't for everyone. That's why there are different choices out there!! Yay!

 

[ekricket]

Team Matsui racks. I store them on their side, so the chips are actually stacked.
What do I win?

Somehow, I don't mind chips moving around in Matsui racks, but in open racks (Paulson, ChipCo), it used to really bug me when they didn't fit tight (but not too tight). One rack style, works with 39mm and 43mm, different thickness of chips. Works for me. But they are flimsy, do allow for a lot of chip movement, and obviously aren't for everyone. That's why there are different choices out there!! Yay!


View attachment 656506

But, but, they will fall over if you stack them like that!!!!

 

[liftapint]

But, but, they will fall over if you stack them like that!!!!

Depends how you stack them! (photo stolen from @Darson, because I don't have a photo of mine)

 

[BearMetal]

Depends how you stack them! (photo stolen from @Darson, because I don't have a photo of mine)

Please tell me that your chips inside are color-matched to the case

 

[BearMetal]

I bought this one from Gene
All 43 mm in 43 mm racks
Even the DDLM are 43’s

Yeah, I got one from Gene too in his very limited sale. It arrived with the screws pulling out from the bottom, so I had to send it back and he was all sold out at that point.

 

[BGinGA]

I bought this one from Gene
All 43 mm in 43 mm racks
Even the DDLM are 43’s

it had a lock I removed because I didn’t want to keep up with the key

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Ah, yes, forgot about those. I even own one, although it arrived broken and has never been used.

I have two other casino-style oversize carriers, which are heavy-duty construction. Both purchased used.

 

[Ben8257]

Lots of discussion here, fun!! Sorry for yet another Ben book

First off, @ekricket I agree that storing chips flat I believe would cut down on warpage issues as I believe a lot of that comes for not using gravity to your advantage. Any slack in a rack means chips are leaning one way or the other for a prolonged amount of time, that side pressure on a chip mixed with temp and humidity changes I believe has a huge effect on chips. Even chips stored in paper boxes and not typically standing straight up and down and a "rack is designed to keep pressure off a single point on a chips edge. I do not store chips in boxes personally I would rather have them in racks. I could definitely see the advantage of keeping the side pressure off of the chips though. On height. One rack is made to overlap the rack below so the only height you are loosing with a traditional rack system is below the bottom rim and you could cut those racks down so you loose a lot of that dead space If it was really an issue, but who would want to keep track of which rack goes where?

I could see a plastic rack with vertical posts and room between for access to the chips and those posts being close tolerances not to allow the chips to slide around. They could even have a detent in the next rack above to allow for an interlocking type system.

With traditional Paylson/chipco/ other racks I try not to ever exceed 7 racks in height in an effort to keep weight off the bottom racks. The majority of our collection are in cases and stored flat, in those cases the racks are never more than 3 rows high.

Inside looks like this

While I agree not a great way to display chips, we are keeping natural light and dust off of the chips while stored in airtight cases, also keeping humidity at check as well. These cases are stored in the basement where temps stay pretty consistent.

I guess for me I kind of agree with Dave, if it's not broke and has worked for many years then why fix it.

I would be interested if Matsui would make racks fit 39mm chips correctly, basically allow for extra plastic increasing the durability (which is minimal with these racks) and still be interchangeable with the 43mm system. So the physical racks would be the same external dimensions but actually cradle the 39mm chips correctly (by correctly I mean not a single point of contact! The bottom point and also weight bearing on the 45 deg angles as well) if those aspects were accounted for and the overall durability was increased I would be willing to pay double (bottom X2 for the top as well) for a properly built storage system.

The way they are now I do not think that Matsui racks are a good system for chip transport, there is too much movement allowed within the vessel. Yes the spacers and fillers help but far too much extra work needed and not very visually appealing.

I am with @BGinGA I will stick with air tight cases with pick foam and traditional racking until someone makes a truly superior product.

And for the record I own Matsui and the off brand version. They are great for cheap sunfly hybrid ceramics! Lol

Also as Dave mention with pick n pull you can fully customize for the other parts and pieces of the set

The cash set at the time was only 1,000 chips so I use a Apache 3800 case with one 39mm rack below the 43mm large denoms. The 2 center cases are 3 rows deep and hold 2,100 in each case, the far right case has 43mm octagon chips, 39mm, 43mm, 49mm and 60mm all in one case! You can customize them to house whatever you need. Again not great for displaying but I know my chips are safe and ready to go whenever we need to grab them.

Ben

 

[liftapint]

I actually store my chips in Matsui racks in bird cages. But I like that I can just grab the racks and put them in a Nanuk, and I'm on my way.
I don't really love having chips in open-top chip racks inside my travel case for some reason. Just a personal preference.

 

[Darson]

I wish Matsui or someone made a 40mm clam shell rack so that I don't have to be beholden to the paucity of Bud Jones racks.

As a travel solution, up to 700 chips in a Nanuk 910 stored vertically is an optimal setup for me. Yes, you can do 800 without the foam but I prefer the security that the foam gives. And it gets a bit too heavy on the arms.

Almost all my chips are in Bud Jones boxes in Nanuk 910s. The only ones that aren't are the ones that never leave the house.

 

[upNdown]

Does anyone have examples of chip damage from weight of other chips? I may have to order a ton of these if it is significant.

It's a short thread, but a good read. Members share their experience from long term storage of chips with and without weight on them:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/long-term-storage.48967/post-915406

I think the answer is no, not really. It's a topic that has come up occaisionally, over the years. In the above-linked post, Tommy shows a picture of what he thinks may be weight/rack chip damage. Without knowing what those marks were, all I can say is that nobody in that thread had another example of it. And off the top of my head, aside from people with concerns with those racks where the chips in the ends of the barrels sit higher than the rest, I can't ever remember anybody else showing examples of rack/weight damage to chips.
I say all this because I'm biased against the ugly matsui style racks. If you like them because they can hold 39mm chips and 43mm chips, and fit in a birdacge, I can't argue with any of that. I just don't want to see people circulating unsubstantiated rumors as reasons why we should fear the decades-long successful standard 39mm acryllic rack.

 

[BearMetal]

I say all this because I'm biased against the ugly matsui style racks. If you like them because they can hold 39mm chips and 43mm chips, and fit in a birdacge, I can't argue with any of that. I just don't want to see people circulating unsubstantiated rumors as reasons why we should fear the decades-long successful standard 39mm acryllic rack.

Yeah, I think there was nothing conclusive drawn from that thread. But how upset would it be to be proven wrong and suddenly those great chips you had stacked 5 racks high have some kind of marks on them after a few years. I needed to be able to sleep at night, so Matsui I went.

 

[ekricket]

I wish Matsui or someone made a 40mm clam shell rack so that I don't have to be beholden to the paucity of Bud Jones racks.

As a travel solution, up to 700 chips in a Nanuk 910 stored vertically is an optimal setup for me. Yes, you can do 800 without the foam but I prefer the security that the foam gives. And it gets a bit too heavy on the arms.

Almost all my chips are in Bud Jones boxes in Nanuk 910s. The only ones that aren't are the ones that never leave the house.

View attachment 656534

Hmmm looks like three racks of flat stacked chips. I bet they take up the same room if you stacked them vertically. Imagine those made in twelve high stacks (instead of 10 or 20) for starting stack ease. I think they would be stable.

 

[Darson]

Hmmm looks like three racks of flat stacked chips. I bet they take up the same room if you stacked them vertically. Imagine those made in twelve high stacks (instead of 10 or 20) for starting stack ease. I think they would be stable.

When conventionally stacked, two racks on top of each other (left) are too tall for the case so they have to be side by side (right):

This is a travel T10k tourney set. The chips are 12/17/4/6 for 10 players (39 chips plus a bounty) so fit four racks perfectly.

I then have a barrel of rebuy chips, a barrel of 1000s and some 5k/25k plaques for rebuys. Cards and dealer button all ready to go:

 

[BGinGA]

Yeah, I think there was nothing conclusive drawn from that thread. But how upset would it be to be proven wrong and suddenly those great chips you had stacked 5 racks high have some kind of marks on them after a few years. I needed to be able to sleep at night, so Matsui I went.

15+ years of stacking up to ten racks high and no damage. I sleep fine.

 

[JK_Poker]

I’m looking at getting this bird cage in the future. Does anybody have one of these and can confirm that Apache racks fit in them?

 

[Ocharacato]

I’m looking at getting this bird cage in the future. Does anybody have one of these and can confirm that Apache racks fit in them?

I don’t know about that particular one, but I bought 3 of these (in different occasions) and they all fit Matsui/Apache racks

https://www.discountpokershop.com/1000-piece-acrylic-chip-carrier-p-199.html

 

[BNM]

Display. Display. Display. Other racks have a much better fit for the chips, but keeping the weight off them is nice and it’s the best way to see more of the chips when they are in the rack.

Do what you prefer naturally!

 

[BearMetal]

@ekricket - I'm working on some vertical storage models for my 47mm ceramics right now. I'll post my model when I'm done with it. My poor little 3D printer might not be able to do more than 2 columns next to each other, but it's a good test to see how it would work out.

 

[BearMetal]

Alright, so my (kid's) 3D printer can only make 1 barrel at a time. I needed to come up with a way of locking them together to make a "rack" so I decided to try a kind of cleat. Here's my first attempt (which is printing now) so we'll see how this comes out...

 

[ekricket]

Alright, so my (kid's) 3D printer can only make 1 barrel at a time. I needed to come up with a way of locking them together to make a "rack" so I decided to try a kind of cleat. Here's my first attempt (which is printing now) so we'll see how this comes out...

View attachment 668613

View attachment 668614

Looking nice!