Murder vs No Murder & Why (2 Viewers)

[FDLmold]

I collect both singles and sets. In general, people who own things can do whatever they like with them. If I sell a house, I can't care anymore about what the new owners do to it or how they maintain it. The same goes for chips, no matter what type. I don't think I've seen a murdered rack yet where I said to myself, "I really wish they didn't do that." I'm sitting here trying to think of a rack that would disappoint me if it was murdered, but the only racks that come to mind are highly collectible and would never get murdered anyway.

 

[Josh Kifer]

I collect both singles and sets. In general, people who own things can do whatever they like with them. If I sell a house, I can't care anymore about what the new owners do to it or how they maintain it. The same goes for chips, no matter what type. I don't think I've seen a murdered rack yet where I said to myself, "I really wish they didn't do that." I'm sitting here trying to think of a rack that would disappoint me if it was murdered, but the only racks that come to mind are highly collectible anyway and would never get murdered anyway.

Is this why you burn sage in every room after I leave? I thought you just loved sage. Sonofa.....

 

[Jeff]

My opinions about chip murder have softened considerably. Some of the murdered chips have come back to life as pretty kick-ass reincarnations. Sometimes even better than the originals.

 

[Josh Kifer]

My opinions about chip murder have softened considerably. Some of the murdered chips have come back to life as pretty kick-ass reincarnations. Sometimes even better than the originals.

 

[Poker Zombie]

At the same time I would not buy a collectable that is worth a significant amount of money as a gift just as I would not buy a Rolex off the street vendor for $500 thinking I was doing my Rolex collector friend a favor

I guess the question is how many people are buying $3000+ collectibles as gifts from unscrupulous dealers/sellers.

Nevermind the full sets then. How about a $20-$100 single? Not life-changing money, but a sorry position to put someone in.

Just say no to forgeries, and you avoid the problem all together.

 

[Nanook]

Nevermind the full sets then. How about a $20-$100 single? Not life-changing money, but a sorry position to put someone in.

No doubt. No one would like that....

Just say no to forgeries, and you avoid the problem all together.

My comeback to this would be that you don't need to avoid murder all together to stay away from forgeries.

I would say that is safe to say that almost all, if not all, chips that get murdered by our members here have nothing to do with chip forgery.

 

[HaRDHouSeiNC]

Open season if I know lots are laying around
Inlay replacement is better

 

[Budha]

Nevermind the full sets then. How about a $20-$100 single? Not life-changing money, but a sorry position to put someone in.

Just say no to forgeries, and you avoid the problem all together.

Yes - you are right. Everyone should stop doing what they are doing immediately. I’m not sure what I was thinking.

I guess I never realized how the chips I use in my game, on my table, and in my house could so drastically effect society at large.

 

[Poker Zombie]

When I say it's not life changing, it kind of infers that it was going to "drastically effect society". However, you seem to think that your own personal set seems to have a world-wide significance. Let me break the news to you, it does not.

However, as a member of a chip-collecting community, I understand that creating fake chips that appear to be authentic under casual scrutiny could cause potential problems. Much the same way the ESST set looked close enough to the WSOP secondaries that the WSOP changed their set out. Under no circumstances could the chips chips I use in my game, on my table, and in my house so drastically effect the WSOP, but I'm also not going to laugh at Caesars for changing out the chips.

The concern is real. Knock-offs present certain problems. The more realistic, the more likely the problem.

If you want to produce a bunch of US currency for your home Monopoly games, have at it. What you do in your game, on your table, and in your house isn't going to affect society at large - however the US Treasury department may view it a little differently.

...and they probably wont use an emoji in their communications.

 

[Poker Zombie]

No doubt. No one would like that....


My comeback to this would be that you don't need to avoid murder all together to stay away from forgeries.

I would say that is safe to say that almost all, if not all, chips that get murdered by our members here have nothing to do with chip forgery.

I am not anti-chip murder. I have de-labeled chips (see post #24). I was just agreeing with those that think murder can be a gateway to fakery, and that creates an issue.

I may find it a little sad when a rare chip is murdered, but even then, some of them deserve to have a better life (I'm looking at you grandma Jessie Beck).

 

[upNdown]

I am not anti-chip murder. I have de-labeled chips (see post #24). I was just agreeing with those that think murder can be a gateway to fakery, and that creates an issue.

I may find it a little sad when a rare chip is murdered, but even then, some of them deserve to have a better life (I'm looking at you grandma Jessie Beck).

Man, you had me all the way, then you had to take a shot at poor old granny.

 

[allforcharity]

I like tributes for ex-casino chips, but don't like exacting copies of inlays. When I made fracs for my Grouse Mountain set, I based it on the white solid THC of the original chip, but changed the denom to red so it could not be mistaken for the original chip even on casual scrutiny.

 

[Budha]

When I say it's not life changing, it kind of infers that it was going to "drastically effect society". However, you seem to think that your own personal set seems to have a world-wide significance. Let me break the news to you, it does not.

However, as a member of a chip-collecting community, I understand that creating fake chips that appear to be authentic under casual scrutiny could cause potential problems. Much the same way the ESST set looked close enough to the WSOP secondaries that the WSOP changed their set out. Under no circumstances could the chips chips I use in my game, on my table, and in my house so drastically effect the WSOP, but I'm also not going to laugh at Caesars for changing out the chips.

The concern is real. Knock-offs present certain problems. The more realistic, the more likely the problem.

If you want to produce a bunch of US currency for your home Monopoly games, have at it. What you do in your game, on your table, and in your house isn't going to affect society at large - however the US Treasury department may view it a little differently.

...and they probably wont use an emoji in their communications.

you really do have a knack for extending the straw-man to the ridiculous and then thinking your point is well proven - LOL.

Wow - that was a quick escalation from the poor hypothetical soul who bought a fake $100 chip off eBay to the WSOP chip security- lol.

Sooo, by your logic, you could accidentally cause a fatal car accident tomorrow, Therefore you shouldn’t drive. And you are wrong to do so b/c there is the “chance” it could cause a problem.

See, aren’t strawman’s FUN!!

 

[feltschmerz]

I just don't see any moral dimension to this question at all.

If the alternative to murdering a bunch of chips were to send out sample sets to museums all over the world, there could be a moral aspect to it. But the alternative is putting the chips back into circulation to be hoarded by private collectors.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Sooo, by your logic, you could accidentally cause a fatal car accident tomorrow, Therefore you shouldn’t drive. And you are wrong to do so b/c there is the “chance” it could cause a problem.

Unfortunately, driving is a required part of our society in most cities. Creating a forged chip is never required.

Never.

14 sets now, not a single forgery.

I, of course, cant stop people from making them. But I certainly am not going to like them, or their existence. The OP asked "What is your opinion & why?" I simply stated my perspective, and why. You went all totally defensive, which doesn't address the original question. You did defend with "It’s only counterfeit if they try and pass it off as such", and I drew the conclusions made by the WSOP, and what I am pretty sure US Treasury department would make.

They don't care if someone has tried to pass them off. They care that someone could pass them off. I wasn't intentionally misrepresenting your proposition. You simply were blind to my point. I hope this makes it clear.

 

[Taghkanic]

Overlabeling allows you to retain the value of the underlying chip if you ever decide to sell the set, or swap out one denom for something different.

If I were making a “forever” or commemorative set, then I’d go with murder.

 

[Colquhoun]

I don’t think it will ever rise to the level of counterfeiting, but milling/relabeling could certainly lead to confusion.
Especially among a seller that doesn’t know what they have, or a buyer that doesn’t realize what they’re buying…or both.

 

[Budha]

Unfortunately, driving is a required part of our society in most cities. Creating a forged chip is never required.

Never.

14 sets now, not a single forgery.

I, of course, cant stop people from making them. But I certainly am not going to like them, or their existence. The OP asked "What is your opinion & why?" I simply stated my perspective, and why. You went all totally defensive, which doesn't address the original question. You did defend with "It’s only counterfeit if they try and pass it off as such", and I drew the conclusions made by the WSOP, and what I am pretty sure US Treasury department would make.

They don't care if someone has tried to pass them off. They care that someone could pass them off. I wasn't intentionally misrepresenting your proposition. You simply were blind to my point. I hope this makes it clear.

Sigh

I took issue with this…

You obviously have never had a collectable purchased for you as a gift. Or maybe you think the gift buyer is at fault for buying a forgery?

Hmmmm….maybe it’s you?

 

[CrazyEddie]

Chips I would murder:
Anything that is readily available in quantity is fair game as far as I am concerned. Chips like fantasy sets, starbursts, anything live or TCR chips are all ok to murder to me. There is basically no limit to how many could be had & no collectible value beyond just the basic chip price so I see no reason to hold off.

If you have a readily available quantity of black or yellow starbursts, please let me know.

(...dibs)

 

[CrazyEddie]

And if you are a collector, fewer chips in circulation is a good thing for your collections, right?

Fewer chips in circulation means FEWER CHIPS IN MY COLLECTION, so, no.

 

[Josh Kifer]

If you have a readily available quantity of black or yellow starbursts, please let me know.

(...dibs)

Sorry, I milled all of them. In existence.

 

[CrazyEddie]

MYAAH

 

[Nanook]

Sorry, I milled all of them. In existence.

Wow, you must have been really busy lately!

 

[Josh Kifer]

Wow, you must have been really busy lately!

It was a wild Saturday for me..... I've been up for 62 hours.....

 

[ovo]

Haven't committed murder yet. I've done a label over, but that is about it. I have thought about true murder, but it's hard for me. I certainly wouldn't kill most chips that are old, rare, beautiful as they are, etc... But what I hate seeing, as others have said already, is someone killing one day and selling the next day, when they decide they don't want them anymore. Serial Killers, that kill for the fun of it, should be brought to justice.

 

[ovo]

Interesting, talking about creating counterfeit label to look real in the collecting community, changing the quality of the chip to make it look better. Milling, restamping, now we have shaving off the edges, no disrespect to RivieraDanny as the service is very interesting, or any other vendors providing milling or labels, but how do the collectors feel ? Now we can take a rounded chip, sharpen up the edges, from 39mm to 38mm, and the buyer would never know until they get it in their hands.

 

[Nanook]

Interesting.......Now we can take a rounded chip, sharpen up the edges, from 39mm to 38mm, and the buyer would never know until they get it in their hands.

No one that asks for a reasonably good/sharp pic is ever going to mistake a chip whith square edge & no crosshatching whatsoever with one that has square edges and most/all of the crosshatching in tact. You have to admit that it would be tough to add crosshatching to a chip that has been worn smooth....

Just sayin

 

[ovo]

No one that asks for a reasonably good/sharp pic is ever going to mistake a chip whith square edge & no crosshatching whatsoever with one that has square edges and most/all of the crosshatching in tact. You have to admit that it would be tough to add crosshatching to a chip that has been worn smooth....

Just sayin

not sure I understand crosshatching on the edge, I've seen tool lines that do wear down with age, yet still have a sharp edge

 

[upNdown]

Interesting, talking about creating counterfeit label to look real in the collecting community, changing the quality of the chip to make it look better. Milling, restamping, now we have shaving off the edges, no disrespect to RivieraDanny as the service is very interesting, or any other vendors providing milling or labels, but how do the collectors feel ? Now we can take a rounded chip, sharpen up the edges, from 39mm to 38mm, and the buyer would never know until they get it in their hands.

It’s the devil’s work! If people like sharp-edged 37mm chips that fit 22 to a barrel, there’s nothing I can do about that. But if you ask my opinion? No sir, I don’t like it.

 

[Jeff]

I think chip murder is not the right way to characterize what is going on. Inlay dysphoria…requiring Inlay Replacement Surgery.