Cash Game New Cash Game (1 Viewer)

[Vince Bustillo]

I absoultely hate this rule. Here's an example why -- let's say I buy in for $40, get dealt AA, get it all-in preflop, and get bad beat and lose. Rebuy for $40 again, get bad beat again, and now the host tells me I can only rebuy for another $20, and if I lose that $20, whether a bad beat or not, I have to leave the game!?! Makes no sense. I've played in games before, where I lost my first 4 buy-ins, but was able to make it all back, but I wouldn't even have the chance to do that under these rules.

I prefer to 'shut down the excessively agro deep pockets' by playing better poker than they do (or at least trying to play better poker). If hosts of some of the games I played in ever tried to 'shut down the agro players' with such a rule, the regulars would mutiny against the host. Agro players are the types of players that can make the game exciting and drive the action.

If your player pool is a group of more casual friends that likes playing smaller stakes, I'm all for lowering the blinds and/or lowering the buy-ins (to say $20 or $30), or playing some variant of Limit poker instead of NL, not by assigning an arbitrary cap to the total buy-in amount per night.

AWenger, I would never shut down rebuys. In my game, you can rebuy as much as you want I'm just trying to reduce the small guys getting pushed around. I ended up doing a max $60 buy-in with unlimited rebuys. This ended up being pretty good for everyone that showed up.

 

[BGinGA]

Sounds like that crowd would be better suited for a limit game perhaps?

Or tournaments. Fixed buy-in amount. Optional re-buy.

 

[AWenger]

However, believe it or not, there are plenty of people out there who don't want to play a high action game where they're having to make decisions for all their chips

because someone keeps going all in.

err... your players aren't really learning how to play no-limit hold'em then. One of the inherent rules of no limit hold'em is a player can wager up to all his chips.

There's nothing wrong with limit poker games, or spread limit games (i.e. capping betting within a range, say from $0.25 - $2 a bet), or lowering the blinds so starting stacks are deeper, if short stacks are causing the all-ins. I used to play 10 cent/20 cent blinds where buy-ins were $20. (100 big blinds to start). Having starting stacks be less than 80 or 100 BB, or having blinds too high relative to starting stacks, can create games where players shove all-in more frequently.

 

[crussader]

err... your players aren't really learning how to play no-limit hold'em then.

Poker has been played for a lot of years. All this preflop aggression is a relatively new phenomena. "Can" wager all of his chips is much different than I should jam every time I have a mathematical edge. How often do you see the pros shove pre-flop (even with aces)?

The problem is not where you set the starting stacks or blinds. The real problem is trying to integrate players that are used to playing at significantly higher stakes. If you have someone that regularly plays $200 buy-ins and put them with a group comfortable only playing $20 buy-ins it is inevitable that they will push around the small guys, which is what the OP is trying to avoid.

As far as learning how to play, there is no way anyone can learn how to play under these circumstances. All the small player can do is fold, fold, fold, and then call the bet that puts them all in when they catch a monster hand. It may be profitable to play that way, but it's no fun. The recreational player is looking to have fun. If it's not fun, they will leave.

And usually the deep pocket usually isn't playing serious poker. Any bet is going to be trivial money so why not throw it in there and see what happens. I know my play would change if I set down at a one cent two cent game with $1.00 buy-in. Would you take it as serious as those for who it represents real money?

Or look at it another way. How would you like to play in a game where a player bet the buy-in limit on every hand? We had a guy in our 1/2 game that would automatically bet $25 blind every hand. The money was meaningless to him, but guess what it did to everyone's opening range. How much poker were we learning then? How is that "really playing poker"?

 

[boltonguy]

Pardon the ramble... Feel free not to read. But FWIW:

1) The players’ financial situations;

2) The players' skill levels; and

3) Whether they play more for fun, or for profit.​

I absolutely agree with this - I run a $0.25 / $0.50 NLHE monthly game and buy-in is $40 with $20 or $40 re-buys (no variables on buy-in or re-buy values to keep it simple). This works as ATMs spit out $20s and we play for fun. Last month we had 7 players and played from 7pm - 1130pm with football on at the same time. We had one $40 re-buy and one $20 re-buy; the $20 re-buy busted again and left around 10pm with me having to kick everyone else out at 1130pm and everyone remaining cashed something out.

So based on the above:
1. Our financial situations are such that $40 - $80 is easy to gamble with and risk losing. Top winner last month netted $70 so we're not talking big money at all for losers or winners.
2. Skill levels are beginner to intermediate
3. We're playing for fun, clearly

If we decide at some point to move to $0.50 / $1 NLHE I would up the buy-in to $80 to drive towards 100BB stacks. Honestly, I don't see the upside of raising the blind structure as all it does is put more $$$ on the table and at some point we may transition from fun to not fun and that is not the goal. I have some players that may balk at $100 buy-in and possible re-buy of similar size.

 

[AWenger]

How would you like to play in a game where a player bet the buy-in limit on every hand?

Save me a seat immediately, please.

Honestly, I don't see the upside of raising the blind structure as all it does is put more $$$ on the table and at some point we may transition from fun to not fun and that is not the goal.

^^ This.

How often do you see the pros shove pre-flop (even with aces)?

This is a good point. You are correct, going all-in preflop does not happen often in cash games with pros. Why is that -- it's mostly because the pros play in cash games where the starting stacks are often 100BB to 600 BB deep, or more.

How would you like to play in a game where a player bet the buy-in limit on every hand? We had a guy in our 1/2 game that would automatically bet $25 blind every hand.

What was the max buy-in in this $1/$2 no limit game? $25? $40? That's only 12.5 and 20 BB in the starting stack.

The problem is not where you set the starting stacks or blinds.

Not true. If a host chooses no limit cash games with max starting stacks of only 20 to 40 BB, the host is creating a shove-fest. Lowering the blinds, raising starting stacks, or a combination of both allows starting stacks to be deeper relative to the blinds.

 

[crussader]

What was the max buy-in in this $1/$2 no limit game? $25? $40?

$200 or half the big stack