New Project 43mm chips??? (1 Viewer)

[dew4au]

@Apache what size are the $1000 chips in the Par A Dice Casino set?

That's what I'm talking about. With a horseshoe mold to boot? Oh, my.

Not Apache, but it's a 43mm.

 

[TheOctagon]

I really hope this goes through. I definitely want to augment a set (probably the dunes... if it makes any sense design-wise) with one or two 43mm racks of huge denoms or bounties.

 

[TheOctagon]

I know we're still kind of way early on this concept, but I was looking through some of the limit set threads, and I was imagining a 2 denom limit set with the workhose at 39mm and the big denom at 43mm. I agree with the fact that the difference between the two sizes in a single set makes the larger chip that much more interesting by comparison.

 

[dew4au]

I be interested in either if it was on a horseshoe like mold.

 

[ohikthxbye]

Any possibility to add one to the Majestic line? I was getting the itch for a larger denom myself...

 

[mummel]

I finally popped my cherry. I had the chance to handle my first Paulsons this weekend The Horseshoes. Amazing chips. Some of the higher denoms are pure beauty. Works of art. The colors are vibrant and striking, and I think what gives them that feeling of being special is that the way the edge spots are made, they actually look hand painted vs something that just came off a conveyor belt. I love they way they "stick" to each other when stacking, handling and moving around. It's bliss. I couldnt really see the crosshatching marks but I assume they must be there to give them this nice sticking type property. I also love the way they feel on my fingers, their "clay" type texture. And the thing I liked most is the sharp edges! Wow. I've been looking at so much PrOn online but seeing them in person, great stuff. I can now see why Paulson is the leader in this space. Well done.

But what I was really surprised at is how much they sound like my Milanos when dropping chips to pile up a stack. The Milano China clay manufacturer really go this part right. They sound pretty much identical, and have the same weight feeling to them when dropping/handling. I'm not sure if the other China Clays are like this too, but I was really impressed.

It got me thinking. If they can do this part right, why not use some of the other neat properties of the Paulsons and provide a better quality chip at a lower price to the mass market? Surely its possible? Maybe not all the properties, but at least some of them.

The first one that jumps out at me is the sharp edges. Why do China clay manufacturers bevel their chips? Those sharp edges make a huge diffs in visual appeal. It would be a good place to start.

The other thing would be the "sticking" type property. To me this would probably be the most important. It's makes the chips feel professional to me. It feels great when stacking them and moving them around. I havent handled the CPS chips but the cross hatching looks pretty severe (visually). I cant even see the Paulson cross hatching. Surely there is a middle ground here?

Anyway, my $0.02 for the next "epic group buy" that someone mentioned

 

[MillyS]

It got me thinking. If they can do this part right, why not use some of the other neat properties of the Paulsons and provide a better quality chip at a lower price to the mass market? Surely its possible? Maybe not all the properties, but at least some of them.

It is possible, but that will just add to the cost of production and ultimately to us. At that point, you would be entering used Paulson's or CPC territory. China clays are designed/manufactured to keep within a certain price bracket and to serve a specific market.

 

[MD Mike]

It is possible, but that will just add to the cost of production and ultimately to us. At that point, you would be entering used Paulson's or CPC territory. China clays are designed/manufactured to keep within a certain price bracket and to serve a specific market.

I think because the China Clays are still injection molded, it's more cost effective for them to have the slightly beveled edges. Someone once mentioned the actual manufacturing technique used to mold the Chinese chips (I wish I could find that thread).

What would really be cool is if there was a Chinese manufacturer that offered true compression clay chips although I bet the import tariffs that are soon going into place with the next presidency is going to make getting Chinese chips much more expensive.

Unless I misinterpreted Mr. Trumps new policy agenda.

 

[pikeman56]

I love the idea of 43mm china clays. I would definitely be in on that GB...

 

[mummel]

Here are a few more examples
View attachment 64324 View attachment 64325 View attachment 64326 View attachment 64327 View attachment 64328 View attachment 64329 View attachment 64330

The more I look at this mold, the more excited I get haha. Keep the details coming.

One other thing I would highly recommend is to have ample labels and blanks for folks to customize their sets, similar to when the majestics first came out. I love the idea of being able to pick the nicest looking chips in the line (and we all have different personal preferences), and being able to slap whatever denom sticker we choose.

 

[pikeman56]

The more I look at this mold, the more excited I get haha. Keep the details coming.

One other thing I would highly recommend is to have ample labels and blanks for folks to customize their sets, similar to when the majestics first came out. I love the idea of being able to pick the nicest looking chips in the line (and we all have different personal preferences), and being able to slap whatever denom sticker we choose.

THIS!!

 

[mummel]

I'm actually really looking forward to this latest CC project. I got a bunch of samples recently for my displays and developed a good sense of what attributes of each chip I love best.

I got to say, although I'm not a fan of the way CPCs feel and sound, the scroll mold with small label really stands out. All the other chips have regular sized stickers and larger stickers (like the CC pharaohs and dunes), but the CPCs really jump out having more "clay" visible. I like it a lot (I'm not a fan of the large stickers like with the pharaohs). The more clay the better IMO. I can visualize the horseshoe mold posted earlier looking similar to the scroll mold setup and it would be +++.

The other thing that jumped out at me is how nice the dunes CCs felt. Although I'm not a fan of the color scheme (not very vibrant), and the label is really blah IMO, they way they shuffle and feel, and the way the dunes mold came out, very nicely done. My hope is that the manufacturer that @Apache is working with is improving their quality control and would be able to replicate this in future CC group buys. The way the material came out feels great!!! Please try and replicate this level of quality control!

As for colors and spots, I love the majestics (well most of them, the purple is blaaahh). I love how vibrant the colors are. But again, I would love an option where we could customize denom colors. I can't emphasize this enough. We all have our own preferences. I really hope this will be an option!!

Also worth mentioning the cross hatching on the CPS sucks IMO. They chips dont shuffle right and something just doesn't feel right. The cross hatching doesn't really stop the chips from sliding either. They slide just like all the other CCs so I'm confused as to what the benefit is.

As for the choice of sticker, I think a simple design with a horseshoe would be nice but I have zero design skills, like zero, so I can't really comment on what will look good. I just know it when I see it.

Please keep the updates coming. I'm staying tuned. Pretty excited to see how this all plays out. Thanks Josh.

 

[kk405]

I have been playing with a sample set of 43mm and 39mm Boardwalk chips. I really like the 43mm size, and would be awesome to have a complete CC set of 43mm chips in lower denominations and 50mm in 1K and above

 

[Poker Zombie]

But what I was really surprised at is how much they sound like my Milanos when dropping chips to pile up a stack. The Milano China clay manufacturer really go this part right. They sound pretty much identical, and have the same weight feeling to them when dropping/handling. I'm not sure if the other China Clays are like this too, but I was really impressed.

Either you seriously need to have your hearing checked, or you're just tone deaf. Paulsons have a very solid slap, whereas the Milanos rise in pitch, the same way you would end a sentence with a slightly higher pitch when asking a question.

I'm not knocking Milanos, but they don't sound just like Paulsons.

It got me thinking. If they can do this part right, why not use some of the other neat properties of the Paulsons and provide a better quality chip at a lower price to the mass market? Surely its possible? Maybe not all the properties, but at least some of them.

The formulas chips manufacturers use is a closely guarded secret. Paulson chips are essentially money. to mimic the formula would be expensive in both R&D and probably difficult to obtain materials (CPC has had issues in the past with suppliers). Then there are the skills and or machinery needed. Look at the fiasco of ASM Vegas when trying to produce chips using the same exact machines, materials and formulas. It's not something that anyone can just knock-off.

The other thing would be the "sticking" type property. To me this would probably be the most important. It's makes the chips feel professional to me. It feels great when stacking them and moving them around. I haven't handled the CPS chips but the cross hatching looks pretty severe (visually). I cant even see the Paulson cross hatching. Surely there is a middle ground here?

Paulsons aren't crosshatched. It's the clay. It's a completely different substance than China Clay which have virtually no actual clay in them. Paulsons aren't pure clay either (that would be too brittle), but they are far less plastic. Again, I cannot give exact percentages, because Paulson doesn't want everyone to know.

 

[Psypher1000]

Paulsons aren't crosshatched.

Eh? I mean, they certainly have a texture to them. I'm still relatively newish as chippers go, but I always thought that texture was commonly referred to as cross-hatching. If not cross-hatching, what is that texture called? Just "texture"?

 

[BGinGA]

Crosshatching (or 'texture') shows up in chips for one and only one reason -- because the surface of the mold used to produce the chip has been machined with a reversed finish (as opposed to a completely smooth surface finish). The most accurate term would probably be surface 'finish', since the specific characteristics can (and does) vary from mold to mold.

Some molds have a smooth-finished recessed center area but are textured elsewhere. Some are completely smooth, while others are machined totally with a textured finish (which may be crosshatched, but can be other machined patterns as well).

Most people probably consider 'textured' and 'crosshatched' molds/chips to be the same thing, but in reality they can be quite different, and is dependant upon the tools used and subsequent created pattern.

DrJohn has/had some incredible close-up photo shots on CT of a wide variety of poker chips showing the mold details and surface characteristics in vivid detail. Worth looking for if you've never seen them.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Eh? I mean, they certainly have a texture to them. I'm still relatively newish as chippers go, but I always thought that texture was commonly referred to as cross-hatching. If not cross-hatching, what is that texture called? Just "texture"?

Crosshatching is an art technique used to add texture, shadows, shading, and depth. The CPS chips have crosshatching. It is visible. If it's not noticeable, then by definition it's not crosshatching.

Paulsons have a very fine texture to them - as BG points out, it is in the mold and pressed into the chip. This fine texture gets lost through normal casino usage, but Paulsons don't lose their brick-stacking quality when that texture is worn off. Sure, chip-goo accounts for some of it, but even cleaned they will stack well, because the material the chip is made out of is not slick.

Below is a closeup through a jeweler's loop. The texture is evident, but it is far from being crosshatched. This is a HS Cincinnati. Most people would think the Pink portion of the faux-shaped inlay is solid pink. Under the loop, the pink dots are more noticeable than the chip's texture.

 

[mummel]

Crosshatching is an art technique used to add texture, shadows, shading, and depth. The CPS chips have crosshatching. It is visible. If it's not noticeable, then by definition it's not crosshatching.

Paulsons have a very fine texture to them - as BG points out, it is in the mold and pressed into the chip. This fine texture gets lost through normal casino usage, but Paulsons don't lose their brick-stacking quality when that texture is worn off. Sure, chip-goo accounts for some of it, but even cleaned they will stack well, because the material the chip is made out of is not slick.

Below is a closeup through a jeweler's loop. The texture is evident, but it is far from being crosshatched. This is a HS Cincinnati. Most people would think the Pink portion of the faux-shaped inlay is solid pink. Under the loop, the pink dots are more noticeable than the chip's texture.

View attachment 72650

That texture looks crosshatched to me (intentionally part of the mold), but you make a good point. Once it's worn down, the chips still retain their stickiness, so it's probably the material that gives them that property.

Can you take the same pic with a very worn down chip? I would be curious to see how it looks.

 

[Poker Zombie]

That texture looks crosshatched to me (intentionally part of the mold), but you make a good point. Once it's worn down, the chips still retain their stickiness, so it's probably the material that gives them that property.

Can you take the same pic with a very worn down chip? I would be curious to see how it looks.

I would, but as it turns out - I don't keep any worn chips. :

 

[joepro]

I was watching the WSOP last night and saw they were using 43mm chips. Now that they are on TV and because of all the Horseshoe chips I might come out with a China Clay 43mm set.

This project is at least one year down the road but I would like some feedback. I am sure most of you guys have been shuffling your stacks of Horseshoe chips. I have and that size does feel nice.

Could be an all new mold. Maybe even a retro Horseshoe mold?

@Apache , Any update on this?

 

[mummel]

@Apache , Any update on this?

Just have to wait a year . But I'm with you. I'm eagerly awaiting the mock ups.

 

[mummel]

Here are a few more examples
View attachment 64324 View attachment 64325 View attachment 64326 View attachment 64327 View attachment 64328 View attachment 64329 View attachment 64330

Really like this mold.

 

[mummel]

My secret wish list:

1) A set that includes nickels
2) A set that includes blanks and labels so that we can pick the chip colors we like best (mission critical!)
3) Chips that show a lot of surface area with smaller labels, like the THC (Pharoahs/Dunes are too slim, Milanos/Majestics look good, Rounders really pop in my display cabinets)
4) A horseshoe mold similar to the binions one with the two border lines. Actually, the binions mold is pretty damn perfect.
5) A simple label, perhaps a black label with gold horseshoe and denom? I have zero eye for design though. But the denom should be big and easily visible!
6) Similar texture to the latest dunes CCs, they feel great
7) Matching dealer buttons and bounty chips
8) I've never used oversized chips in a game so I cant comment on that, but I do really like the 46mm OWPS bounty chips I have. My guess is if higher tourney denoms were 46mm+ then that could be pretty cool. I think 43mm would be too small, not much of a diffs vs 39mm. I'm not sure if all chips were 46mm if that would work? Maybe 43mm in that case? I dont know.
9) A set with lots of pretty colors and edge spot PrOn. Not a fan of progression though because all my games use the 5c/25c/$1 chips! #lowdenomedgespotsmatter
10) Improved CC quality control, hopefully the manufacturer is getting better with each run.

I'm eagerly awaiting to see how this unfolds. What's on your wish list?

 

[TheOctagon]

My thoughts, currently. Subject to change. I'm a designer by trade, so my initial sketches always change over time. This is no different.

• Sizes: at least a few options at 39mm. I like what larger diameter chips offer in terms of contrast with the standard size, but a whole set of 43+ seems like it loses a little of its luster when all you have are the larger
• Denoms: going along with the first point; a set with 10-14 denominations seems adequate - with the micros at 39mm exclusively and the uber high denoms at 43 (I guess like the Boardwalk set breakdown, more or less, with maybe more 43mm-only instead)
• Non-denoms: I find the idea of a two-color limit set really appealing on this mold. Just old school visuals to go with some old school poker. So, at least one non-denom in each diameter, preferably complementary or adequately contrasting so you could have the workhorse chips in 39mm and the bank chips in 43mm or vice versa. I don't know, maybe just a two-color 43mm limit set is baller as is. We'll see.
• Colors: here's where I'm torn. If you've seen me talk about chips, I really enjoy stacks of high saturation, day-glo madness. But, in this case, I think trending more toward a mid-century color scheme seems appropriate.
• Mold: definitely the alternating horseshoe mold from the old Binion's chips or as close as we can get without breaking any IP laws.
• Inlay/label: Time-period appropriate; simple, but bold and there's probably room for tasteful embellishment. I don't know if monochrome is the right approach, but minimal color.
• Other potential concepts: Can we get hot stamped china clays mass produced? If they're turning out hot stamped dice chips, I have to believe the technology exists to hit some CCs with them. If that's the case, then I'd even wonder if you scrap the label entirely and try for a full hot stamped set.

 

[mummel]

(I guess like the Boardwalk set breakdown, more or less, with maybe more 43mm-only instead)

I think we'll get a lot of good feedback from this group buy regarding the larger chips.

When do these ship?

 

[TheOctagon]

They're already in people's hands! There's another buy happening later this year. @Hobbyphilic posted a bit of a review video last month. Check that out.

 

[TheOctagon]

This stuff is great. Those yellow $5s? Awesome.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Other potential concepts: Can we get hot stamped china clays mass produced? If they're turning out hot stamped dice chips, I have to believe the technology exists to hit some CCs with them. If that's the case, then I'd even wonder if you scrap the label entirely and try for a full hot stamped set.

Unless I'm mistaken, CC are injection molded from a center injection point The resulting dimple is covered by the label. A hot stamped China Clay would leave that injection dimple ugly, rough, and visible. I can try to confirm when I get home tomorrow, as I'm sure I still have unlabeled blanks.

 

[Psypher1000]

Unless I'm mistaken, CC are injection molded from a center injection point The resulting dimple is covered by the label. A hot stamped China Clay would leave that injection dimple ugly, rough, and visible. I can try to confirm when I get home tomorrow, as I'm sure I still have unlabeled blanks.

I can confirm right now - this is correct.

 

[justsomedude]

I can confirm right now - this is correct.

How do they do the edge spots?