New Tina Hybrid 43mm Web Mold Interest (2 Viewers)

[Nanook]

.....She also communicated that if we get Daniel's permission that we could commission the s-crown 43mm option. I won't pursue this because I'm pushing for the web mold with the same textured chip as the s-crown, and because I believe Daniel may be from another poker chip forum... I'll let someone else take the lead on that.

Yea, he is no longer a member here.

He mentioned that since there never was anything other than a 39mm scrown he wouldn't want a 43mm one. I tend to agree

 

[upNdown]

Do you have a sample set or a shuffle stack of these?

no. They could be amazing ceramics. I’ve owned Sunfly hybrids and they were great. And if you want to make a bang for the buck comparison, I wouldn’t argue with you. But comparing ceramic to compressed clay straight up doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

 

[Nanook]

no. They could be amazing ceramics. I’ve owned Sunfly hybrids and they were great. And if you want to make a bang for the buck comparison, I wouldn’t argue with you. But comparing ceramic to compressed clay straight up doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

Sunfly hybrids are like a $1 ea, right? & not easily customizable if I recall right.

I couldn't get onboard at that price point so I can't even compare these to SunFly's hybrids, but both @justincarothers ngm & the scrown hybrids are excellent. You are right, they are not CPC true compression mold chips, but they are like 1/6 or 1/8 the price. Clearly anyone can argue how good or not they are, but @<50c ea these are slam dunk the best chips out there, period. Full Stop!

They shuffle great and stack like bricks. No comparison to any of the other China ceramics

 

[MrRossKeys]

no. They could be amazing ceramics. I’ve owned Sunfly hybrids and they were great. And if you want to make a bang for the buck comparison, I wouldn’t argue with you. But comparing ceramic to compressed clay straight up doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

I've got 3 custom CPC sets, and I understand the sentiment from @TX_Golf_N_Poker. I'm holding an s-crown ceramic sample stack in my hand right now and I had a fleeting thought that Tina had figured out how to make a compressed clay chip. Granted it's definitely not.... but it feels much closer that I was... pleasantly surprised.

 

[allforcharity]

Come on.

This is a surprise to you?

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

nope. You are right that there are some very small subtle differences

I read this:


Thicker or thinner or bigger or smaller. Heavier or lighter by <1% isn't a CLEAR advantage or disadvantage in my mind.

That's fine. I wasn't speaking for you. I was speaking for myself.

And you are under representing the differences. 55g is 3.7% greater than 53g in weight. In spite of the heavier chip having a larger inner recess area.

I noticed the small differences the first time I handled both chips together. It was only after my initial perception that I confirmed my suspicions with comparison and measurements. And to be totally clear, I'm not trying in any way to talk anyone out of the Greek Key chips. They are very cool chips and I am thrilled that Justin had that mold made and that they are available for purchase to PCF members. What my intent is - is to point these small differences out to guide future mold development to continue to strive for more improvements, or at the very least, to not fall backwards with the next new mold. In my opinion, the S-crown chips are so much better than anything Tina has produced before that I'm hoping we continue with that level of improvement with another mold that I personally like better than S-crown.

 

[ngmcs8203]

That's fine. I wasn't speaking for you. I was speaking for myself.

And you are under representing the differences. 55g is 3.7% greater than 53g in weight. In spite of the heavier chip having a larger inner recess area.

I noticed the small differences the first time I handled both chips together. It was only after my initial perception that I confirmed my suspicions with comparison and measurements. And to be totally clear, I'm not trying in any way to talk anyone out of the Greek Key chips. They are very cool chips and I am thrilled that Justin had that mold made and that they are available for purchase to PCF members. What my intent is - is to point these small differences out to guide future mold development to continue to strive for more improvements, or at the very least, to not fall backwards with the next new mold. In my opinion, the S-crown chips are so much better than anything Tina has produced before that I'm hoping we continue with that level of improvement with another mold that I personally like better than S-crown.

For me the inability for color to be properly printed inside the impressions in the mold on the scrown are a bigger deal than the weight differences.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

I've got 3 custom CPC sets, and I understand the sentiment from @TX_Golf_N_Poker. I'm holding an s-crown ceramic sample stack in my hand right now and I had a fleeting thought that Tina had figured out how to make a compressed clay chip. Granted it's definitely not.... but it feels much closer that I was... pleasantly surprised.

Agreed. I don't have a custom CPC set yet, but I have several Paulson sets, and several other vintage compressed clay sets. And yes, I love my clay chips. But I have a very large set in the planning stages right now. I want a set that covers a large range of cash stakes for at least two tables. A set that will likely see a lot of use and where most of the players are not chippers. If I were to move forward with this set as a custom CPC set, I would have to carefully limit the numbers of chips I purchase, and it would still cost at least $5-6K. If I can convince myself that a set of Tina hybrids will be satisfactory substitute, then I can bump up the numbers of chips so I'll never have to worry that I don't have enough, and save several thousand dollars to boot. I can still work in my beloved clay sets when I host smaller games, and I'll even have extra budget to expand a couple of them and complete a couple other project sets that are stowed away in the vault.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

For me the inability for color to be properly printed inside the impressions in the mold on the scrown are a bigger deal than the weight differences.

I'm not talking about the molds. I already stated that I loved the greek key mold on paper, and that I'm not a big fan of the S-crown. I'm referring only to the specific dimensions of the chips, the sharpness of the edges, and the intrinsic "feel" of the chips in my hand. I want the "qualities" of the S-crown chip on these new web mold chips. Not the dimensions and qualities of the, IMO, "inferior" greek mold chips.

 

[ngmcs8203]

I'm not talking about the molds. I already stated that I loved the greek key mold on paper, and that I'm not a big fan of the S-crown. I'm referring only to the specific dimensions of the chips, the sharpness of the edges, and the intrinsic "feel" of the chips in my hand. I want the "qualities" of the S-crown chip on these new web mold chips. Not the dimensions and qualities of the, IMO, "inferior" greek mold chips.

Which is fine, but for me the print quality is just as, if not more, important.

 

[MrRossKeys]

I think the difficulty of communication and consistency is the real bummer to this otherwise fantastic opportunity with Tina chips.

Pros:

• Price point is amazing. A full cash and tournament set of chips for less than $800 is incredible no matter who you order from.
• Options are growing. Just a year ago there was Cards mold, Diamond mold, and No mold. Now we have many more mold options with even more coming in 2024.
• Options for direct print and/or inlay stickers... pretty incredible for a ceramic chip
• Colors: A pro and a con... some colors from Tina really POP and are gorgeous
• Chip feel: IMO No mold and S-crown are lovely to handle, feel substantial, and reduced/minimal spinners

But, the Cons are really difficult to ignore, and really suck in terms of deciding to invest in these chips:

• Consistency may still be lacking. I outlined my experience ordering 2400 chips last year, and I had an awful time getting them to consistently print the inlay stickers.
• Colors: Some base colors really don't print well at all, and there isn't a master document they provide that sheds light on what colors to use
• Communication: This is the worst of all of it in my opinion. Every conversation boils down to however their words are translated to English, and how their simple words could mean multiple things when read on a computer screen. When she says "It's so fine" I'm not sure if she is saying she's "ok with it" or "the print is too small."

If I could have one answered poker related prayer, it would be that Tina hires an American ambassador that speaks their native language and handles all of PCF's inquiries. Companies do this all the time when they find a large subset of business in a foreign market. Imagine if we could influence their product line while getting straight answers about our questions, eliminating any guesswork. Tina would become the primary vendor for poker chips.

 

[Nanook]

I have no horse in the race. I am a big fan of both the new tina hybrid molds and think both are miles ahead of anything from china in the past including all no molds, cards molds. I said I would take some pics and I did. I am looking at both the ngm and the scrown molds and honestly I can't tell much of a difference between the sharpness of the edge or the size of the little dimples on the face of the chips. I took a bunch of close ups that I think are pretty good. Both sets of chips stack, shuffle and feel great. I can't explain the weight thing, but even that is not going be noticed once you have your chips. I'll agree, 10g is better than 9 and 9 is better than 8g, but few are going notice 9.1 vs 8.8g. Other differences are negligible in my opinion.
All pics River Rats scrown on the Left and BTP ngm on the right.

 

[Colquhoun]

The other difference is that the scrown is a 25.4mm (1 inch) label and the Greek is 24mm.
While the Greek label is slightly smaller, the chip offers more textured chip-to-chip contact on their faces.

 

[ekricket]

Tina has agreed to make this mold if I organize a group buy. Looks like this thing is going to happen. I've requested a sample first, so we'll see how long that takes....

(She also communicated that if we get Daniel's permission that we could commission the s-crown 43mm option. I won't pursue this because I'm pushing for the web mold with the same textured chip as the s-crown, and because I believe Daniel may be from another poker chip forum... I'll let someone else take the lead on that. )

Lol, china saying you need somebody’s permission to copy a mold that the ”owner” copied from someone else.
You can’t make this shit up

 

[SeanGecko]

It's like you never seen a mob movie before.

Lol, china saying you need somebody’s permission to copy a mold that the ”owner” copied from someone else.
You can’t make this shit up

 

[Nanook]

Lol, china saying you need somebody’s permission to copy a mold that the ”owner” copied from someone else.
You can’t make this shit up

not only that
- no-one has ever made a 43mm scrown mold
& not only that...
I am pretty sure that even though CPC owns the mold, no-one owns the design patent any more because it has expired. There are utility patents and design patents and design patents relate to how things look (mold shapes etc) and they only last 15yrs

I wouldn't want to have "Tina" make an exact copy of the THC mold and open an internet store selling near exact copy of Paris LV chips and expect to get away with it. That isn't what I am saying, but at the same time who exactly is getting financially harmed by someone making new chips based on a mold that was made 70 yrs ago and has not been commercially viable for dozens of years.

As for the copyright thing.
I spent a decent amount of time reading about it, but not so much that I am 100% certain. I am not a patent attorney or even a lawyer, but by what I read I just do not think anyone would even have a case in this type of thing

 

[MrRossKeys]

As a general sentiment, I am happy Tina is playing by "some set of rules," even if those rules don't actually make sense....

It wasn't that long ago many were concerned that their artwork and completed chips would be knocked off and sold through Tina without their permission (and I think it was happening pretty regularly), but now at least there seems to be a finders-keepers rule in effect that they will enforce. Sure they aren't protecting the original licensed owner(s)... just the first person to approach them with the design and cash.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

I have no horse in the race. I am a big fan of both the new tina hybrid molds and think both are miles ahead of anything from china in the past including all no molds, cards molds. I said I would take some pics and I did. I am looking at both the ngm and the scrown molds and honestly I can't tell much of a difference between the sharpness of the edge or the size of the little dimples on the face of the chips. I took a bunch of close ups that I think are pretty good. Both sets of chips stack, shuffle and feel great. I can't explain the weight thing, but even that is not going be noticed once you have your chips. I'll agree, 10g is better than 9 and 9 is better than 8g, but few are going notice 9.1 vs 8.8g. Other differences are negligible in my opinion.
All pics River Rats scrown on the Left and BTP ngm on the right.

Thanks Alan. Appreciate you posting these. I can't explain why the scrowns feel sharper to me, so maybe it's just a bias on my part. It doesn't really matter, since we are talking a brand new mold here anyway. My only real point in all my comments is for @MrRossKeys to hopefully impress upon Tina that if it is at all possible to make a new mold have sharper edges, that I think most of us would appreciate that. Or not???

And also that the additional 1mm in barrel height (scrown hybrids over cards mold) is also appreciated and desired for this new mold. What I don't think any of us know is whether there is that degree of precision when creating a new mold, or if what we have gotten in previous molds is purely a random occurrence. i.e., some end up a tiny bit thinner, and others a tiny bit thicker.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

I think the difficulty of communication and consistency is the real bummer to this otherwise fantastic opportunity with Tina chips.

Pros:

• Price point is amazing. A full cash and tournament set of chips for less than $800 is incredible no matter who you order from.
• Options are growing. Just a year ago there was Cards mold, Diamond mold, and No mold. Now we have many more mold options with even more coming in 2024.
• Options for direct print and/or inlay stickers... pretty incredible for a ceramic chip
• Colors: A pro and a con... some colors from Tina really POP and are gorgeous
• Chip feel: IMO No mold and S-crown are lovely to handle, feel substantial, and reduced/minimal spinners

But, the Cons are really difficult to ignore, and really suck in terms of deciding to invest in these chips:

• Consistency may still be lacking. I outlined my experience ordering 2400 chips last year, and I had an awful time getting them to consistently print the inlay stickers.
• Colors: Some base colors really don't print well at all, and there isn't a master document they provide that sheds light on what colors to use
• Communication: This is the worst of all of it in my opinion. Every conversation boils down to however their words are translated to English, and how their simple words could mean multiple things when read on a computer screen. When she says "It's so fine" I'm not sure if she is saying she's "ok with it" or "the print is too small."

If I could have one answered poker related prayer, it would be that Tina hires an American ambassador that speaks their native language and handles all of PCF's inquiries. Companies do this all the time when they find a large subset of business in a foreign market. Imagine if we could influence their product line while getting straight answers about our questions, eliminating any guesswork. Tina would become the primary vendor for poker chips.

Regarding the communication issues, I think it's a bit optimistic to think Tina's company would hire a salesperson that is highly fluent in both languages primarily to deal with PCF. But you did give me an idea. I wonder if we have anyone here on PCF that is fluent enough in Tina's native language (Mandarin?) that they might be willing to step in and help with some of the more technical communication hurdles???

 

[MrRossKeys]

Regarding the communication issues, I think it's a bit optimistic to think Tina's company would hire a salesperson that is highly fluent in both languages primarily to deal with PCF. But you did give me an idea. I wonder if we have anyone here on PCF that is fluent enough in Tina's native language (Mandarin?) that they might be willing to step in and help with some of the more technical communication hurdles???

I had the exact same thought when I was typing my post. I was secretly hoping someone on PCF would step up and volunteer for this noble cause. Still crossing my fingers and toes…

 

[MrRossKeys]

But also, as optimistic as it is… it could be the difference between hundreds and thousands of orders for their company. It behoves them to consider the cost to benefit of the idea.

 

[MrRossKeys]

Thanks Alan.

I'm an Allen as well. @Nanook and I are now sworn to battle to see who gets to keep the name.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

I'm an Allen as well. @Nanook and I are now sworn to battle to see who gets to keep the name.

No. You're Ross...

 

[SeanGecko]

No. You're Ross...

Mr Ross Keys to be exact.

 

[Nanook]

@SeanGecko
I know you are watching this thread too, but this might be even more relevant to the web mold discussion that you started. I am going to post this over there too.

Thanks Alan. Appreciate you posting these. I can't explain why the scrowns feel sharper to me, so maybe it's just a bias on my part. It doesn't really matter, since we are talking a brand new mold here anyway. My only real point in all my comments is for @MrRossKeys to hopefully impress upon Tina that if it is at all possible to make a new mold have sharper edges, that I think most of us would appreciate that. Or not???

If they are the same sharpness as the scrown that is good. Sharper than that could be bad. You want the edge broken somewhat. I think that if they are super shap (maybe impossible, idk) think of a brand new Paulson or CPC chip that basically never breaks in. I am not saying that these ceramic chips will never wear, but they will certainly take a looooooooong time to change at all how they feel. Ceramic chips do not wear well in a Casino environment as they wear through the printing and look bad, but in a home game environment this will basically never happen...well it could happen but LOTS of hosting.

And also that the additional 1mm in barrel height (scrown hybrids over cards mold) is also appreciated and desired for this new mold. What I don't think any of us know is whether there is that degree of precision when creating a new mold, or if what we have gotten in previous molds is purely a random occurrence. i.e., some end up a tiny bit thinner, and others a tiny bit thicker.

yea, not sure about this either. 1mm barrel height spread over 20 chips isn't much.

I have a calipers (in inches because I actually used it at work) and I just spent some time measuring various chips & my conclusion is that the extra weight that Tina's scrown chips have suprisingly (lol) comes from the fact that they are just a little bigger. Both bigger dia and thicker. Both dimensions are very small and when all 4 of these chips are set next to one another on a flat & hard table they all seem to be exactly the same. You can not feel a difference in height sliding a finger or nail across from one chip to the next and you certainly can not see the difference in size.

Just for reference cheap copy paper that we all have in our printer is .004" thick so the extra thickness of the Tina scrown vs the Tina ngm is thicker by 1/2 the thickness of a piece of paper & the Tina scrown is roughly bigger dia by roughly the thickness of a piece of paper. Was this all done intentionally or did it just happen. Ikd, but it do know that the difference isn't much....

----------------------------------------Thickness--------------Diameter
THC Brand New ---------------------.128"-------------------1.540"
TRK Old school Brand New ----------.128"-------------------1.525"
Tina ngm------------------------------.128"-------------------1.530"
Tina scrown----------------------------.130"------------------1.535"

 

[MrRossKeys]

This is what I got from Tina today. Looks just like what Sean got from her as well so I'm happy.

Excited to see some mockups!

 

[MrRossKeys]

I'll get the party started.

Just random colors and inlay I made to show some potential ideas:

 

[SeanGecko]

I'll get the party started.

Just random colors and inlay I made to show some potential ideas:
View attachment 1235399

We are going to need more. Now do one of mine!

 

[MrRossKeys]

We are going to need more. Now do one of mine!

Which one you want?

 

[SeanGecko]

Which one you want?

Please!