That’s not very fair to Elsa. It’s not her fault she looks like a 59 year old white male.
New Tina Mold Poll (3 Viewers)
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chipinla
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Looking on Alibaba one day I came across USA forever stamps at pennies vs real stamps and even said in the ad for sending mail. I am not surprised but that's definitely not gonna help the post office deficit. I can't believe there isn't more counterfeit measures being taken since real stamps are expensive as he'll and going up in price yet again.
Not really a question if these chips will be passed as real but when and by who?
TheDuke
Full House
This is pretty meh. It's pretty crazy that these businesses are willing to copy anything. But there was a moral line that was already crossed long long ago.
People are all aghast but let's be real. People who have the most vocal responses to these chips were never buying Chinese chips to begin with. Most folks who have commented probably have a strong dislike for RHC anyhow - so a facsimile of a hated mold on a cheap medium is meaningless.
Oh, but won't you think of thechildren new chippers? Honestly, if you look around this hobby, no one really cares about strangers and unknown chippers (see @bannedJ3 and his FMV crusade).
Ultimately, this copycat design is being driven by PCF users. No one outside of this forum gives a flying fuck about the mold on a poker chip. Tina is fulfilling the demand driven by PCFers. We can refer to them as the silent majority of PCF.
People are all aghast but let's be real. People who have the most vocal responses to these chips were never buying Chinese chips to begin with. Most folks who have commented probably have a strong dislike for RHC anyhow - so a facsimile of a hated mold on a cheap medium is meaningless.
Oh, but won't you think of the
Ultimately, this copycat design is being driven by PCF users. No one outside of this forum gives a flying fuck about the mold on a poker chip. Tina is fulfilling the demand driven by PCFers. We can refer to them as the silent majority of PCF.
ThinkingFold
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Eh, now that the WSOP has moved out of the Rio, I'm going on wait on Jim's sale with the real things.
chipinla
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Wait, these aren’t the real things?Eh, now that the WSOP has moved out of the Rio, I'm going on wait on Jim's sale with the real things.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The bigger concern is when a few of these wind up on a casino floor in Vegas, either on purpose or by accident/ignorance. Once that happens, the casinos will take notice and look to find out where these counterfeits are coming from. Won't be hard to trace them back to this site and the individuals who contracted to have them produced. Then this site is fucked as a place where you can buy counterfeit live casino chips. And I don't what to hear the argument that it's easy to tell they are fake. Sure we can because we know what to look for. But the average person does not and will easily get duped. I can't tell the difference a real and fake gucci bag, but my wife can.
Just think how long after these chips are produced will some scammer be on the vegas strip with a story that he's heading out to the airport right now and forgot to cash a few chips and would someone give him $40 cash for these two 25 chips. Now that fool tries to cash them at the cage and DOH.
Just think how long after these chips are produced will some scammer be on the vegas strip with a story that he's heading out to the airport right now and forgot to cash a few chips and would someone give him $40 cash for these two 25 chips. Now that fool tries to cash them at the cage and DOH.
I wasn't here for the BW issues with the associated Sunfly tributes, but I heard about it. This is pretty much what happened to a "T". Granted, Sunfly is a legitimate casino supply company that does have legal interests to protect their business and livelihood. Tina won't really give a damn. But yeah, eyes from the sky with a microscope on this place isn't going to be good for anyone. I don't know about you guys, but if Bargata (not the real casino name, figure it out) sent cease and desist letters about Sunfly tributes, imagine what would happen if a major conglomerate like MGM or Caesars got wind of counterfeits being made and sold.
By all means indulge should you feel compelled, but do so at your own peril.
TheDuke
Full House
Situations you've described are unfortunate. There are shitty people doing shitty things.
But these types of scams are going on right now. And they will happen with or without these chips. Easy enough for people to relabel actual paulsons and attempt these scams. And if I'm not mistaken, one of the NAGB boat designs was a
Walk down any tourist trap area like the strip, Bourbon street in NOLA, streets leading up to the Disneyland entrance, etc. you'll find all manner of grifters.
People who are scammers will already be scamming. These chips aren't going to create a cottage industry of new scammers.
ThinkingFold
Flush
Once had a guy on Bourbon street ask me for money because he said he needed to buy a plane ticket to Houston because his girlfriend was in labor and he couldn't use his credit card or his wife would find out.
I like to think he wasn't a grifter and was telling me the truth.
I don't disagree with this, but to @arch3r 's point, all it takes is for a few counterfeit $500 or $1000 chips to hit the gaming floor before a tsunami of a shit storm hits this place and anyone that bought the chips, whether for nefarious or personal home use or not. It's happened before with the BW hybrids. People still don't want to admit they own them. If they go up for sale here, abbreviations or other names are always used. There's a reason for that.
Well, I guess I won't be buying RHC anymore. Wait, I almost never did!
Utilizing any sort of counterfeit chip, debt instrument, or another gambling device is referred to as using counterfeit currency. In Nevada, using these things is a category B felony. Additionally, Nevada classifies the production or possession of fake casino chips as “using” them.
Convictions for manufacturing or possessing counterfeit cheating devices carry penalties of up to six years in prison and a fine of up to $10,000 on each count.
enjoy.
Convictions for manufacturing or possessing counterfeit cheating devices carry penalties of up to six years in prison and a fine of up to $10,000 on each count.
enjoy.
TheDuke
Full House
When I was there, there was a duo bum rushing all of us tourists and getting down on their knees trying to shine our shoes for 5 seconds. Once done they would jump up and demand payment of $20. They did this to my friend who was wearing sneakers. He was drunk and surly and almost shoved that shine box up their asses.Once had a guy on Bourbon street ask me for money because he said he needed to buy a plane ticket to Houston because his girlfriend was in labor and he couldn't use his credit card or his wife would find out.
I like to think he wasn't a grifter and was telling me the truth.
chipinla
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NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
i would say so. You’ve got a label that’s identical to a live casino chip’s inlay stuck to a similar chip.
chipinla
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See that’s the challenge. It’s a Gear label but it’s not “identical”. It has BLVD on it while the real one doesn’t.
But to the unsuspecting person, they wouldn’t know. So is there a relabeling issue that needs to be addressed as well as the Tina chips?
chipinla
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A very very very typical response when a legit point/conversation is being made or had when someone doesn’t have a good rebuttal.Who loves whataboutism?
Well we know Tina doesn’t give a shit! She’s in China. You can’t sue Tina and you can’t arrest Tina! So do what you want at your own risk - Tina doesn’t care!
It’s easy for me because I don’t like copies and relabels, so it’s nothing I’d ever have to worry about. But yeah, I think the closer these copies get to the real thing, the more dangerous they are. And as unlikely as it is to ever happen, I’d never want to find myself in a room saying “But Agent, mine say BLVD!!!!’”
chipinla
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^^ this
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you actually considered your Declaration of Independence analogy a legit one. Sarcasm is sometimes difficult to translate online, especially from someone who's rarely short of it.
To be clear, I believe this Tina RHC mold fiasco is generally a bad and unethical development in the poker chip world. At minimum, it definitely feels like we're poking the proverbial bear -- and I don't think that's wise. No need to beat around the bush or form some wild analogies to justify my belief. That's just where I stand. I'm ok being in the minority.
Yes, scammers gonna scam and flippers gonna flip and NAGBs gonna NAGB and relabelers gonna relabel. All of these topics require nuanced discussions that don't translate well to each other -- hence the term whataboutism, because literally none of those issues change the outcome of this topic. It seems the only purpose in perpetually muddying this discussion with them is to justify something you already know is wrong.
I see PCF as a place where we can admire and discuss and b/s/t poker chips. Cheap, expensive, plastic, clay, playable, collectible, it doesn't matter. But when the largest, most prominent forum (or the "silent majority") decides to support taking an absolute shit directly into the mouth of one of the most popular chip producers in the world -- one whose product we generally admire around here -- I at least give pause.
As for relabeling in particular, I am relatively indifferent because I see it as a large sliding scale. In the overwhelming number of cases, I believe it's generally a positive development in the poker chip world. It gives hobbyists a way to personalize chips, and has proven itself over time to be an extremely niche foray made in relatively small quantities (given the labor and expense). They are for the most part printed & used in a tasteful manner, and are beneficial to "set builders" when no other legitimate alternative exists.
Relabeling is also repurposing something that has already been produced and rightfully purchased -- like painting a swoosh on generic shoes you already own versus mass producing & profiting off of replica Nikes -- two wildly different discussions regarding intent, scale, and more.
For me, if a label could be misinterpreted in-person or photos as LIVE -- let's call it a sniff test -- I believe it has gone too far. Finding consensus for where that line is drawn is a worthy discussion. How would Paulson react to you relabeling chips they sold? How about casinos? How about this forum? How many have fallen victim to relabeled chips thinking they were something else?
All to say, "Nuance."
In contrast, there's not much nuance to producing & profiting off of RHC replica chips. I mean we all know it's wrong. If you want to buy them in spite of that, then knock yourself out. I'm not on some crusade here, and as I've shared before, I wouldn't walk out of your game if you felted them. I do care enough to weigh in, though, which is what a forum is all about (I think?).
Sure there's a long list of things broken in our hobby, and maybe this isn't the worst of it, but complaining about other broken things is terrible justification for adding one more to the list.
I don’t believe the silent majority of PCF supports this bullshit ceramic garbage knockoff hat and cane mold.
It's pretty likely that Tina is clueless as to why many of us are unhappy with this hat and cane mold. So you're quitting her over this, but you didn't have any problem with anything else they do in China? Doing business with Tina has always meant holding your nose a little. In my opinion, printing our designer's art for anyone who asks without permission or compensation is FAR worse than this.
chipinla
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I don’t support or not support the top hat and cane Tina mold. I don’t really care. I won’t be getting any, not my thing. I just don’t think it’s any worse than relabeling something. You’re either relabeling or buying a Tina chip to fill XYZ void. That could be to obtain a version of something that isn’t available, you can’t afford, etc. I understand all of the reasons why people are upset about the mold. I just don’t agree with picking and choosing on what to be upset about when two things can be very similar. (Tina mold/relabeling).I'm sorry, I didn't realize you actually considered your Declaration of Independence analogy a legit one. Sarcasm is sometimes difficult to translate online, especially from someone who's rarely short of it.
To be clear, I believe this Tina RHC mold fiasco is generally a bad and unethical development in the poker chip world. At minimum, it definitely feels like we're poking the proverbial bear -- and I don't think that's wise. No need to beat around the bush or form some wild analogies to justify my belief. That's just where I stand. I'm ok being in the minority.
Yes, scammers gonna scam and flippers gonna flip and NAGBs gonna NAGB and relabelers gonna relabel. All of these topics require nuanced discussions that don't translate well to each other -- hence the term whataboutism, because literally none of those issues change the outcome of this topic. It seems the only purpose in perpetually muddying this discussion with them is to justify something you already know is wrong.
I see PCF as a place where we can admire and discuss and b/s/t poker chips. Cheap, expensive, plastic, clay, playable, collectible, it doesn't matter. But when the largest, most prominent forum (or the "silent majority") decides to support taking an absolute shit directly into the mouth of one of the most popular chip producers in the world -- one whose product we generally admire around here -- I at least give pause.
As for relabeling in particular, I am relatively indifferent because I see it as a large sliding scale. In the overwhelming number of cases, I believe it's generally a positive development in the poker chip world. It gives hobbyists a way to personalize chips, and has proven itself over time to be an extremely niche foray made in relatively small quantities (given the labor and expense). They are for the most part printed & used in a tasteful manner, and are beneficial to "set builders" when no other legitimate alternative exists.
Relabeling is also repurposing something that has already been produced and rightfully purchased -- like painting a swoosh on generic shoes you already own versus mass producing & profiting off of replica Nikes -- two wildly different discussions regarding intent, scale, and more.
For me, if a label could be misinterpreted in-person or photos as LIVE -- let's call it a sniff test -- I believe it has gone too far. Finding consensus for where that line is drawn is a worthy discussion. How would Paulson react to you relabeling chips they sold? How about casinos? How about this forum? How many have fallen victim to relabeled chips thinking they were something else?
All to say, "Nuance."
In contrast, there's not much nuance to producing & profiting off of RHC replica chips. I mean we all know it's wrong. If you want to buy them in spite of that, then knock yourself out. I'm not on some crusade here, and as I've shared before, I wouldn't walk out of your game if you felted them. I do care enough to weigh in, though, which is what a forum is all about (I think?).
Sure there's a long list of things broken in our hobby, and maybe this isn't the worst of it, but complaining about other broken things is terrible justification for adding one more to the list.
That's quite the assumption. Jog on.
Many people are fully capable of having different opinions on different things at the same time.
As I just shared, I believe relabeling requires a nuanced discussion while Tina RHCs does not. I therefore have a stronger opinion about one than the other.
That may seem odd to you, but I guess someone not having an opinion at all while sharing their opinion seems odd to me.
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