Tourney Newb looking for breakdown advice (1 Viewer)

[SStorm]

New member to the forum here, though I have been reading for some time. I recently moved into a new house where I have a pretty kickass bar/poker area, getting a new table ordered from Gorilla Gaming soon and wanted custom chips to go with. I found the forum and fell down the rabbit hole. I have ordered several sample sets, and am leaning toward ordering a Sunfly Polyclay set. Would consider eventually doing a CPC clay set or even gathering a Paulson set to relabel, but for now I want something that I can have reasonably soon and trying to keep cost lower, knowing I may upgrade or expand later. What I need help deciding now though is the breakdown for the Sunfly's.

My typical home game has been 6-8 "players", once a month, with lots of socializing, playing what I would call mini-tournaments. $20 buy-in with a few re-buys, but chip denominations of: 20x1, 20x2, 5x4, 2x10. 47chips for 100 value. Starting blinds 1/2, so 50BB. Started this a long time ago, and now know it's a little silly, but we like getting in 2 quick mini-tournaments each night and so this works fine for us. But I want to get it to something a little more common with the new chips. However, I also may start trying to get a cash game going at times, either with this same group or with guys from the new neighborhood, but would suspect that 0.25/0.50 up to maybe 1/2 with buy-ins between $50-200.

I have read all the advice of having separate cash/tournament sets, and eventually that may happen, but for now especially given the game structure that we're used to I was thinking of getting a set that will bridge both cash/tournament (mini-tourney). My thoughts were:
0.25 x120
1 x240
5 x300
25 x180
100 x120
500 x60

That way I could still start blinds at 1,2 but give out 10x1, 13x5, 5x25 for the mini-tourney format, but on another night would have chips to do a decent cash game or a more typical tournament format if I chose. Thoughts? Want something versatile (but still budget friendly) for now until I know better what I may want/play and could invest in 1-2 nicer sets down the road.

 

[Kid_Eastwood]

First of all, 50BB is short as starting stack for a tournament.

I'd advise go start with 100BB.

For 8 players, 300 chips is enough.

The following 300 chip set covers even 9 players assuming you buy chips available by rolls of 25:
25 x 75
100 x 75
500 x 50
1000 x 75
5000 x 25

Then with 500-600 chips you shall have enough for your cash set 6-8 players depending on your stakes.

Ex. of cash set for 8 players NL10, NL20 or NL50 that can even cover 10 players :
160 x 0.10
80 x 0.50
160 x 1
160 x 5
40 x 20 (or 25)

 

[BGinGA]

If you insist on using the same set for both cash games and tournaments (a really bad idea), then at least make the tournaments actual cash value.

So a $20 tourney buy-in gets $20 in chips -- this will negate the potential problems created when using a dual-purpose set.

To keep the starting stacks close to 50BB (a very short-stacked turbo-style event), then you'll want to use a T.25-base structure with .25/.50 opening blinds -- along with a new $25 buy-in ($20 is just 40BB). Starting stacks would be 12/12/2 (or 8/8/3). Color-up the 25c and $1 chips with $5s once they are no longer needed.

A single-table 10-player tourney set would require:
120 x 25c
120 x $1
49 x $5 (includes 29x for color-ups)
----------
289 chips, plus some extra $5 chips for re-buys.

For a single-table 10-player cash set supporting both .25/.50 and 1/2 stakes, you'll need the following:

200 x 25c
200 x $1
300 x $5
100 x $25 (or a 3:1 or 4:1 mix of $25s and $100s)
---------
800 chips

Note that those cash set parameters will handle the previously established tournament set requirements shown above, and would also cover larger tourney stacks/buy-ins if later desired.

If considering a custom polyclay ceramic set, take a look at some of the recent cards mold group buys. If you can deal with a longer wait to get the chips (typically 3-4 months), the savings can be significant (around 30c-35c per chip delivered).

 

[SStorm]

Eastwood and BGinGA - Thanks for the advice. I feel somewhat stuck as my current group of guys have been used to lower stakes mini-tourneys like I mentioned above, and I don't know if switching to a cash game or to more normal T100 tournament structure will go over better and don't want to over-invest in chips right now either. I hate to say it but I kind of wish I still had my slugs that I sold with my old table so that I could try a couple of options out with the group first.

Thinking maybe it would be better to make the cash set of polyclay ceramics like you outlined above to support 0.25/50 and 1/2 in traditional Vegas cash colors like I had been working on and make a separate T100 tournament set in different colors. I had just hoped to stay around 1000 total chips to start and was hoping I could find a way to get best of both worlds with one set. Thanks again, though.

 

[Mr Winberg]

First of all, 50BB is short as starting stack for a tournament

I don't necessarily agree. If a turbo starts too deep, then the blind increments need to be larger (or shorter levels), which means the mid and end game get more rushed. It's a question of preference, both have their pros and cons.

A deep turbo will give you a few levels of deep play and allows the noobs to limp without it damaging their stacks too much, but then all of a sudded the blinds are really high and not enough players have been eliminated.

A shallow turbo will still be rushed (cause it's a turbo!), but not as much as a deep, and will have more of a final table vibe where no one is ever super deep. Also, since players are eliminated earlier the survivors keep up a bit with the blinds.

When I hosted turbos, we started with 60 BBs as a warm up which got sliced in half as we got down to business:
3k stacks
Standard structure:
25/50
50/100
75/150
Etc...

Another thing I learned was that it's a good rule to force-chop the final two players, except for the last tournament of the night. That way you can start the next earlier and the other players won't have to wait as long.

0.25 x120
1 x240
5 x300
25 x180
100 x120
500 x60

That's 1020 chips. Using my structure above as an example, you could do the following to support 10 players tourney + cash sets:

T25 base tourney set using 12/12/3 stacks:
120 × T25
120 × T100
30 × T500
Another 6 T500 to handle color-ups of T25 (T100 is never colored up).

That's 276 chips. Add another 24 spares and you have an even 300

You will have 720 chips left in your budget for your cash set. I'm no expert on 0.25 base cash sets, but perhaps something like this?

120 x 25c
200 x $1
300 x $5
100 x $25

 

[Kid_Eastwood]

You're right @Mr Winberg . For a turbo it makes sense in order to still have progressive blinds level.

 

[Mr Winberg]

You're right @Mr Winberg

So I've filled my quota for 2021!

 

[Mr Winberg]

Thinking maybe it would be better to make the cash set of polyclay ceramics like you outlined above to support 0.25/50 and 1/2 in traditional Vegas cash colors like I had been working on and make a separate T100 tournament set in different colors. I had just hoped to stay around 1000 total chips to start and was hoping I could find a way to get best of both worlds with one set. Thanks again, though.

Hi, I missed this, my page wasn't refreshed. But I still think my suggestion works, i.e. 300 chips to cover turbos and 700 to cover cash.

I'll show a 100BB deep tournament with 10 players:
Starting stacks of 10/6/6/2 (T100/T500/T1000/T5k)
Starting blinds 100/200 (or 100/100 if you want 200 BBs deep)

100 × T100
60 × T500
100 × T1000 (60 for starting stacks, 40 for coloring up the T100 and T500)
20 T5000

That's 280 chips, + 20 for spares.
Note: If you allow addons/rebuys, that more higher denom are needed.

So you can easily fit a cash set and a STT set in a 1000 chip budget.

I hate to say it but I kind of wish I still had my slugs that I sold with my old table so that I could try a couple of options out with the group first.

This is a good idea. Just buy some used dice chips and experiment! That's what I would have done.

 

[BGinGA]

Eastwood and BGinGA - Thanks for the advice. I feel somewhat stuck as my current group of guys have been used to lower stakes mini-tourneys like I mentioned above, and I don't know if switching to a cash game or to more normal T100 tournament structure will go over better and don't want to over-invest in chips right now either. I hate to say it but I kind of wish I still had my slugs that I sold with my old table so that I could try a couple of options out with the group first.

Thinking maybe it would be better to make the cash set of polyclay ceramics like you outlined above to support 0.25/50 and 1/2 in traditional Vegas cash colors like I had been working on and make a separate T100 tournament set in different colors. I had just hoped to stay around 1000 total chips to start and was hoping I could find a way to get best of both worlds with one set. Thanks again, though.

Not sure of the nature of your concern. Above, I offered an 800-chip dual-purpose set as an option to cover both cash and tournament play with no risk. And even two separate conventional single-use sets can be constructed with just 1000 chips total (400 tourney and 600 cash).

Am I missing something?

 

[Kid_Eastwood]

For 8 players, 300 chips for the tourney and 500 for the cash would even work as I proposed...

 

[BlackBarrel]

Hey @SStorm, welcome to the forum.

You mentioned being on a 1000-chip budget, and I think I came up with two options for you.

Option 1: Separate cash and tournament sets - 1000 chips total

• Cash set
  • 200 x 25¢
  • 200 x $1
  • 100 x $5
    • Starting stack: 20 x 25¢, 20 x $1, 5 x $5 (= $50)
    • Blinds: 25¢/50¢ (100BB)
    • Enough for 7 players to reload once for $50
• Tournament set
  • 130 x T25
  • 130 x T100
  • 100 x T500
  • 100 x T1000
  • 40 x T5000
    • Starting stack: 8 x T25, 8 x T100, 6 x T500, 6 x T1000, 2 x T5000 (= T20,000)
    • Level 1 blinds: T25/T50 (400BB)
    • Enough for 8 players to rebuy once into the tournament

Option 2: Dual-purpose cash/tournament set - 640 chips total

• 200 x T25/.25¢
• 200 x T100/$1.00
• 100 x T500/$5.00
• 100 x T1000/$10.00
• 40 x T5000/$50.00
  • Similar starting stacks and blinds to the separate sets in Option 1
  • For a tournament starting at 200BB you could drop the 40 T5000 chips completely

What are your thoughts?

 

[Mr Winberg]

Tournament set

• 130 x T25
• 130 x T100
• 100 x T500
• 100 x T1000
• 40 x T5000
  • Starting stack: 8 x T25, 8 x T100, 6 x T500, 6 x T1000, 2 x T5000 (= T20,000)
  • Level 1 blinds: T25/T50 (400BB)
  • Enough for 8 players to rebuy once into the tournament

IMO all lower denoms should be on the table when the tournament starts, rebuys should be with higher denoms. Per definition, you already have enough lower denoms in the starting stacks. If you feel the need to add more when someone rebuys, then per definition you didn't have enough lower denoms, so you should have had more from the start.
Since rebuys don't add more players, the required no of lower denom chips doesn't increase.

 

[Mr Winberg]

In other words: I always calculate the amount of chips based on a freezout. Then I add more T5k or sometimes even T25k to support rebuys, re-entries, and/or addons.

 

[DMZack007]

Hey @SStorm, welcome to the forum.

You mentioned being on a 1000-chip budget, and I think I came up with two options for you.

Option 1: Separate cash and tournament sets - 1000 chips total

• Cash set
  • 200 x 25¢
  • 200 x $1
  • 100 x $5
    • Starting stack: 20 x 25¢, 20 x $1, 5 x $5 (= $50)
    • Blinds: 25¢/50¢ (100BB)
    • Enough for 7 players to reload once for $50
• Tournament set
  • 130 x T25
  • 130 x T100
  • 100 x T500
  • 100 x T1000
  • 40 x T5000
    • Starting stack: 8 x T25, 8 x T100, 6 x T500, 6 x T1000, 2 x T5000 (= T20,000)
    • Level 1 blinds: T25/T50 (400BB)
    • Enough for 8 players to rebuy once into the tournament

Option 2: Dual-purpose cash/tournament set - 640 chips total

• 200 x T25/.25¢
• 200 x T100/$1.00
• 100 x T500/$5.00
• 100 x T1000/$10.00
• 40 x T5000/$50.00
  • Similar starting stacks and blinds to the separate sets in Option 1
  • For a tournament starting at 200BB you could drop the 40 T5000 chips completely

What are your thoughts?

Perfect for what im looking to set up haha.