Newbie thread - looking for a solid set for weekend poker nights (1 Viewer)

[Coyote]

I recommend a single-rebuy (when busted), with an optional 1/2-stack (for half-price) add-on after the re-buy period ends.

And if you implement re-buy chips, players can redeem an unused re-buy chip for a free add-on (typically 15-20% of starting stack size), which gives some intrinsic and strategic value to the re-buy option, rather than making it merely a function of aggression and deep pockets.

What about a single rebuy (only if busted, also) with the instant offer, at the end of the rebuy period, of topping up to the starting stack size for the full price of a starting stack, letting players decide if this is meaningful for each of them? Or, should that instant offer be made only to players who have NOT used the rebuy option?

 

[BGinGA]

What about a single rebuy (only if busted, also) with the instant offer, at the end of the rebuy period, of topping up to the starting stack size for the full price of a starting stack, letting players decide if this is meaningful for each of them? Or, should that instant offer be made only to players who have NOT used the rebuy option?

I think that is unfair to players without deep pockets, and allows money to be used to negate good early play.

 

[Coyote]

I think that is unfair to players without deep pockets, and allows money to be used to negate good early play.

That's why I thought offering the top-up only to players who haven't already busted/rebought.
Needless to say that offer is irrelevant to players who, by the time of the break, have done well enough to have a stack equal to or larger than the starting one.

 

[pipdenny]

I recommend a single-rebuy (when busted), with an optional 1/2-stack (for half-price) add-on after the re-buy period ends.

And if you implement re-buy chips, players can redeem an unused re-buy chip for a free add-on (typically 15-20% of starting stack size), which gives some intrinsic and strategic value to the re-buy option, rather than making it merely a function of aggression and deep pockets.

By rebuy chip, do you mean a special token that people can buy at the start of the tourney? how much would it cost if it is redeemable for only 20% of the buy-in?
I am not familiar with this concept, and as always thank you so much for your help!

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

By rebuy chip, do you mean a special token that people can buy at the start of the tourney? how much would it cost if it is redeemable for only 20% of the buy-in?
I am not familiar with this concept, and as always thank you so much for your help!

I don't know for sure, but I suspect you give each player at the beginning of the tournament a rebuy chip for each rebuy they are allowed. Then they turn them in and pay the money to use them. Once they're out of tokens they can no longer rebuy back in.

 

[tabletalker7]

By rebuy chip, do you mean a special token that people can buy at the start of the tourney? how much would it cost if it is redeemable for only 20% of the buy-in?
I am not familiar with this concept, and as always thank you so much for your help!

Players buy the "rebuy" chip when they buy in normally at that start. They can use it to rebuy once. At the end of whatever round you determine to be the end of the rebuys, anyone who still has theirs gets a buy in worth as an add on. That way bad players can rebuy once, and good players get a little boost to their stack after the early rounds. It also prevents Mister DeepPockets from "playing the lotto" trying to get a huge stack early.

 

[pipdenny]

Players buy the "rebuy" chip when they buy in normally at that start. They can use it to rebuy once. At the end of whatever round you determine to be the end of the rebuys, anyone who still has theirs gets a buy in worth as an add on. That way bad players can rebuy once, and good players get a little boost to their stack after the early rounds. It also prevents Mister DeepPockets from "playing the lotto" trying to get a huge stack early.

Would you normally eliminate normal rebuys and addons if using the rebuy chip approach? Is it either/or?

 

[tabletalker7]

Would you normally eliminate normal rebuys and addons if using the rebuy chip approach? Is it either/or?

YES! People buy everything right from the start. If they need to rebuy, they have the chip to use. If they don't, they get the add on as a reward. If your players have so much cash burning a hole in their pocket that one rebuy chip doesn't cut it, open a cash table after the tournament for them to dump their wallet to you on

 

[BGinGA]

Would you normally eliminate normal rebuys and addons if using the rebuy chip approach? Is it either/or?

There are many ways to manage it.

Typical Re-buy chip usage is to issue one to each player, and it must be surrendered when purchasing a new stack. Optionally, you can assign an intrinsic value to it by awarding a free add-on to those players who do not use it during the re-buy period.

What @tabletalker7 refers to above is more commonly considered a Reload tournament. It differs from a Re-buy because only half of the paid starting stack is issued (along with a Reload chip) at the start. A busted player can redeem his Reload chip for the other half of his prepaid stack. Players who do not use their chip during the reload period get the second half of their stack automatically at the end of the reload period, optionally with extra chips (usually 20%-25%) added as a bonus for not using it.

Optional add-ons for extra cash can be used (or not) with either format, and generally run between 20% to 50% of the starting stack size when made available.

Usually only charity events run unlimited re-buys and full-stack add-ons, because the underlying goal is to encourage chip purchases which enhance the amount of money raised.

 

[pipdenny]

There are many ways to manage it.

Typical Re-buy chip usage is to issue one to each player, and it must be surrendered when purchasing a new stack. Optionally, you can assign an intrinsic value to it by awarding a free add-on to those players who do not use it during the re-buy period.

What @tabletalker7 refers to above is more commonly considered a Reload tournament. It differs from a Re-buy because only half of the paid starting stack is issued (along with a Reload chip) at the start. A busted player can redeem his Reload chip for the other half of his prepaid stack. Players who do not use their chip during the reload period get the second half of their stack automatically at the end of the reload period, optionally with extra chips (usually 20%-25%) added as a bonus for not using it.

Optional add-ons for extra cash can be used (or not) with either format, and generally run between 20% to 50% of the starting stack size when made available.

Usually only charity events run unlimited re-buys and full-stack add-ons, because the underlying goal is to encourage chip purchases which enhance the amount of money raised.

If i wanted to go with the former 'normal' method (not the reload tournament), would the players pay for the rebuy chip?
For example, buyins are $20. Do players have the option in the beginning of the tournament to purchase a rebuy chip for an additional $20?
Or is each player given one for free; if they bust out before the addon period, they choose to redeem the buyin chip for an additional $20 and those who still have the chip will get an addon for free? Will the busted players get to addon as well for another $20? are the buyin chips worth 100% of the starting stack?

Lets say addons are 50% of the starting stack, will it only cost $10?

Sorry for all the questions, I am trying to learn all I can about standard tournament methods to improve our games.

Thanks again for all your insight, it is profoundly appreciated!

 

[BGinGA]

See answers below in bold.

If i wanted to go with the former 'normal' method (not the reload tournament), would the players pay for the rebuy chip?
No.

For example, buyins are $20. Do players have the option in the beginning of the tournament to purchase a rebuy chip for an additional $20?
No, players are issued a full starting stack plus a re-Buy chip for their buy-in amount.

Or is each player given one for free; if they bust out before the addon period, they choose to redeem the buyin chip for an additional $20 and those who still have the chip will get an addon for free?
Correct on both accounts. The free add-on for unused Re-buy chip redemption is unrelated to any optional add-ons for additional cash.

Will the busted players get to addon as well for another $20?
Only if you are offering optional $20 add-ons to all players. Any optional add-ons for extra cash should be unrelated to re-buy or bust status.

are the buyin chips worth 100% of the starting stack?
Not sure what you're asking here. What do you mean by buyin chip?

Lets say addons are 50% of the starting stack, will it only cost $10?
Correct, if that is how you choose to do it.

Because of the diminished value of a starting stack at the end of the re-buy period (typically an hour, or 3-4 levels), some directors choose to offer 50% stack add-ons for 25% of the initial cost, or $5 in your case.

The difference is that the original stack size was worth 100BB, but because the blind amounts are much higher at time of add-on, that same starting stack size is typically worth only 20BB-30BB, and a half-stack is usually 10BB-20BB. Offering a discount does make sense, but either way is fine.

Offering a full-stack sized add-on is not advisable, because it dilutes the importance of the early blind levels and negates the gains achieved by players during the re-buy period. Better to just start off with double-sized stacks for 2x the buy-in amount with no add-on than to offer full-stack add-ons, imo.

 

[pipdenny]

See answers below in bold.

Thank you!

I wrote up a quick starting stack and rebuy/addon structure for when I host my first tournament, thanks to all of the valuable insight gained from this forum thus far. This is tentative and surely will be tweaked according to our play:

Buyin = $20

Starting Stack:

12x $25 - $300

12x $100 - $1200

5x $500 - $2500

6x $1000 = $6000

TOTAL = $10,000 (200 BB)


Rebuys and Add-ons

• 1x “rebuy” chip is included in the initial buy-in price.
• If a player busts out before the add-on period, he may turn in his rebuy chip for a full stack of starting chips at the buy-in price, $20
• If a player still has his rebuy chip at the end of the addon period, he is awarded $2000 chips for free (20% of starting stack)
• Any player, independent of rebuy chip status, may choose to add-on for ½ the buy-in price, receiving $5000 additional chips for $10

I plan to use the "pokersoup" blind structure calculator to establish the blinds and timing.

One issue I can forsee is that blinds will raise too quickly. Very often we are forced to add time to our blind clock because these are very social gatherings, and the tournament is sometimes not the main focus (i.e. lots of banter and chat, smoke breaks, snack breaks, etc..). Oftentimes if we stick to our strict 15/20 min blinds, the blinds will have raised at least once before the button has moved one rotation around the table!
What are some ways to tweak the structure accommodate a tourney like that? Would raising or lowering the starting stack help? Or perhaps just making the blind intervals longer will do the trick.

As I ask these questions, I am also actively searching the forums for others who asked similar questions in the past. I am still trying to wrap my head around how all these factors (starting stack, blind structure, chip denoms, etc) are related to each other when designing a tournament. Your patience is very much appreciated.
I apologize if these are repetitive matters.

 

[tabletalker7]

Thank you!

I wrote up a quick starting stack and rebuy/addon structure for when I host my first tournament, thanks to all of the valuable insight gained from this forum thus far. This is tentative and surely will be tweaked according to our play:

Buyin = $20

Starting Stack:

12x $25 - $300

12x $100 - $1200

5x $500 - $2500

6x $1000 = $6000

TOTAL = $10,000 (200 BB)


Rebuys and Add-ons

• 1x “rebuy” chip is included in the initial buy-in price.
• If a player busts out before the add-on period, he may turn in his rebuy chip for a full stack of starting chips at the buy-in price, $20
• If a player still has his rebuy chip at the end of the addon period, he is awarded $2000 chips for free (20% of starting stack)
• Any player, independent of rebuy chip status, may choose to add-on for ½ the buy-in price, receiving $5000 additional chips for $10

I plan to use the "pokersoup" blind structure calculator to establish the blinds and timing.

One issue I can forsee is that blinds will raise too quickly. Very often we are forced to add time to our blind clock because these are very social gatherings, and the tournament is sometimes not the main focus (i.e. lots of banter and chat, smoke breaks, snack breaks, etc..). Oftentimes if we stick to our strict 15/20 min blinds, the blinds will have raised at least once before the button has moved one rotation around the table!
What are some ways to tweak the structure accommodate a tourney like that? Would raising or lowering the starting stack help? Or perhaps just making the blind intervals longer will do the trick.

As I ask these questions, I am also actively searching the forums for others who asked similar questions in the past. I am still trying to wrap my head around how all these factors (starting stack, blind structure, chip denoms, etc) are related to each other when designing a tournament. Your patience is very much appreciated.
I apologize if these are repetitive matters.

Ok I learned this the fun way - pokersoup blind calculator SUCKS!

I do a 200BB Bounty tournament off of a T-5 base so it wasn't hard to modify my normal structure for your use. Don't worry about blinds ending before the button makes it all the way around. This structure without breaks will still last 3 hours for a 10 player STT on your starting stacks. Someone more knowledgeable than me might want to change it a little bit so you can color up the 25's a little sooner, but it is a good start. If you do your rebuy/addon fun at break 2 you should have no problems keeping this going past break 4.

 

[pipdenny]

Update:
I ordered some samples of ceramics (tiki kings and desert sands) as well as some CC's (pharoah) and they should be arriving today or tomorrow.

Is it safe to assume that the different ceramics from BRPoker will be the same, and the CC's from Apache will be about the same?

For instance, if I really like the pharaohs but decide to go with a different design CC (dunes, CPS, etc), should I be ordering more samples, or can I assume that they will be pretty much the same as the pharaohs in weight/feel?

 

[BGinGA]

Update:
I ordered some samples of ceramics (tiki kings and desert sands) as well as some CC's (pharoah) and they should be arriving today or tomorrow.

Is it safe to assume that the different ceramics from BRPoker will be the same, and the CC's from Apache will be about the same?

For instance, if I really like the pharaohs but decide to go with a different design CC (dunes, CPS, etc), should I be ordering more samples, or can I assume that they will be pretty much the same as the pharaohs in weight/feel?

The Tiki and Desert Sands are printed on different ceramic blanks -- the Tiki chips have a smoother finish, and thus also sharper printing. The Desert Sands and Nevada Jack skulls have a rougher surface texture.

The Pharaoh's Club chips are relatively comparable to the other china clays of that era from the same manufacturer -- Desert Palms, the original Dunes Commemorative cc chips, and the original 8V-spotted blanks (on the reverse-S mold). Although all four have distinctive molds, they share identical materials and thus similar weights and sound/feel characteristics.

Very early china clays (Casino da Vinci, Pyramid Casino, and other labeled and blank spirit mold chips) are all comparable to the Progen-style chips (reverse-J greek key mold) of that era, and bear some resemblence to the PGI-produced china clays (reverse-L greek key mold, with either 4d12 or 8V spots), although the PGI chips were supposedly made using superior PGI-supplied virgin materials (vs lower quality recycled materials).

The Milano chips are somewhat unique, with materials and a mold design that combined to create a chip with less desireable play characteristics than other china clay chips of that era, reflected by it's lower price point.

More recently produced china clays such as CPS, Majestics, Dunes v2, and Royals have more of a plastic feel (and brighter colors) due to material composition changes, although the CPS and Royals do differ somewhat due to unique mold surface texture (CPS) and larger size (43mm Royals).

 

[pipdenny]

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/cps-tourney-set.56748/

If you are good with China Clays, this will cover way more then 1 table.... And it's under your price range.

UPDATE: I decided to go for this set from Josh!

Thank you all so much for the insight and guidance, and thank you Josh for the deal

I look forward to pestering you all in the future with more newbie dribble, but for now you have my most sincere gratitude.

Now it's time to buy a birdcage! Any reccommendations?

Thanks again!!

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

UPDATE: I decided to go for this set from Josh!

Thank you all so much for the insight and guidance, and thank you Josh for the deal

I look forward to pestering you all in the future with more newbie dribble, but for now you have my most sincere gratitude.

Now it's time to buy a birdcage! Any reccommendations?

Thanks again!!

Very nice set! Don't be a stranger. There's a lot to learn and see (and buy) around here. You'll need a cash set next!

You don't need no stinkin birdcage! Follow THIS thread.

 

[Kid_Eastwood]

10 players, you can go with the following breakdown :

Base T100 :
T100 x 100
T500 x 60
T1000 x 110
T5000 x 100

--> this gives you 10 starting stacks of 20.000 as 10/6/11/1 with starting blinds 100-100 (200 BB) or 100-200 (100 BB).

This allows also 10 rebuys (4 x 5000) AND 10 addons (4 x 5000).

It also has a T5000 per player to manage the color-up of the T100 and T500.

What I would do in your budget is to push it to 400 chips :
100 x 100
80 x 500
120 x 1000
100 x 5000
Then move starting stack to 10/8/10/1.

And order custom CPC solid chips starting at 1.29 each. --> $516.
http://www.classicpokerchips.com/pokerchips/realclay/pricelist.htm

Ideally I'd also order 5 x 25,000 plaques in case you need to color-up the T1000.

It's just a little bit over your budget but at least you would get a compression mold custom set.

Also, buy few spares (ex : 10 of each value) in order to replace damaged or lost chips if it happens.

Last but not least : try these chips by buying samples before buying.

Note 1 : since it's a tourney set, go for denominated chips.
Note 2 : I proposed you a T100 based set as it's becoming the standard on the circuit.
Note 3 : if you go the hotstamp route (instead of an inlay) with for instance your initials on one sidd and the denom on the other side, you'll stay in your budget !

Kid.