PAHWM $2/5 NLHE AQs (2 Viewers)

[Payback]

The discussion slowed as the flop choices are rather simple, call or raise. Hero elects to call to keep the SB range wide Vs. letting him get away from his bluffs cheaply. Let's move on!

Hero calls

Turn $685: Ks

SB checks pretty quickly

 

[BGinGA]

Check. I think that was a gin card for Villain.

 

[Highli99]

That’s one of the worst cards for us. A quick check from SB is interesting considering the bet on the flop. Why give up the lead? Is it a trap? Is is it that he has 7-10 or 8-7 and has been intimidated by our call and the flush draw? I waffle between checking and betting $350. I’m going to say bet because he appears to be scared of the turn. I am less clear on action now than I was on earlier streets. Meanwhile @davin has jammed hours ago and is just waiting for the runout.

 

[v1pe]

Ugly ugly ugly! Check back and hope for a cheap showdown.

 

[Sparty]

all of you guys amaze me. How in the heck can you remember a hand that happened a month ago play by play/bet by bet? ...this is why I will never be good a poker. But the pictures sure make it easier for us novices to follow along! thanks!

 

[Payback]

all of you guys amaze me. How in the heck can you remember a hand that happened a month ago play by play/bet by bet? ...this is why I will never be good a poker. But the pictures sure make it easier for us novices to follow along! thanks!

I actually wrote this down but ask anyone that's played with me and they will verify I can remember hands for years. Just the way my brain works. Names, I can't remember them for more than 16 seconds...

 

[Sparty]

I actually wrote this down but ask anyone that's played with me and they will verify I can remember hands for years. Just the way my brain works. Names, I can't remember them for more than 16 seconds...

I can remember that Alan Trammell batted .343 in 1987, but poker -all i usually remember is getting screwed on some crazy river card.

UTG is sitting on around $500. Playing around 90/10 as he wants to see most flops. Hero has seen his hole cards more than once and he refuses to cover them so yeah... Has made bets on flops with nothing and taken a few pots or has folded when raised.
CO just rebought for $200. Lost to SB aces vs. His TP.
Button has $500
-older guy. Only played one hand in the last 30 minutes even when short
SB has $2200:
-middle aged white male, rec player, says he's only played a few times before.
-has won around 1k in the last two orbits, twice bet pot into PFR, seemed irratic
-RR a $20 bet to $50 twice previously with AA.

I guess this is my first mistake. You remember all this ^ stuff about your opponents. I'd be like, "I was playing with these dudes: Bob, Jim, Trevor and Bubba"...
Bob - likes to see flops.
Jim - was losing that day.
Trevor - needed to turn his hearing aid up. Not sure why he came to the poker room - didn't look like he was eager to play any hands.
and Bubba - was having a good day, and kept saying "it's just money".

(sorry for the thread derail).

 

[Sparty]

...and now that the King of Spades showed up...."check"

 

[Rhodeman77]

SB if he is just a casual rec player may be playing just his hand and betting on the flop when he thinks he is good and checking when he thinks that is very bad card for him on the turn.

Checking a made straight or flush makes no sense. SB has no reason to think Hero will bet for him. Trying to induce a bluff doesn’t fit, this guy doesn’t seem that deep of a thinker.

Hero may very well be behind a set here. This could be a great time to turn our hand into a bluff. The question is do we try it as a two street bluff betting $250 now and jamming a non board pairing river or just jam now?

I think go for the max fold equity and jam here.

 

[DoubleEagle]

This could be a great time to turn our hand into a bluff.

Can SB be bluffed? Old adage, “Dont try to bluff people who cant be bluffed.” If SB cant think past his own holding this is going to be a problem.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Can SB be bluffed? Old adage, “Dont try to bluff people who cant be bluffed.” If SB cant think past his own holding this is going to be a problem.

I think so, his check after leading the flop tells us he is scared of the Ks. After all it completes just about every draw that Hero would have called with in his mind!

SB even has to worry about KK from hero. If he was looking to crack AA or KK preflop he is now losing to 1/2 of those.

 

[kirchhausen]

I'm guessing a quick check on a board like that means the board scared SB. Which means if he lead out he probably flopped a big hand, maybe 99 or 66? I worry that if we try to turn our hand into a bluff on this street SB might call hoping to boat up. IMO we should wait until the river does not pair the board and then make a pot size bet if we feel we can bluff him off the hand. If river does pair the board, fold if bet into or check back.

 

[Kain8]

I'm guessing a quick check on a board like that means the board scared SB. Which means if he lead out he probably flopped a big hand, maybe 99 or 66? I worry that if we try to turn our hand into a bluff on this street SB might call hoping to boat up. IMO we should wait until the river does not pair the board and then make a pot size bet if we feel we can bluff him off the hand. If river does pair the board, fold if bet into or check back.

This.

 

[derekdd23]

A little late to the party, but this is a must 3-bet pre OOP with a ton of people in the hand. Taking a pot multi-way OOP is not a winning strategy no matter how bad the other players are.

Flop flat call is standard.

I don't feel like a rec would Donk so large with a FD, usually that would be a smaller bet. Donk bets from recs with a check back turn are often just probes. I would personally put his range as QJ, KQ, AQ, A9, 1010, and some random weirdness like 88 and J9. In this spot I try to get a read and usually make a $350 bet to get some value out of what should be a stronger range. I then re-evaluate the river.

 

[Frogzilla]

I see no reason to turn our 2nd pair into a bluff. Check back

 

[Payback]

The turn is a tricky spot. Obviously this is one of the worst cards in the deck, however SB doesn't know that and his lead/check line is a bit odd. It does seem to indicate he more than likely dislikes the turn. Against a pro Hero would check back, but against a rec player Hero has been trying to find ways to get value. This seems like a super thin spot, but against a rec player this could be one of those times to find additional value as we can get called by spades, any Q, and even JJ, TT that has a spade.

Hero elects to protect his equity if he's ahead and bets $325.

SB thinks for a minute, counts out chips, looks like he is going to fold, but then calls.

River $1335: 6c

SB leads for $300.

 

[Moxie Mike]

I'd have checked back the turn - primarily because I'm a fan of playing small ball in these types of situations. The case for betting is solid though as well.

I don't think you're ahead very often here... but you're getting 5 to 1 on a call. If it were me, I'd probably say goodbye out loud to the 3 black chips and fling them my opponent's way expecting to see him turn over something dumb like .

 

[Highli99]

Wipe your tears and make the call. Remember how you got in this situation.

 

[v1pe]

What a run out.

$300 to win $1900... Right? I don't think you can fold for such a ridiculous price? Probably a puke call.

 

[Payback]

What a run out.

$300 to win $1900... Right? I don't think you can fold for such a ridiculous price? Probably a puke call.

300 to win 1665 so about 5.5:1 on a call.

 

[Rhodeman77]

He has pretty much told us what he has with his betting line on every street. Save the $300 and fold.

I think a jam would have taken the pot down on the turn

If you are calling off $300 now you should have bet the extra $300 on the turn instead.

 

[v1pe]

300 to win 1665 so about 5.5:1 on a call.

Don't you add in your calling amount to the $ won?

$1335 + $300 (SB) = $1635 in the pot before your call
$300 (H call) + $1635 = $1935 total pot after call

That's how I've always thought about it.

Either way it's a ridiculous price, but it's also 60BBs...I am totally fine with a fold, but most likely the "GTO" numbers would say this is a call if you can ever assign him with a bluffing range (even a very small one).

 

[Kain8]

So to sum up:

Up against a recreational player.

We have second pair, top kicker on a three-flush paired board.

The flush card on the turn does not dissuade our opponent from calling our bet.

Now our opponent leads on the river after the board pairs.


In what universe are we ahead of ANYTHING here?


Edit: If hero makes a call and wins against a tabled , that'll be incredibly delicious.

 

[derekdd23]

He probably doesn't have many bluffs here at this point and I doubt he folds to a jam given your stack size. In a vacuum I tilt call 10% and fold 90%. That number can change depending on live reads.

 

[Payback]

Don't you add in your calling amount to the $ won?

$1335 + $300 (SB) = $1635 in the pot before your call
$300 (H call) + $1635 = $1935 total pot after call

That's how I've always thought about it.

Either way it's a ridiculous price, but it's also 60BBs...I am totally fine with a fold, but most likely the "GTO" numbers would say this is a call if you can ever assign him with a bluffing range (even a very small one).

Don't count the money you're calling with as it's not on the pot and therefore not laying you anything.

 

[Frogzilla]

Im loving how V is playing this hand. Man that’s a good line. River decision doesn’t matter. Flip a mental coin. Look at the clock, whatever.

Our turn lead is a head-scratcher...surprised you went for that.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Im loving how V is playing this hand. Man that’s a good line. River decision doesn’t matter. Flip a mental coin. Look at the clock, whatever.

Our turn lead is a head-scratcher...surprised you went for that.

It wasn’t a turn lead by Hero. It was checked to Hero and he bet.

 

[Frogzilla]

It wasn’t a turn lead by Hero. It was checked to Hero and he bet.

Just FYI, “lead” can mean first bet on a street regardless of player. Here are references.

I will concede that the more common usage is indeed for the OOP player.

http://www.poker-vibe.com/poker/terms/lead/

http://dictionary.pokerzone.com/Lead

https://www.pokernews.com/pokerterms/lead.htm

 

[power13]

In these spots, I find it never hurts to see if you can get villain talking. It always surprises me how often people will give off pretty helpful info in gross spots. If you do it all the time then it's less effective but if you ask some questions, the worst that happens is they are stone-faced and you're in the same spot.

Given no other info, I'm definitely calling with these odds. I really don't think we are up against a flush given this line, and I struggle to see any 6x combos that would play this way either. There are only 4 combos of boats+ that make sense to me here, and 3 combos of straights that are hard to easily see taking this line (though not impossible). That's 7 combos -- can we come up with 2 combos of bluffs? Even if he might have some kings here we still probably only need to add 2 or 3 bluff combos to make calling profitable. I see a BUNCH of potential bluffs from a pocket pair with a spade here. Maybe even another AQ with the ace of spades for a chop? It would be super random, but more likely than seeing him with a 6 here. You're easily good here often enough IMO to call.

 

[Kain8]

What happened next?!