Patriots fans (and non-Patriots fans I suppose) (1 Viewer)

[snooptodd]

"All of the balls—Patriots balls and Colts balls—lost pressure by halftime. Significantly, the 11 Patriot balls showed greater decreases than the four Colt balls tested. More significantly, judging by what the scientists employed by Wells told him, eight of the 11 balls tested at halftime fell within the expected range of pressure drop based on the measurements of at least one of the two NFL officials who gauged the pigskins. This, more than anything else, invalidates the conclusions of the Wells Report. Though Ted Wells theorizes a conspiracy to depressurize balls, measurements by NFL referees on the majority of the Patriots balls read precisely where the scientific firm employed by the investigators said a ball inflated to 12.5 psi–the NFL minimum–would fall to (between 11.52 and 11.32) as a result of game-time conditions."

http://www.breitbart.com/sports/201...eport-damns-investigators-more-than-patriots/

But what about the text messages? Those seem a lot more damning to me. (Pasted below for those who haven't read the report - the first few came after a game when Brady complained in a postgame press conference about how the balls were overinflated after a regular season game in October)

Personally I find it hilarious that the guy asked for so many pairs of sneakers.

McNally: You working

Jastremski: Yup

McNally: Nice dude….jimmy needs some kicks….lets make a deal…..come on help the deflator

McNally: Chill buddy im just fu-kin with you ….im not going to espn……..yet"

McNally: Tom sucks…im going make that next ball a fu-kin balloon

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done…

Jastremski: I told him it was. He was right though…

Jastremski: I checked some of the balls this morn… The refs fu-ked us…a few of then were at almost 16

Jastremski: They didnt recheck then after they put air in them

McNally: Fu-k tom …16 is nothing…wait till next sunday

Jastremski: Omg! Spaz"

Jastremski: Can’t wait to give you your needle this week

McNally: Fu-k tom….make sure the pump is attached to the needle…..fu-kin watermelons coming

Jastremski: So angry

McNally: The only thing deflating sun..is his passing rating
Jastremski: Can’t wait to give you your needle this week

McNally: Fu-k tom….make sure the pump is attached to the needle…..fu-kin watermelons coming

Jastremski: So angry

McNally: The only thing deflating sun..is his passing rating
Jastremski: Can’t wait to give you your needle this week

McNally: Fu-k tom….make sure the pump is attached to the needle…..fu-kin watermelons coming

Jastremski: So angry

McNally: The only thing deflating sun..is his passing rating"

Jastremski: I have a big needle for u this week

McNally: Better be surrounded by cash and newkicks….or its a rugby sunday

McNally: Fu-k tom

Jastremski: Maybe u will have some nice size 11s in ur locker

McNally: Tom must really be working your balls hard this week
Jastremski: I have a big needle for u this week

McNally: Better be surrounded by cash and newkicks….or its a rugby sunday

McNally: Fu-k tom

Jastremski: Maybe u will have some nice size 11s in ur locker

McNally: Tom must really be working your balls hard this week"

Jastremski: Size 11?

Jastremski: 2 or 3X?

McNally: Tom must really be on you

McNally: 11 0r 11 half……2x unless its tight fitting

Jastremski: Nah. Hasn’t even mentioned it, figured u should get something since he gives u nothing"

McNally: Remember to put a couple sweet pig skins ready for tom to sign

Jastremski: U got it kid…big autograph day for you

McNally: Nice throw some kicks in and make it real special

Jastremski: It ur lucky. 11?

McNally: 11 or 11 and half kid"[/QUOTE}

 

[Ronoh]

I just find it hilarious that everyone is ready to crucify them, after the league was warned by the crybaby Colts that the balls may be under-inflated..

Much like when I'm reading any type of political comments, once the silly name
calling starts any opinion you have on the entire matter instantly becomes completely irrelevant.

 

[manamongkids]

Much like when I'm reading any type of political comments, once the silly name
calling starts any opinion you have on the entire matter instantly becomes completely irrelevant.

I would also say the same of someone who takes one single word from the 1000 words I wrote and says that my opinion is irrelevant. Crybaby was literally the only name calling I did, one word. So to each their own.

 

[Ronoh]

I would also say the same of someone who takes one single word from the 1000 words I wrote and says that my opinion is irrelevant. Crybaby was literally the only name calling I did, one word. So to each their own.

One word is all it takes. If you're attempting to make political points and end with something about republicants or democraps or something similarly silly it strongly suggests exactly where your point of view is coming from.

If a team was down 22-0 in the 6th inning of game 7 in the ALCS and they feel they have evidence the opposing pitcher is doctoring the ball should they sit on the info due to the fact they were going to lose the game anyways?

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Let's be clear that cheating before the game started might have been wrong by some people's standards no matter how unneeded it was based on the final score. Perhaps the edge was small, and in this specific case unimportant but all of us poker players understand a winning player often needs those types of small edges to eek out a win.

I can accept the premise that cheating is a essential part of professional sports. If you get caught you might get punished, but you never give up the wins {except in cycling where every winner seems to cheat but we pretend otherwise}. Let's give a tip of the hat to the folks who were clever enough, ballsy enough and successful which ever sport they play. If you aren't cheating, you aren't trying hard enough.

It works that way in real life too. The most successful folks in many fields of endeavor did not take their professional ethics courses to heart. Cheaters prosper, honest fair play is for suckers and want-to-bes. It is a rare day when a lack of integrity actually costs anyone more than they gained from cheating. Why should professional sports be any different?

You get cynical when you get old -=- DrStrange

So is Tom Brady hero or villain?

 

[manamongkids]

One word is all it takes. If you're attempting to make political points and end with something about republicants or democraps or something similarly silly it strongly suggests exactly where your point of view is coming from.

If a team was down 22-0 in the 6th inning of game 7 in the ALCS and they feel they have evidence the opposing pitcher is doctoring the ball should they sit on the info due to the fact they were going to lose the game anyways?

I'm not quite sure you have read any of the information about the game or the matter at hand. The Colts were also using a "doctored" ball in this situation as the report discovered. They too were using under-inflated balls.

 

[manamongkids]

One thing I think everyone can agree on is that the NFL is a joke in terms of protocols and its practices of those protocols. Goodell has made a mockery of these investigations, no1 trusts anyone he hires, whether you are for or against the matter at hand.

Hiring firms who have histories of being subjective in their practices, hiring investigators who are tied to the NFL corporate office or team owners.

 

[DrStrange]

Tom Brady is successful. Hero or villain isn't important, success or failure is. As we see in this thread, there is a divergence of opinion about Brady, Hero or Villain. That likely is profitable for the league. Lots of public attention in the "dead" part of the year.

The controversy might effect Brady's endorsement income but his 'no holds barred' approach to the game likely won more games and that would positively effect his endorsement {and other} income. It seems hard to evaluate how all of the controversy is going to effect his income.

In the end, Brady's team won more than any other team these last few year and that is how most folks judge success even if Brady ended up leaving a few dollars on the table.

DrStrange

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

So....deflating balls is +ev?

 

[pltrgyst]

I don't care one way or the other how this comes out, but I would point out that I've seen absolutely nothing in the press, the email records, or the scientific analysis that conflicts with Brady simply having his staff make sure that the balls were at the lower end of the legal pressure range, rather than lower than the minimum legal pressure.

 

[snooptodd]

I think we can all agree that this video is perfect.

 

[manamongkids]

http://yourteamcheats.com/SEA

 

[12thMan]

http://yourteamcheats.com/SEA

I can't imagine the rage and sleepless nights that lit the fire for that website, My screen still smells like bitterness and contempt as I'm typing this, and I was only on there for a few minutes.


I've seen that site before, it's well written and made me laugh a few times reading through it.

 

[bergs]

I don't understand the uproar Pats fans are causing over this. I'm a Cowboys fan, been a huge Romo fan since before he replaced Bledsuck. Here's the thing -

.....our best skill player (Dez) beat his mom. Twice.
....we just resigned a lineman that 3 years ago got drunk, went drag racing with another player, basically killed him, and was convicted of vehicular manslaughter. He'll start Week 1.
....we drafted an offensive lineman who was dumb enough to violate the league's drug policy. On the day before the draft. When he knew he'd be tested within 24 hours.
....we picked up a guy on waivers who's girlfriend is dead. And he's suspected of killing her. And she was pregnant.
....we picked up a top 10 defensive lineman who was suspended for the first 10 games of his 16 game guaranteed money contract. For beating his significant other. Four times.
....our starting running back made $600K last year, but was compelled to steal mens' underwear from a department store. BTW, that joke basically just tells itself.

Is most of this reprehensibly bad? Yup.

Would it stop me from celebrating a Cowboys Super Bowl? Fuuuuuuuuuuuck no. I don't like these players, but I'd celebrate the shit out of a Cowboys Romo-led Super Bowl.

Is what these Cowboys players have done worse than the Patriots bending the rules (again)? Hellllllllllllllllllll yes.

If the situation was reversed and I was a Pats fans, I'd be plastering responses with Super Bowl trophies and typing "SUCCCCCK IT" in 500 point flashing neon green bolded font.

Cmon Pats fans - you guys break and bend rules all the time...it's Belichick's greatest gift and his greatest curse. He's like Worm - he could probably win without his perceived edges, but hey, why risk it? He just can't pass up the opportunity to try proving to the league that he's smarter than everyone else.

The real question is this - why isn't it enough for Belichick and the other Pats just to win and STFU? Yeah, the NFL kinda screwed you but you got the fucking Lombardi trophy. Tell them to suck it.

 

[ChipEnvy]

From the front page of your source.... "So you think there's only one NFL team that cheats?" I wonder which team this unbiased source could possibly be referencing?

 

[bergs]

fivethirtyeight makes a legitimate argument that the Pats did in fact materially benefit from football deflation...their fumble rate is absurdly low in comparison to historical averages and the rest of the league in 2013-14 and 2014-15. I've got to believe that a deflated football is a lot easier to carry and protect than a fully inflated ball.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/fivethirtyeight-dissects-the-deflategate-report/

 

[brianb1091]

I don't understand the uproar Pats fans are causing over this. I'm a Cowboys fan, been a huge Romo fan since before he replaced Bledsuck. Here's the thing -

.....our best skill player (Dez) beat his mom. Twice.
....we just resigned a lineman that 3 years ago got drunk, went drag racing with another player, basically killed him, and was convicted of vehicular manslaughter. He'll start Week 1.
....we drafted an offensive lineman who was dumb enough to violate the league's drug policy. On the day before the draft. When he knew he'd be tested within 24 hours.
....we picked up a guy on waivers who's girlfriend is dead. And he's suspected of killing her. And she was pregnant.
....we picked up a top 10 defensive lineman who was suspended for the first 10 games of his 16 game guaranteed money contract. For beating his significant other. Four times.
....our starting running back made $600K last year, but was compelled to steal mens' underwear from a department store. BTW, that joke basically just tells itself.

Is most of this reprehensibly bad? Yup.

Would it stop me from celebrating a Cowboys Super Bowl? Fuuuuuuuuuuuck no. I don't like these players, but I'd celebrate the shit out of a Cowboys Romo-led Super Bowl.

Is what these Cowboys players have done worse than the Patriots bending the rules (again)? Hellllllllllllllllllll yes.

If the situation was reversed and I was a Pats fans, I'd be plastering responses with Super Bowl trophies and typing "SUCCCCCK IT" in 500 point flashing neon green bolded font.

Cmon Pats fans - you guys break and bend rules all the time...it's Belichick's greatest gift and his greatest curse. He's like Worm - he could probably win without his perceived edges, but hey, why risk it? He just can't pass up the opportunity to try proving to the league that he's smarter than everyone else.

The real question is this - why isn't it enough for Belichick and the other Pats just to win and STFU? Yeah, the NFL kinda screwed you but you got the fucking Lombardi trophy. Tell them to suck it.

Bingo!

I'd have more respect for NE fans who just said "yep we cheated and we got away with it so what? Bet you wish you was us don't ya?" The constant denial and/or justification by saying other people do this and that is weak to me. Embrace who you are and be happy with your wins. Otherwise you're really kind of cheating for nothing. Think of the Raiders of the 70's and the Pistons of the early 90's. Imagine if instead of embracing their bad boy images they cried to everyone about how they really were just misunderstood choir boys?

 

[Lucky Dog]

The truth is all the teams are jacking around with the footballs and that is why the NFL is soft on this investigation. The NFL is well aware of the problem across the league. The Patriots have fine tuned the pre game football manipulation better than any other team. In fact they have used the soft football to create a competitive advantage by having far fewer turnovers than any other team during the Brady era. That advantage can be the difference in two or three games a year which has a major effect on playoff seeding and home field advantage. The Patriots should not be punished for manipulating the football as most, if not all the teams are guilty to some degree. Because an unfair advantage due to a rules violation has been identified the referees need to have complete control of all the balls all the time from this point forward. Every team should play with the same balls and the referees should monitor those balls before, during and after each game.

 

[ssanel54]

fivethirtyeight makes a legitimate argument that the Pats did in fact materially benefit from football deflation...their fumble rate is absurdly low in comparison to historical averages and the rest of the league in 2013-14 and 2014-15. I've got to believe that a deflated football is a lot easier to carry and protect than a fully inflated ball.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/fivethirtyeight-dissects-the-deflategate-report/

It may also be attributed to the fact that when a player fumbles the ball in NE, he usually ends up on the bench for the rest of the season.

 

[snooptodd]

I have a fun exercise for people defending the Pats and Brady: Read the NFL's report and replace "Brady" with "Peyton Manning" or replace "Patriots" with "New York Jets," then decide what you think of the report. And yes, the Pats destroyed the Colts, so the balls likely had little impact in the outcome of THAT game. But how many close games have the Patriots played in the last 3-4 years (this clearly has been happening for some time) in which Patriots' receivers caught a 3rd down pass or a touchdown pass they may not have with a fully inflated ball? How many times did a Patriots' player hang on to the ball while being tackled when they may have otherwise fumbled? (see the 538 report that bergs linked to above.)

These small edges matter. The fact that the Patriots were actively circumventing rules to gain them is significant and both the team and Brady should be punished. If you haven't read the report yourself but have a passionate feeling about it, you really should. It's pretty incredible.

https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.co...s-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh.pdf

And if small edges don't matter, is it okay for the host of a poker game to mark cards in his home game? The marked cards won't affect who wins a hand, because if the host has a better hand, he's going to win anyway, right?

 

[brianb1091]

I have a fun exercise for people defending the Pats and Brady: Read the NFL's report and replace "Brady" with "Peyton Manning" or replace "Patriots" with "New York Jets," then decide what you think of the report. And yes, the Pats destroyed the Colts, so the balls likely had little impact in the outcome of THAT game. But how many close games have the Patriots played in the last 3-4 years (this clearly has been happening for some time) in which Patriots' receivers caught a 3rd down pass or a touchdown pass they may not have with a fully inflated ball? How many times did a Patriots' player hang on to the ball while being tackled when they may have otherwise fumbled? (see the 538 report that bergs linked to above.)

These small edges matter. The fact that the Patriots were actively circumventing rules to gain them is significant and both the team and Brady should be punished. If you haven't read the report yourself but have a passionate feeling about it, you really should. It's pretty incredible.

https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.co...s-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh.pdf

And if small edges don't matter, is it okay for the host of a poker game to mark cards in his home game? The marked cards won't affect who wins a hand, because if the host has a better hand, he's going to win anyway, right?

Another spot on analysis! It has everything to do with the fact that the Patriots have a cloud of suspicion already hanging over them and nothing to do with being a Patriot hater or jealous fan. That's what comes with cheating; you lose the benefit of the doubt. It's why most sane people don't ever consider cheating because no one will ever trust you again and losing that trust is generally not worth the small advantage you might get from cheating.

As far as what advantage did the Patriots or Brady have to gain, think about your own experiences. I'm sure we've all know someone who cheated, whether it be on a an exam, their taxes, or maybe a significant other. Was it ever the person you thought should be cheating or was it the guy or gal that you couldn't understand why they was cheating because it seemed they already had it all? Often times the people who cheat are the ones that we enable to cheat because we defend everything they do because they are attractive, popular, funny, or famous. Cheating, like other things, is not always about what you gain but the power you could have in getting one over on everyone else. Cheaters often dare you to call them out because if you do they will use their influence to raise questions about you rather than themselves. Kind of like in court where you don't have to prove that the witness didn't see you rob the bank if you can instead attack their credibility or raise doubt that they had a clear view of the bank. Doesn't change the fact that you did indeed rob the bank does it?

To continue your home poker analogy I am assuming that the Pats fans who defend them would have no problem inviting a suspected cheater back to their game assuming that it was never "proven" they cheated or that they got an advantage from the cheating?

 

[ssanel54]

Another spot on analysis! It has everything to do with the fact that the Patriots have a cloud of suspicion already hanging over them and nothing to do with being a Patriot hater or jealous fan. That's what comes with cheating; you lose the benefit of the doubt. It's why most sane people don't ever consider cheating because no one will ever trust you again and losing that trust is generally not worth the small advantage you might get from cheating.

As far as what advantage did the Patriots or Brady have to gain, think about your own experiences. I'm sure we've all know someone who cheated, whether it be on a an exam, their taxes, or maybe a significant other. Was it ever the person you thought should be cheating or was it the guy or gal that you couldn't understand why they was cheating because it seemed they already had it all? Often times the people who cheat are the ones that we enable to cheat because we defend everything they do because they are attractive, popular, funny, or famous. Cheating, like other things, is not always about what you gain but the power you could have in getting one over on everyone else. Cheaters often dare you to call them out because if you do they will use their influence to raise questions about you rather than themselves. Kind of like in court where you don't have to prove that the witness didn't see you rob the bank if you can instead attack their credibility or raise doubt that they had a clear view of the bank. Doesn't change the fact that you did indeed rob the bank does it?

To continue your home poker analogy I am assuming that the Pats fans who defend them would have no problem inviting a suspected cheater back to their game assuming that it was never "proven" they cheated or that they got an advantage from the cheating?

Guys, the problem with your argument is that you are assuming that the Patriots are always cheating, and that their opponents never are. Lets look at the Jets...they have already been penalized for Cheating this offseason... There was no grey area surrounding it. Now let's assume that since the Jets are known cheaters, that they were probably cheating in every game against the Pats (including a number of games they inexplicably won). Maybe both sides cheating cancels each other out...but you can't just look at one side and make those arguments.

 

[snooptodd]

Guys, the problem with your argument is that you are assuming that the Patriots are always cheating, and that their opponents never are. Lets look at the Jets...they have already been penalized for Cheating this offseason... There was no grey area surrounding it. Now let's assume that since the Jets are known cheaters, that they were probably cheating in every game against the Pats (including a number of games they inexplicably won). Maybe both sides cheating cancels each other out...but you can't just look at one side and make those arguments.

The point is they have been penalized. And the Pats should be too, right?

 

[Chicken Rob]

The point is they have been penalized. And the Pats should be too, right?

I have no problems with the pats being called out for this. I have no problem with the pats being penalized for this, but the league is full of cheating, and as such, I don't understand why it is a bigger deal when the Pats do it than the other teams do. On the "Your Team Cheats" website, they are in the middle of the pack as 16th in the league in cheating. Also, I have read articles (not the original report) that show the Colts were deflating the balls as well. I have not seen huge news stories about this. The whole thing just comes off as more pro-wrestling style non-sense to me and makes it harder to take any of it seriously.

 

[ssanel54]

The point is they have been penalized. And the Pats should be too, right?

Sure, If the NFL believes that the Patriots were cheating, then they should be penalized. But if manipulating a football is such an egregious offense, then why are they singling out the Patriots? Aaron Rodgers admitted doing the same thing, yet the NFL does not see the need to spend millions of dollars in order to prove it, nor do they feel the need to penalize the Packers organization. Its not like Green Bay has not been a perennial powerhouse in the NFC, winning superbowls and MVP's...

When you look at all of the details of Deflategate, its clear that the NFL is just as guilty as the Patriots of bending the rules, and they totally mangled their handling of the situation. Instead of hiding behind all the layers of BS, just admit to the witch hunt that this really is.

At the end of the day, Goddell will probably lay down some absurd penalty for Brady that does not at all fit the crime, and there will be all sorts of new protocols on how footballs need to be handled before the game. Brady and Rodgers will still be the best QBs in the league, and all of the mediocre teams and QB's that really do need their balls set a certain way will suffer the most.

 

[manamongkids]

The point is they have been penalized. And the Pats should be too, right?

For someone like 30 posts ago that said you don't care about football and have no dog in the fight you are still keeping this thread alive with new info.

I'm over it

They hate us cause they ain't us baby

One for the thumb

 

[Chicken Rob]

Not that I think it's the NFLs job to police what happens off the field, but there is a code of personal conduct in the NFL. I just think this is what it looks like especially when you consider the investigation shows the colts had deflated balls too.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Wow Brady gone four games, New England gets a 2016 first round and 2017 fourth round pick taken away. Also a million dollar fine for th Patriots. Goodwill isn't playing around.

 

[jbutler]

Wow Brady gone four games, New England gets a 2016 first round and 2017 fourth round pick taken away. Also a million dollar fine for th Patriots. Goodwill isn't playing around.

plus he squeezed in getting bill simmons fired, too, so kudos

 

[kirchhausen]

Brady: 4 games without pay
Patriots: $1million fine, lose 1st round pick in 2016 and 4th rounder in 2017.

Harsh IMO.