PCF member dennis63 becomes a real casino dealer (1 Viewer)

[WedgeRock]

I'm not clear. Based on your explanation of what happens, the dealer already has two hole cards, so the initial deal is complete and players and hitting or staying on their hands. If I hit and you expose the card, so what, I already hit... I assume you mean that you prematurely expose the card before the player signals for a hit/stay?

If correct, what happens to the exposed card? Is it dealt where it normally would have been dealt? Is it discarded?

 

[moose]

All the marginal situations would change. Eg instead of always splitting 88, likely it would be better to hit if the dealer shows 19 or better.

 

[atomiktoaster]

I've learned there are some casinos where both dealer cards are dealt face-up. It has been said that the casino's win at those tables can actually be higher, because players take risks they wouldn't normally if they didn't know the dealer's hole card.

Anyone here play at one of those places? Any opinions on how this changes the strategy or the outcome?

https://wizardofodds.com/games/double-exposure/

I haven't seen a double exposure table, but I figured there would need to be some rule changes to preserve the house edge. Seems like I was correct: the house wins all ties and blackjack pays even money.

 

[DJ Mack]

I haven't seen a double exposure table, but I figured there would need to be some rule changes to preserve the house edge. Seems like I was correct: the house wins all ties and blackjack pays even money.

I've never seen one either other than in video games, then again I'm not a huge casino patron. As WoO notes the house edge is already slightly higher than in traditional blackjack, but to @dennis63's point I suspect that given the rarity few people have mastered its basic strategy. It is different than traditional BJ. That leads to players who are otherwise good at traditional BJ being overconfident. It's kind of like saying I'm an expert at Texas Hold 'em so I'll have no problem mopping the floor in Omaha if I just get used to the four card bit. Not so.

But then take your average BJ player who regularly does stupid shit and he'll really cream himself when he thinks he now has perfect information (he doesn't). To a point Dennis raised many posts ago - on paper BJ says the house edge is 5% or less, but in reality it's 100% because people are stupid. The guy or gal who can sit there for two hours and play basic strategy and walk away having paid $30 for two hours of entertainment is a rare breed indeed. They're tolerated because they are so rare and they make suckers nearby think it is possible to win. Unlike card counters they're not making money either so there's no real risk to the casino. But if everyone correctly played basic strategy there's no way the casinos could stay in business.

 

[Poker Zombie]

. But if everyone correctly played basic strategy there's no way the casinos could stay in business

This is sad, but true. Yet the casinos allow (even give) basic strategy cards (I used one myself on the few times I've played). Yet between the free drinks, other comps, dealer wages and incidentals, blackjack is still profitable for casinos.

 

[DJ Mack]

Yet the casinos allow (even give) basic strategy cards

Of course they do. Think back to high school. When the teacher announced that a test was going to be open book everyone went "YES! This is going to kick ass." But then when the exam was passed out it suddenly became the hardest test you've ever taken. Why? Because you had to know the material backwards and forwards to be able to put the information in front of you to use.

Very few casino patrons can claim to have mastered basic strategy. Yeah people might know pieces and parts but to be successful one must apply them all correctly and consistently over a long period of time. One slip up can undo an hour of work. I'd wager (haha) that few impulse control-challenged casino patrons have the patience to do so. Give them a card with the "inside scoop" and they will wager more (after all, they have the answers to the test!). All the while failing spectacularly at following what is right in front of them.

Casinos are nothing but a giant working laboratory of human psychology, and the best part? The lab rats pay to live there.

Yet between the free drinks, other comps, dealer wages and incidentals, blackjack is still profitable for casinos.

Yep. Dennis made $1,500 for his employer in one fall of the cards from an idiot 20 something. That's a lot of booze from one chucklehead.

 

[dennis63]

I'm not clear. Based on your explanation of what happens, the dealer already has two hole cards, so the initial deal is complete and players and hitting or staying on their hands. If I hit and you expose the card, so what, I already hit... I assume you mean that you prematurely expose the card before the player signals for a hit/stay?

If correct, what happens to the exposed card? Is it dealt where it normally would have been dealt? Is it discarded?

Yes. I should explain that all players and the dealer received their first card face up. The second card is dealt face up to the players and face down to the dealer and placed (face down) under the dealer's one visible card. No one has given a "hit" or "stay" signal yet.

In this case, I drew the final card, the dealer's second card, and accidentally exposed it for an instant instead of holding it face.down on the felt and sliding it under the first dealer card.

We had not yet gotten to the players' turns

 

[WedgeRock]

Yes. I should explain that all players and the dealer received their first card face up. The second card is dealt face up to the players and face down to the dealer and placed (face down) under the dealer's one visible card. No one has given a "hit" or "stay" signal yet.

In this case, I drew the final card, the dealer's second card, and accidentally exposed it for an instant instead of holding it face.down on the felt and sliding it under the first dealer card.

We had not yet gotten to the players' turns

Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Poker Zombie]

hink back to high school. When the teacher announced that a test was going to be open book everyone went "YES! This is going to kick ass." But then when the exam was passed out it suddenly became the hardest test you've ever taken. Why? Because you had to know the material backwards and forwards to be able to put the information in front of you to use.

I only had 1 class that allowed open book tests. Opening the book was optional, but everyone got the same test. The difference was that if you went open book, the highest grade you could get was a "C". 100% = "C". 75%=C.

You could get less, but "You'd have to be real fuckin' stupid. You go home to your momma and complain, that I just called you 'real fuckin stupid', but I'd tell her that her child failed an open-book test."

Greatest teacher ever. Not the most politically correct though.

 

[dennis63]

Law of physics:

Activity + alcohol = disaster

Don't believe me? Hold my beer and watch.

 

[Ronoh]

Yes. I should explain that all players and the dealer received their first card face up. The second card is dealt face up to the players and face down to the dealer and placed (face down) under the dealer's one visible card. No one has given a "hit" or "stay" signal yet.

The dealers first card is dealt face up? Out of a shoe? Before the other players get their second card?

If that's correct it's just wacky... possibly a small thing but I'm failing to wrap my head around it. It's an extra unnecessary move... on the front end you flip a card face up and on the back end you slide the card underneath. Far easier and frankly faster to deal the first card face down and flip the second card face up on top of it.

Small thing that doesn't slightly matter to almost anyone but your casino is really kinda pissing me off as it makes no sense

 

[DJ Mack]

your casino is really kinda pissing me off as it makes no sense

Doesn't seem to affect their profits any...

 

[SuckoutKing]

This did make me think though... as a new dealer, how sharp are you at identifying card counters?

Haha, have you seen these continuous shuffle machines? Good luck on counting that!

 

[Ronoh]

Far easier and frankly faster to deal the first card face down and flip the second card face up on top of it.

Had to stop and go through the motions as it's been 13 years... muscle memory is still there. Was incorrect about it being the second card, first one dealt face down, drag the second one and flip the face down first card face up on top. Same difference, still an extra move they have you doing and it's still pissing me off

 

[WedgeRock]

Far easier and frankly faster to deal the first card face down and flip the second card face up on top of it.

Plus, if the first card it to be dealt down and you accidentally flash it, you can just play it up and make the second card down... The only reason to call the floor is if you expose *both* cards.

 

[moose]

I dunno dealers first card up gives the players more time to decide what to do with the hand.

 

[dennis63]

It's supposed to be an easy move. The first dealer card is face up. To pull the second, just bring it out of the shoe holding it face down on the felt. Touch the right side of the dealer's first card with one finger from your right hand while sliding the face down card under the edge of the up card.

Just doing what they said to do. I know Heather does a different procedure in her videos, and dealt in Vegas for five years.

It all works well until a bone head like me thinks I need to deal it to another player spot and turns it over.

This happens because the player near third base goes back and forth from playing two spots to playing just one spot. For an instant, you think he's playing the spot, but not this time.

 

[dennis63]

Yep. Just checked the blackjack manual for the casino.

"After each player has received one card, the dealer takes one card face up."

and

"The dealer's second card is dealt face down. Slide it under the dealer's first card, and square the cards... No part of the second card is visible."

A casino does nothing without a reason, so there must be some reason for this. Moose may be correct:

I dunno dealers first card up gives the players more time to decide what to do with the hand.

I'm thinking that to the casino, exposing the dealer's up card last may also slow the game pace. Unless the player at first base is a pro, he or she will need a couple of seconds to decide.

 

[upNdown]

This thread has been great. I appreciate all the insights. It's also reminded me how much I hate blackjack.

 

[dennis63]

What is the biggest amount you've won or lost playing blackjack?

Biggest bet you've placed on a hand? How did it turn out?

 

[DJ Mack]

What is the biggest amount you've won or lost playing blackjack?

Biggest bet you've placed on a hand? How did it turn out?

Won: Seven fiddy
Lost: Five dolla

 

[upNdown]

What is the biggest amount you've won or lost playing blackjack?

Biggest bet you've placed on a hand? How did it turn out?

Funny now that I think about it. I was always strictly a $5 guy. The last hand of blackjack I played was 10 years ago. After pissing through the last $100 I wanted to lose, $5 at a time, I pulled another hundred out and bet it. I won, walked away, and now that I think about it, I haven't played blackjack since.

 

[DJ Mack]

Truth be told the only time I have really played is when the casino has a snapper that I want and they won't sell me one outright. Surrendering a $5 bet is effective.

 

[bergs]

Won: Seven fiddy
Lost: Five dolla

Bet $4000, pushed.

Bet $2500 2 consecutive hands and lost.

Bet $2000 three different times, won all 3.

Bet $500-1200 more times than I can remember.

I played a lot of Blackjack (1992-2008) before poker . I memorized the perfect strategy table and then found the game fairly boring as every single situation, without exception, had a mathematically preferred corresponding action.

Anyone remember multi-action BJ at Foxwoods back in '92-94? Now THAT was a fun game.

 

[pedrofisk]

What is the biggest amount you've won or lost playing blackjack?

Biggest bet you've placed on a hand? How did it turn out?

I think the most I ever walked away with was $200. However my formula was more of:

I have X amount of money to make last Y length of time.

If X equaled > 0 before Y ended = Fun time.

 

[CraigT78]

What is the biggest amount you've won or lost playing blackjack?

Biggest bet you've placed on a hand? How did it turn out?

Won $10,000 at horseshoe in shreveport on a $400 buy in. Largest bet was $1,500. I won.

Most I've lost in a single casino session was $1,000.

 

[gopherblue]

Playing in the "high stakes" room at the Casino Lisboa in 2007, I ran a €100(!) buy-in up to €1350 before cashing out for €960. Mostly €10 bets, too, until I realized my stack had grown to several hundred Euro, and this grizzled, old Chinese guy sitting next to me, who was smoking like a chimney, leaned over and said "you should bet more." Started making €20-40 bets and the deck just hit me hard.

But mostly, I view blackjack as a tax on free drinks. If I can sit down at a low stakes table and play $100 for a few hours, have some drinks and a good time, then leave with at least some of my buy-in, I'm happy. But I don't really bother with blackjack any more.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Haha, have you seen these continuous shuffle machines? Good luck on counting that!

To be honest, it's been a really long time since I've sat at a blackjack table. Like Bergs said, it's not really fun if you are playing perfect strategy - you are just robotically going through the motions. You might as well be sitting at a 99% payout slot machine. Give me a poker table any day - with a shuffling machine please.

 

[dennis63]

I played a lot of Blackjack (1992-2008) before poker . I memorized the perfect strategy table and then found the game fairly boring as every single situation, without exception, had a mathematically preferred corresponding action.

I could see that.

We have several Spanish 21 tables at the casino, too. They're very popular. People love the "match the dealer' bets (3 to 1 on each of your cards if it's the same rank as the dealer, 6 to 1 for a "perfect match, number and suit). And the payout table with bonuses for multi-card 21s,

 

[Mental Nomad]

Based on your explanation of what happens, the dealer already has two hole cards...

In blackjack, the dealer only gets one hole card. The other is an up card. The hole card is not supposed to be exposed until after players act, of course.

I was taught all cards face up, players and dealer, until the very last card, like @dennis63.

I'm thinking that to the casino, exposing the dealer's up card last may also slow the game pace. Unless the player at first base is a pro, he or she will need a couple of seconds to decide.

That's certainly part if it. It also seems to make the game more exciting for some people - seeing the dealer's up card, they can know what cards they're hoping to get. There's a moment of anticipation they seem to enjoy. "I might double down... I might double down... "

I think it's also less error-prone. Everything face up, no variation, until the very last player had their second card.

For the hole card, I used to do it just as you describe. If you get consistent, you can just press the right edge and fling the hole card under it straight from the shoe with your left hand almost quicker than you can see it.