Playing 'Bank' - Tips & What I've Already Learned... The Hard Way (3 Viewers)

[BarrieJ3]

2. cash verse electronic depends on the size of the game. Comparing a .25/.50 game to a 2/5, 5/5 or 10/25 game is an apples to oranges comparison. For a micro stakes game, cash generally is fine. But any decent size home game that demands cash for chips is just asking for trouble IMO. I wouldn’t even go to that game but that’s just me.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/sanfran...-arrests-anhkhao-ledo-nicholas-boyd-suspects/

 

[DirtyTIVA]

I’ve never banked since I did it at Spearmint Rhino a few years ago. Months of chasing down installment payments and “dude how could you let me spend so much on Rumor”

Rumor was pretty nice though

 

[JustinInMN]

1. multiple transactions over the course of the night depends on the banker’s tolerance for interruption during the game (assuming the banker is playing). almost every other hand someone wants to reload or top off. I find it annoying and a disruption to my game. Others don’t. For those that don't mind doing numerous banking transaction over the course of the night, G-d bless you and go for it. For those that do mind, the bag system works great.

I do have a rule that top offs must be of at least the minimum buy in (10x BB) to thwart anyone that wants to buy 2 dollars every orbit because they posted blinds and are under the max. After initial buy-ins I would guess I am only in the bank 2-3 times per hour at the most.

The upside to the bag system is that you are comparing everyone's buy-ins to one amount, save the exceptions when the player requires a second bag, which still requires tracking (or you make sure they venmo for the first bag before collecting a second, I suppose)

2. cash verse electronic depends on the size of the game. Comparing a .25/.50 game to a 2/5, 5/5 or 10/25 game is an apples to oranges comparison. For a micro stakes game, cash generally is fine. But any decent size home game that demands cash for chips is just asking for trouble IMO. I wouldn’t even go to that game but that’s just me.

Gosh, at some point stakes are so hi I am just unwilling to play them in a home game. I don't think I would trust a home game at 5-5 and up, I would rather just hit the public casino.

 

[Nine_high]

One argument in favor of a cashless game that I am surprised wasn't made is how much easier it makes cashing players out. Before I switched to Venmo it was such a pain to make change from the $20s and $50s players bring for buy-in, especially when your doing .25/.50 or .50/1. I also hate the idea of having $100-$200 in quarters, ones and fives just sitting around to make change. Don't get me wrong, I love the feeling of walking away with a wad of bills after a night of poker as much as the next guy; my hate for breaking the $50s that people brought for buying into a .25/.50 game simply outweighs that love.

Yeah I found all the trouble goes away by just keeping a change bank handy, a few hundred in mixed small bills. I don't mess with quarters or ones (if someone pitches a fit I'll round to the $1, but they will get laughed at).

It's also my own money so if I run bad I can dip into it to rebuy.

 

[Nine_high]

1. multiple transactions over the course of the night depends on the banker’s tolerance for interruption during the game (assuming the banker is playing). almost every other hand someone wants to reload or top off. I find it annoying and a disruption to my game. Others don’t. For those that don't mind doing numerous banking transaction over the course of the night, G-d bless you and go for it. For those that do mind, the bag system works great.

I don't mind. Everything is within arms reach and a quick buy in or top up is pretty seamless. It all happens in 5s or bigger and my guys rarely add on they just go bust and hand me a hundo so I hand them a barrel of 5s or five 20s or one black.

2. cash verse electronic depends on the size of the game. Comparing a .25/.50 game to a 2/5, 5/5 or 10/25 game is an apples to oranges comparison. For a micro stakes game, cash generally is fine. But any decent size home game that demands cash for chips is just asking for trouble IMO. I wouldn’t even go to that game but that’s just me.

This is very dependent on the people but yes I'd have to agree. We play .25/.50 usually one table and it's not uncommon for the bank to be north of $2k. I can see us doing 1/2 or maybe 2/5 someday, but it seems unlikely the bank would scale up 4-10x.

 

[Mr Winberg]

Then to make it one transaction per player, all the losers pay one player (either the host or the big winner) and that player pays out the other winners, that seems a better system than trying to make wins and losses match up and require split transactions.

I have organized cashless cashgames for years without any issues. I do it as in your write-up, but it is always the host (me) that receives from or pays to each player. So with X players including the host, there will only be at most X-1 transactions. Sometimes less if someone breaks even or chooses to donate a small win.

I agree, matching wins with losses would be a nightmare. Among other drawbacks it would require people to cash out simultaneously.

Using the "ledger system", as I like to call it, doesn't require that all use Venmo. If someone wants to settle in cash, or partly settle with bounty chips, or whatever means of payment there is, that's fine! If their win/loss matches the settlement, their ledger gets a checkmark!

Please note that I'm in no way bashing the cash-only approach. Just pointing out that cashless can be very streamlined if done right.

 

[Mr Winberg]

Here's what I print out each night (Swedish, but you get the point). "Antal marker" = chipcount at cashout). The example shows that the new total should be written when topping up. That way no advanced math needs to be done late at night.

 

[Natskule]

We do cash only.

Really simple, you give me cash, I give you chips, you give me chips, I give you cash.

I don't mix my money with the bank. When I get chips or cash out, I have another person verify, just like I have them verify their chips when an exchange is made. Doesn't take long as starting stacks are already set up, rebuys are with bigger chips and anything less than 5 bucks isn't cashed out, either donated to host or played for.

Never had an issue, but I can see where not using cash could create some.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Never had a wrong bank, not once.

It really is not that hard.

...says the guy that doesn't drink on game night

 

[doublebooyah85]

I really want someone to build/offer this so my dealer has a bigger bank for the table.

This is a table game at the pools at Wynn.

@T_Chan ?!?

 

[T_Chan]

That looks pretty useful. Metal tray?

 

[doublebooyah85]

That looks pretty useful. Metal tray?

Was definitely metal. Since they are at the pool they needed more secure access for chips.

Should have done a video but pretty self explanatory I think!

 

[TonZaga]

We went to Venmo post-COVID because I thought it would be safer/easier to keep track of, but we were always waiting for payments to clear between hands and slowing the game down. We've moved back to cash and can only re-buy/add on between hands. Play is stopped and chips/bills displayed on the table for accuracy before play continues.

 

[doublebooyah85]

We went to Venmo post-COVID because I thought it would be safer/easier to keep track of, but we were always waiting for payments to clear between hands and slowing the game down. We've moved back to cash and can only re-buy/add on between hands. Play is stopped and chips/bills displayed on the table for accuracy before play continues.

If you do Venmo you should wait until the game is over so there is less transactions and just keep a log. But I don’t like this as much bc people lose more when no money is exchanged…

 

[TonZaga]

If you do Venmo you should wait until the game is over so there is less transactions and just keep a log. But I don’t like this as much bc people lose more when no money is exchanged…

Exactly. Now my guys bring what they're willing to lose and that's it. Plus my Venmo doesn't look sketchy with all these transactions back and forth come tax time.

 

[RowlettTexasChipGuy]

...says the guy that doesn't drink on game night

This may be true that I do not drink, but I am always at least 2 gummies in by time cards are in the air

 

[ngmcs8203]

Micro buy ins and rebuys are nearly impossible to keep track of while you are hosting (and drinking), even if you are writing it down. Even if u get the bank right, u need to deal with rebuys every other hand. So annoying as a host. The bag system cures all of that!

At the beginning of the night give every player a bag of chips with a pre- determined amount but enough for multiple rebuys - in your case say $250 (or whatever amount you want). Either collect cash or write it down. Let everyone do their own banking over the course of the night. If a player blows through the bag give them a rebuy in the same amount as the initial bag. The amount of rebuys over the course of the night goes way way down. At the end of the night each player tells you how much they are up or down. Everyone puts their chips in the bag. Add up the ups and downs to make sure the bank is right. if the bank doesn’t add up you can check each persons bag to find the error. This system is so much more accurate accounting wise and enjoyable for the host (not dealing with rebuys all night). Trust me, it works and works well.

Additionally, as a back stop, the initial bag should contain all the lower denominations necessary for the night. If someone does rebuy, introduce a new higher denomination chip. That way you can keep track of the rebuys based upon how many hi denomination chips are in circulation.

so do you ask everyone before they arrive the max number of rebuys they are comfortable with or do you just put in 5x buyins into the bag and they pay you $250 for the bag?

 

[jazzV3]

The point has been made, going cashless isn’t popular. Most of us running .25/.5 don’t cash out anything less than 1 dollar. You can race for the last change which has been mentioned.

This may be true that I do not drink, but I am always at least 2 gummies in by time cards are in the air

Ha..!
I don't do gummies, but the other guys do.
Makes for some interesting hands.

 

[Nine_high]

Micro buy ins and rebuys are nearly impossible to keep track of while you are hosting (and drinking), even if you are writing it down. Even if u get the bank right, u need to deal with rebuys every other hand. So annoying as a host. The bag system cures all of that!

At the beginning of the night give every player a bag of chips with a pre- determined amount but enough for multiple rebuys - in your case say $250 (or whatever amount you want). Either collect cash or write it down. Let everyone do their own banking over the course of the night. If a player blows through the bag give them a rebuy in the same amount as the initial bag. The amount of rebuys over the course of the night goes way way down. At the end of the night each player tells you how much they are up or down. Everyone puts their chips in the bag. Add up the ups and downs to make sure the bank is right. if the bank doesn’t add up you can check each persons bag to find the error. This system is so much more accurate accounting wise and enjoyable for the host (not dealing with rebuys all night). Trust me, it works and works well.

Additionally, as a back stop, the initial bag should contain all the lower denominations necessary for the night. If someone does rebuy, introduce a new higher denomination chip. That way you can keep track of the rebuys based upon how many hi denomination chips are in circulation.

Ok I just read this bag system. It seems like it works for you so that's great. But I can't for the life of me understand how this is easier or inherently more accurate than simply exchanging equal amounts of cash for chips.

 

[Goldfish]

Ok I just read this bag system. It seems like it works for you so that's great. But I can't for the life of me understand how this is easier or inherently more accurate than simply exchanging equal amounts of cash for chips.

This……
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...ready-learned-the-hard-way.99382/post-2285336

 

[Natskule]

Ok I just read this bag system. It seems like it works for you so that's great. But I can't for the life of me understand how this is easier or inherently more accurate than simply exchanging equal amounts of cash for chips.

The only advantage I saw to the bag system is if the house allows almost constant top offs. I don't do that, it's either up to half the max buy in if you are under half, or up to the max buy in if you are felted. Takes me about 15 seconds to grab 4 to 8 chips and collect the cash.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Ok I just read this bag system. It seems like it works for you so that's great. But I can't for the life of me understand how this is easier or inherently more accurate than simply exchanging equal amounts of cash for chips.

It's more accurate because fewer transactions mean fewer chances of an error.

If there is an error in a traditional chips for cash exchange, you will never know who got over/under paid. In the bag system, you can recount the bag to see if your chip count was right.

I don't use the bag system as I run primarily tournaments, and would need too many bags, but I am intrigued by the concept.

 

[Goldfish]

It's more accurate because fewer transactions mean fewer chances of an error.

If there is an error in a traditional chips for cash exchange, you will never know who got over/under paid. In the bag system, you can recount the bag to see if your chip count was right.

I don't use the bag system as I run primarily tournaments, and would need too many bags, but I am intrigued by the concept.

This, and the fact that fewer transactions means the banker/host is not continuously interrupted/distracted with banking transactions. Also, as I stated earlier, the games I play in generally are too big for cash. It is really easy for the banker/host to forget to write down the rebuy/top off and almost impossible to retrace the transaction at the end of the night when there have been numerous transactions for rebuys of all sizes.

I am certainly not trying to push this system on anyone. I offer this method simply as an option having done banking all different ways when I hosted. This is the way that I prefer.

 

[Nine_high]

It's more accurate because fewer transactions mean fewer chances of an error.

Ok I suppose it's true that fewer transactions means fewer chances for error. But the transactions are not gone they are just consolidated. And with this system it becomes necessary to track each transaction by each player. An error here would not be a few dollars or a fraction of a buy in but rather 2.5 buy ins (or whatever goes into a bag).

Cash for chips it's completely unnecessary to track buy ins at all. And honestly I don't see what's so hard about cutting out chips for a rebuy, it should be all big chips anyway so quick and easy to get each one right.

If there is an error in a traditional chips for cash exchange, you will never know who got over/under paid. In the bag system, you can recount the bag to see if your chip count was right.

This sounds a little apples/oranges to me. At cash out, if there's a discrepancy I can still recount each stack and recount the bank (I've had two bills get stuck together for example). This is no different from recounting the bags.

If there was an error in tracking all the bags, this would be the same as a banking error in cash for chips.

 

[Poker Zombie]

This, and the fact that fewer transactions means the banker/host is not continuously interrupted/distracted with banking transactions.

Since my games are primarily tournaments, my players have become accustomed to breaks. My living room is also very small (once you add in 2 tables) so if one person gets up, they either have to squish by, ask another player to "scooch", or have them get up.

As a result, I have scheduled breaks when I host a cash game as well.

This makes for an excellent time for short stacks to top off (it is also the best time to get a table change). That helps immensely the number of times I need to shift from player to banker mode.

Of course, mileage will vary. As primarily tournament players, we have more "stack preservation" players than "jam with 51% odds players".

 

[Mr Winberg]

Regarding top-ups, with the ledger system I have adopted I have a rule that top-ups must be in increments of 50 SEK (~$5). This rule is a bit unnecessary but I've found that it helps when it's 5am and I'm tired and intoxicated and solving math problems like 273-37 becomes about as achievable as participating in a NAGB from Sweden. For 250-37 at least I have a fighting chance.

If I haven't mentioned it, the main driver for the ledger system is that people in Sweden don't carry cash (whether that's good or bad is a separate discussion). If they did, I would have done cash for chips just like most people here. But cash for chips would be extremely impractical to enforce in Sweden, hence the ledger system.

But anyway, writing up the buy-ins goes really fast, neither noticeably faster nor slower than receiving cash, and X-1 transactions (at most) for X players isn't that bad TBH. So bashing cashless cashgames doesn't make sense IMO.

 

[Nine_high]

Well I'll concede that if you're playing cashless, then you're stuck tracking buy ins no matter what.

When I was running the game in Iraq, cash was a pain in the ass to get on base. But we still ran primarily cash. We did allow players to go on markers though and settle up at the end with venmo or cash next day. I would start someone a marker and write the amount on it and add that slip to the bank. If they bought more I'd cross it off and put the new total. Markers paid out like cash, and of course I'd try to pay a player with his own marker if I could. Otherwise I'd pay markers to the highest winner and then he'd be responsible to collect on his markers.

 

[Mr Winberg]

Well I'll concede that if you're playing cashless, then you're stuck tracking buy ins no matter what.

Yup. The only way to avoid this is by having "transfers for chips", but that would be a pain in the neck.

I would start someone a marker and write the amount on it and add that slip to the bank.

Nice! A distributed ledger system!

 

[Poker Zombie]

Having played both with cash and the Swedish ledger system, I like the ledger better. However, the US government is trying to crack down on "under the table" workers who take welfare while working 6 days a week off the books. As electronic payments become more common, it'll become easier to squash these tax-dodging leeches.

It's unfortunate that they will also catch electronic chip transactions and electronic poker transactions in the same net - but if you make a hole, cheaters will slip through.

 

[doublebooyah85]

Since my games are primarily tournaments, my players have become accustomed to breaks. My living room is also very small (once you add in 2 tables) so if one person gets up, they either have to squish by, ask another player to "scooch", or have them get up.

As a result, I have scheduled breaks when I host a cash game as well.

This makes for an excellent time for short stacks to top off (it is also the best time to get a table change). That helps immensely the number of times I need to shift from player to banker mode.

Of course, mileage will vary. As primarily tournament players, we have more "stack preservation" players than "jam with 51% odds players".

Surprised you do breaks during cash games. Can easily kill a game too…people decide to leave etc