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Poker etiquette (1 Viewer)

Blaster said:
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, however, I will add my two cents regarding the aboves..
Here's a link:
https://justpaste.it/167q3
:
Click to expand...

Hurrah! Someone actually posted some rules for others to consider. Thanks.

As for the other comments: Yeah, at a home game among friends, lots of stuff happens which doesn't happen in a casino. It’s a guys’ poker night, not the World Series.

The culture of home games that I play in tends to evolve steadily upward, and usually toward an ever-better run game—or the game falls apart and people stop coming.

Just posting rules isn’t really the difference-maker, in my experience. It’s the attitude, experience and quality of the players.

When I joined this particular game, it was run in the basement of a guy’s log cabin-style house. The buy-in was $20 with an unlimited $25 rebuy. (Never encountered that before or since.) There was tons of stuff going on which was wildly improper by any measure: Rabbit-hunting, people reading the board out loud (“possible straight!”), players pulling their cards out of the muck to show their neighbor the hand they would have made, etc. If someone had posted rules saying none of that was OK (which it isn’t), it wouldn’t have made much of a difference.

Totally wrong. But it was also a fun game, and a great group of guys, with enough brains to figure it out steadily, and attract other good players. That invariably has led to a better, more “proper” game, but one which is still fun. Trying to legislate that 10 years ago would not have worked; had to happen organically.

And it did happen, and continues to happen. Over the years, as the game through multiple iterations moved up to a $100/no rebuy structure, and moved on no other venues, that dorm room-type stuff has steadily bled out of the game. Once in a very long while somebody will try to rabbit hunt—it’s just human nature—and they get totally barked at. In a humorous, but no nonsense way, the way that people who know and like each other can.

At the end of the day for me, the “good of the game” concept will still take precedence in a sticky situation over being 100% correct in the eyes of a judge in 100% of situations. We can always research it and revisit the topic next time. There always is one.
 
P.S. Shouldn’t there really be a Rules thread? This is still Etiquette, and for the good of the board down the road, seems to me the two should be separate.
 
Taghkanic said:
(C) After all of this, you *still* haven’t specified which rules you prefer and use. I’d love to know, since you have been playing cards for decades.
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I think I posted it twice (RR v11), and I even posted the cover page from my home game rule book. Perhaps if you read as much as you write... just a thought.
But as I stated above You got me, I surrender. You have convinced everyone there is no need for a specific set of rules.
As for my bona fides: You assume much more than you know
 
i love this... i have to update my rules.

thanks for posting BG Doubble Eagle, Jambine

im going to re write some of my rules.

thanks guys
 
I did not see you mention RR11, Jambine, but I have no issue with that choice. If we got stuck, that would already have been my first lookup.

But I’ll argue it one more time: I approach hosting a friendly, long-running home game completely differently than if I were hired in a casino’s poker room.

Among all the countless other differences, there are no complete strangers. People in the game are also friends outside of the game. Any guests or new introductions are friends of these friends. If they are going to last in the game, they are going to also become friends with the rest of the gang.

This takes away 99% of the distrust, suspicion and fear of unfairness or scurrilous activity which people worry about in casinos, or unfamiliar underground games.

It also means that “no harm, no foul” is much more a part of the game as we play it. Keeping things moving and avoiding tedious, needless and ultimately meaningless pedantic arguments is part of our deal. If something was really wrong, and it sticks in someone’s craw, they’ll come back next time with citations and make their case. Then the game will adjust, or not, depending on whether the group agrees with that interpretation. It’s seldom or ever entirely up to me as host.

I look at some situations (like the AKK vs AJ hand above) like a cop who sees someone cross in the middle of the street, and against the light, on a low-traffic block with no cars coming in either direction. The cop could ticket the person for jaywalking. But it’s not in the interest of policing or society. If some other street starts to have multiple accidents with jaywalkers getting hit, the police and society react accordingly.

Responses ought to be proportional, so that is why Roberts et al. stress the good of the game concept.
 
An etiquette question, or maybe this is more in the category of when/whether to tap the glass…

There’s an older lady who is a reg in a private game I attend several times per month. Not sure how elderly, but her age could be as high as 75.

She’s probably been playing poker for 3-5 decades longer than most of the field, but does not seem to have picked up on many standard rules. Or is just still playing by the rules she learned in 1953.

So the other night, for the thousandth time, she blatantly string bet.

Put out four red chips across the line.

Pause.

Put out four more red chips.

Pause.

Put out three more red chips.

Pause.

Slowly noticed the piles of four were uneven, and added one more, for a total of 60.

I’m watching this and decided—having held my tongue so many other times—to blurt out:

“Listen, as far as I’m concerned, that can still be treated as a $60 bet… I’m OK with that. But I just gotta say, in every other room in the world that’s a string bet and should only be 20.”

Pretty much instantly I regretted it, because this player is a big donator to the game, plus she’s probably as old as my mom.

But I just couldn’t take it that time. Glass-tapping mistake? Or something that just needed to be said, in hopes of ending the practice?
 
Taghkanic said:
An etiquette question, or maybe this is more in the category of when/whether to tap the glass…

There’s an older lady who is a reg in a private game I attend several times per month. Not sure how elderly, but her age could be as high as 75.

She’s probably been playing poker for 3-5 decades longer than most of the field, but does not seem to have picked up on many standard rules. Or is just still playing by the rules she learned in 1953.

So the other night, for the thousandth time, she blatantly string bet.

Put out four red chips across the line.

Pause.

Put out four more red chips.

Pause.

Put out three more red chips.

Pause.

Slowly noticed the piles of four were uneven, and added one more, for a total of 60.

I’m watching this and decided—having held my tongue so many other times—to blurt out:

“Listen, as far as I’m concerned, that can still be treated as a $60 bet… I’m OK with that. But I just gotta say, in every other room in the world that’s a string bet and should only be 20.”

Pretty much instantly I regretted it, because this player is a big donator to the game, plus she’s probably as old as my mom.

But I just couldn’t take it that time. Glass-tapping mistake? Or something that just needed to be said, in hopes of ending the practice?
Click to expand...
If you did that, would they call you out?

I think you're fine, but if the locals don't care ...
 
Taghkanic said:
An etiquette question, or maybe this is more in the category of when/whether to tap the glass…

There’s an older lady who is a reg in a private game I attend several times per month. Not sure how elderly, but her age could be as high as 75.

She’s probably been playing poker for 3-5 decades longer than most of the field, but does not seem to have picked up on many standard rules. Or is just still playing by the rules she learned in 1953.

So the other night, for the thousandth time, she blatantly string bet.

Put out four red chips across the line.

Pause.

Put out four more red chips.

Pause.

Put out three more red chips.

Pause.

Slowly noticed the piles of four were uneven, and added one more, for a total of 60.

I’m watching this and decided—having held my tongue so many other times—to blurt out:

“Listen, as far as I’m concerned, that can still be treated as a $60 bet… I’m OK with that. But I just gotta say, in every other room in the world that’s a string bet and should only be 20.”

Pretty much instantly I regretted it, because this player is a big donator to the game, plus she’s probably as old as my mom.

But I just couldn’t take it that time. Glass-tapping mistake? Or something that just needed to be said, in hopes of ending the practice?
Click to expand...
Little bit of glass-tap, sure, but the whole table was thinking it. It won't end the practice, may even slow her pace down more lol, but you're in your right to mention it.

The rule is there to stop angling or possible faulty actions, but if everyone expects her to snail it across the line, no one is acting or emoting before she's done with her sloth-actions.
 
Taghkanic said:
“Listen, as far as I’m concerned, that can still be treated as a $60 bet… I’m OK with that. But I just gotta say, in every other room in the world that’s a string bet and should only be 20.”

Pretty much instantly I regretted it, because this player is a big donator to the game, plus she’s probably as old as my mom.

But I just couldn’t take it that time. Glass-tapping mistake? Or something that just needed to be said, in hopes of ending the practice?
Click to expand...

I don't think it's a mistake to point out the issue. I might go a little gentler and avoid the calling out tone of "that's a string bet" (even though you are 100% right about that) and instead say something more indicative of the correct way to bet/raise like "all chips should go toward the pot in one motion." This way you come off more as looking out for the player than "calling you out" for a mistake. This also gives her the ambiguity to count as she does in front of her stack, instead of doing her counting in the pot, which is really the issue here.

It's a tough spot to say the right thing in the moment, I am always much more brilliant in conversation after the fact.
 
What is the purpose for stirring up the table? Is grandma angle shooting? Does Hero feel damaged, aggrieved, cheated? Was he confused by the old lady's bet? Does he think his concerns are good for the game?

Hero is technically right. The old woman didn't follow the accepted practice about placing a bet. But Hero is practically making a mistake. No useful purpose is achieved by making the point that Hero will accept the action, but she didn't handle her chips in a proper way.

"string bet" violations are almost always assessed against the newest, weakest players. Just the sort of players I want at my table. Why, oh why would anyone think this is a good idea?

Better to keep these sorts of things to yourself. we are here to have a good time -=- DrStrange
 
DrStrange said:
What is the purpose for stirring up the table? Is grandma angle shooting? Does Hero feel damaged, aggrieved, cheated? Was he confused by the old lady's bet? Does he think his concerns are good for the game?
Click to expand...
Even if you set aside all possibility of "grandma angle shooting" string betting is a pace of play issue (ha, stealing baseball speak) since it introduces a ton of ambiguity on when the next player may act. If bets are made in one motion, the next player knows immediately it's his turn to act. If multi-motion bets are allowed, the next player now has to accommodate the possibility of a second, third, or fourth motion (in this case) before acting in turn.

It's not so much about combating slow play. If it takes this lady a while to count her chips in her stack before pushing them toward the pot, I'm going to let that go. It's about combating the ambiguity of when one turn ends and the next turn begins. If she's doing her counting in the pot, and is allowed multiple motions, it's just becomes crazy unclear, and unfair to hold whoever acts next to any expectation of knowing exactly when it's his turn.
 
I called it out because in that moment I lost patience and couldn't take it anymore. (I’ve tried to be Stoic, I really did. I managed to keep quiet in the previous dozen sessions I’ve played with her.) But this has been happening over and over again and I wanted to put an end to it. I also wouldn't want other players to feel that string betting was OK, but I admit my true motivation was just exasperation.

Note: Same player does all kinds of other stuff like this.

For example, when she bets on the river and gets called (or if she is first to act when it checked down on the river) she never turns over her hand unless forced to do so. She waits to see if anyone else goes first, then mucks if she sees a hand that beats her.

When she waits to show her hand, despite being obligated to go first, I feel like it is more out of embarrassment over possibly having led out with worse than trying to get a strategic advantage from not showing. I really don't think she’s sharp enough to consciously angle us—she’s a lame, non-thinking player. It just gets annoying when there are these little violations and slow-downs in almost every hand she plays.
 
Taghkanic said:
For example, when she bets on the river and gets called (or if she is first to act when it checked down on the river) she never turns over her hand unless forced to do so. She waits to see if anyone else goes first, then mucks if she sees a hand that beats her.
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Unfortunately, this behavior is widespread too. Some games I have played in public rooms, I feel no one will show first unless I insist.
 
JustinInMN said:
Unfortunately, this behavior is widespread too. Some games I have played in public rooms, I feel no one will show first unless I insist.
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If I have cards, I prefer to just sit there and not do anything until they either show, or the dealer tells them to. If necessary, I say “I called you.”
 
The core group in our home game all understand basic poker etiquette and protocol. Occasionally, we'll even lightheartedly call out each other, or even ourselves if we make a mistake. We try to kindly correct less experienced players, with an explanation of the "why" of the rule. One lady occasionally comes with her boyfriend, and she'd say things like "I'm all in! Just kidding! I fold." She didn't mean anything by it, she just thought she was being funny. I just explained the why, and that at a casino she'd be required to bet all of her chips. She takes it well, and we move on.
 
When you aren't hosting, it can get a little difficult. Sloppy etiquette builds up over time, and becomes "home rules", which becomes law.

Even in my rather tight run ship, the influx of new players since covid plus my not being at every table has started to create an acceptance for not immediately showing in order, and rabbit hunting (both presented to me by a 3rd party). So it's time to crack back down and bring everyone up to speed.

That being said, I have one player that is in her mid 70s. Sweet as can be, but slower than molasses on a winter's morn'. I've seen her fold a full house because she was afraid it would be beaten a flush. She's played for years, but I think she's at the age where once-easy decisions are getting a little muddled. Yes, it is frustrating when you are on a short stack and it takes her a full minute to make a decision as first to act pre-flop. I could absolutely see her in a year or two counting out chips to bet in an incorrect fashion (like @Taghkanic's villain). In this case, I would very gently remind her that she should bet in one motion, or verbally declare the amount. I wouldn't penalize her though, as rule 9 of the TDA states:

"Accommodations for players with special needs will be made when possible."

I think diminished mental capacity counts here. Be vigilant. Watch to see if she is shooting any angles. But accept that some people do not think as quickly as you do. If they are enjoying the game and the company, and people enjoy her being there (for her money or for her fellowship) then the technical rule can be set aside (for her).

You would do the same for a blind player (allowing 2 players to the hand), or giving a particular seat to someone that needed easier access for mobility reasons.
 
Taghkanic said:
An etiquette question, or maybe this is more in the category of when/whether to tap the glass…

There’s an older lady who is a reg in a private game I attend several times per month. Not sure how elderly, but her age could be as high as 75.

She’s probably been playing poker for 3-5 decades longer than most of the field, but does not seem to have picked up on many standard rules. Or is just still playing by the rules she learned in 1953.

So the other night, for the thousandth time, she blatantly string bet.

Put out four red chips across the line.

Pause.

Put out four more red chips.

Pause.

Put out three more red chips.

Pause.

Slowly noticed the piles of four were uneven, and added one more, for a total of 60.

I’m watching this and decided—having held my tongue so many other times—to blurt out:

“Listen, as far as I’m concerned, that can still be treated as a $60 bet… I’m OK with that. But I just gotta say, in every other room in the world that’s a string bet and should only be 20.”

Pretty much instantly I regretted it, because this player is a big donator to the game, plus she’s probably as old as my mom.

But I just couldn’t take it that time. Glass-tapping mistake? Or something that just needed to be said, in hopes of ending the practice?
Click to expand...
We have one guy, reg, who almost always donates, a lot (lol) - he habitually does quite a few annoying things (e.g. repeatedly asking what the bet was again, tanking, tanking and repeatedly asking what the bet was again, checks/bets out of turn, expresses emotions/minor outbursts upon the reveal of cards, flop/turn/and or river, after he has already folded, and he likes to hold onto his cards after he folds so he can see what he would have ended up with after the river... But, he's really a nice guy - and he donates, a lot (lol)... so we kind of treat his behaviors as peccadilloes...

Tag, if you get along with her, maybe you could try talking to her off to the side? Or, if she has a bunch of issues like our guy, and is what we call NRT (not responding/non-responsive to training) but she is generous with her chips like our guy, I guess just kinda live with it? :D
 
Samuel said:
We have one guy, reg, who almost always donates, a lot (lol) - he habitually does quite a few annoying things (e.g. repeatedly asking what the bet was again, tanking, tanking and repeatedly asking what the bet was again, checks/bets out of turn, expresses emotions/minor outbursts upon the reveal of cards, flop/turn/and or river, after he has already folded, and he likes to hold onto his cards after he folds so he can see what he would have ended up with after the river... But, he's really a nice guy - and he donates, a lot (lol)... so we kind of treat his behaviors as peccadilloes...

Tag, if you get along with her, maybe you could try talking to her off to the side? Or, if she has a bunch of issues like our guy, and is what we call NRT (not responding/non-responsive to training) but she is generous with her chips like our guy, I guess just kinda live with it? :D
Click to expand...

We get along fine. She actually invited me to another game (but I couldn’t make it).

I don’t think she is impaired. She sometimes has some pretty clever retorts if she gets teased… mainly about bizarre ways she plays hands.

I just think she learned the game a long time ago, hasn’t played in enough games where the rules are enforced, and hasn’t been curious to expand her poker horizons.

It’ll be interesting to see if she string bets again. I expect that she won’t.
 
Last edited:
Taghkanic said:
An etiquette question, or maybe this is more in the category of when/whether to tap the glass…

There’s an older lady who is a reg in a private game I attend several times per month. Not sure how elderly, but her age could be as high as 75.

She’s probably been playing poker for 3-5 decades longer than most of the field, but does not seem to have picked up on many standard rules. Or is just still playing by the rules she learned in 1953.

So the other night, for the thousandth time, she blatantly string bet.

Put out four red chips across the line.

Pause.

Put out four more red chips.

Pause.

Put out three more red chips.

Pause.

Slowly noticed the piles of four were uneven, and added one more, for a total of 60.

I’m watching this and decided—having held my tongue so many other times—to blurt out:

“Listen, as far as I’m concerned, that can still be treated as a $60 bet… I’m OK with that. But I just gotta say, in every other room in the world that’s a string bet and should only be 20.”

Pretty much instantly I regretted it, because this player is a big donator to the game, plus she’s probably as old as my mom.

But I just couldn’t take it that time. Glass-tapping mistake? Or something that just needed to be said, in hopes of ending the practice?
Click to expand...
If she’s a producer then yes, this is a huge glass tapping mistake
 
Taghkanic said:
An etiquette question, or maybe this is more in the category of when/whether to tap the glass…

There’s an older lady who is a reg in a private game I attend several times per month. Not sure how elderly, but her age could be as high as 75.

She’s probably been playing poker for 3-5 decades longer than most of the field, but does not seem to have picked up on many standard rules. Or is just still playing by the rules she learned in 1953.

So the other night, for the thousandth time, she blatantly string bet.

Put out four red chips across the line.

Pause.

Put out four more red chips.

Pause.

Put out three more red chips.

Pause.

Slowly noticed the piles of four were uneven, and added one more, for a total of 60.

I’m watching this and decided—having held my tongue so many other times—to blurt out:

“Listen, as far as I’m concerned, that can still be treated as a $60 bet… I’m OK with that. But I just gotta say, in every other room in the world that’s a string bet and should only be 20.”

Pretty much instantly I regretted it, because this player is a big donator to the game, plus she’s probably as old as my mom.

But I just couldn’t take it that time. Glass-tapping mistake? Or something that just needed to be said, in hopes of ending the practice?
Click to expand...
I was at a tournament at a local lodge a few months ago. Low buy-in. I was mid-stacked and went all-in after hitting mid-pair on a dry board against a villain, hoping to get him to fold.

He turned over his cards before betting to get my reaction. He had high pair, beating me. I remained stone cold.

He ended up folding and I mucked my cards.

Part of me was a little miffed on the inside. This was clearly angling. But I let it go. Why? It was a low-stakes game. He was an older gentlemen. We had talked earlier before getting seated at this table and had a pleasant conversation.

The person to my left though? She got mad on my behalf. Kept telling him, "You can't do that!" I kept saying "It's fine. It's fine." But she got up from the table and called over the tourney director. I was mildly mortified.

Out of the three people - myself, the angler, and her - who do you think came off the worst in this situation?

HINT: It wasn't me or the angler.
 
I always thought tapping the glass was about pointing out to bad players how bad they are - how can you call with that? ... what sort of donkey plays XY? etc and not pointing out etiquette no-nos and universal rules.

String betting is a no-no and, as with other important rules, as a newb (in the games I play) you get to do it once and that's it. We always explain why it's not allowed in as friendly a manner as possible but it can't continue regardless of whether the player is a nett donator or not.

fUkBcHi.jpg
 

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