Poll: the new generation of ceramics should have their own section on PCF (4 Viewers)

[PocketAces]

Believe it or not, something good is coming out of the Controversial Opinion thread, so maybe it’s time we vote on this

I kept the question vague on purpose, but for context here I have added a few comments I found useful from this thread

curious to hear how you guys feel about this.

I think PCF should have separate classifieds for ceramic vs clay chips.

Very shortly, will I want eBay to have the same distinction. People will die, chips will be sold and somebody is going to be screwed - even though neither party would be to blame.

Your onto something…Now we have opened the door to fake RHCs/S-crowns, I think there should be an entire section on PCF for this new stuff coming from China. And we should be able to choose wether or not we can’t to see that content, just like the politics section.

Not controversial.

Here's something controversial. I don't think resale of any fake RHC, scrown or MGK chips should be allowed in the classifieds at all. They should only be able to be sold to and made custom for members here to keep.

Sale of stock designs from vendors is fine, as long as the stock designs are not an exact copy of the real thing.

Example: fake scrown Trops = bad, fake MGK Trops: fine

Fake scrown Capital Rooms fine. Fake MGK Capital Rooms bad.

These new ceramic hybrid molded chips can be awesome and a great cheaper alternative for those that don't wish to splurge on clay. Don't fuck this up.

 

[Rieguy]

Believe it or not, something good is coming out of the Controversial Opinion thread

 

[JMC9389]

View attachment 1195346

I ain't your buddy, guy!

 

[RocAFella1]

Separate but equal?

 

[Josh Kifer]

I ain't your buddy, guy!

I ain't you guy, pal!

 

[doublebooyah85]

Not sure these should even be on PCF for liability reasons but here we are on the Silk Road no looking back. Chips r chips.

 

[CraigT78]

Nah, the chip market is dead. No need to segregate.

 

[improviseallday]

The devil's in the details.

• A separate forum to discuss ceramic chips? Sure.
• Prohibiting discussing ceramic chips in the Poker Chip General? Definitely not.
• A tag for ceramic chips in classifieds? Sure.
• Disallowing ceramic chips from selling in the classified forum and setting up a separate forum for selling ceramic chips? Definitely not.

If the idea is about protecting members from buying by mistake, what about relabel replicas?

My humble proposal

• Whoever does not like certain posts can ignore it.
• Whoever wants to create a thread focused on Paulsons and TRK can mention it in the OP.
• We don't need more rules.

 

[JMC9389]

Don't know how to answer the poll question.

Exact ceramic tributes or copies shouldn't be allowed for resale. Would even say exact copies down to the mold used should not be allowed. Even if they are made for personal use, are their kids/grandkids going to know the difference when they sell them on eBay once the original owners pass away? I simply forsee too many problems down the road that made these more problematic than they will be worth.

Before people get the wrong idea, I'm not pissing on the concept overall. I love the feel of the fake scrown samples I've acquired. Keep it to customs though. If tributes of previous sets must absolutely be made, make something different about them. Make the mold different at least.

 

[Santa123]

Its not about ceramics but about counterfeit. Maybe in a year there are china clay chips that copy color, inlay design and molds.

 

[JMC9389]

Its not about ceramics but about counterfeit. Maybe in a year there are china clay chips that copy color, inlay design and molds.

This is also a bit concerning. Joe Schmo finds out about Tina and commissions them to make fake Aria house molds. Have a few hundred made and mix them in with the real thing. How close really are the cashiers going to be looking especially if the chip faces are the exact same?

Worrisome, to say the least.

It will cut one of two ways. Either all casinos go to all digital or cryptocurrency and destroy clay/ceramic chip manufacturing equipment, or they finally relent and make small profits and made a few stock clay/ceramic designs that are sold commercially.

I know what I've got my money on...

 

[improviseallday]

It will cut one of two ways. Either all casinos go to all digital or cryptocurrency and destroy clay/ceramic chip manufacturing equipment, or they finally relent and make small profits and made a few stock clay/ceramic designs that are sold commercially.

They will go the Resorts World way. RFID in all the chips and a database tracking serial numbers.

 

[PocketAces]

I am all for customs. But supporting the distribution of a product on a mold the manufacturer doesn’t own is a step too far, it’s illegal. Don’t try to rationalize it with the argument of costs etc - the card mold achieved the exact same thing - customization at a low price point - and it was an original product.

Put yourself in the shoes of the guys at CPC who run a small business and see a bunch of us using what differentiate their product from the competition on a knock off from China. So that’s what chipping is about now? Pls…
If there is demand for counterfeit goods - and they all happen to be made by one manufacturer, then it should be clearly separated from everything else. Even more so, if we can no longer differentiate what’s right and wrong.

 

[RagingAZN]

There's always going to bad actors when it comes to items of value right. Knockoff chips are no different to knockoff Nikes, Rolexes or Prada bags.

I think @improviseallday has the right idea.

 

[improviseallday]

I am all for customs. But supporting the distribution of a product on a mold the manufacturer doesn’t own is a step too far, it’s illegal. Don’t try to rationalize it with the argument of costs etc - the card mold achieved the exact same thing - customization at a low price point - and it was an original product.

If we're talking about counterfeits, sure, I wouldn't mind some new rules. Still, it's tricky. For example, I don't think any company owns the right to put a Greek mold on a chip.

But the suggested rules in the OP put my custom ceramics with original IP in the same boat as Vegas replicas. That's why I'm not a fan.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

There's always going to bad actors when it comes to items of value right. Knockoff chips are no different to knockoff Nikes, Rolexes or Prada bags.

I think @improviseallday has the right idea.

I’m not approaching from a good/bad right/wrong perspective. I’m not even thinking about misrepresentation of chips in ads. Under the current website software the number of threads that are visible on the first page of the classifieds is limited and often filled with bumps (somebody has something that’s been bumped 73 times since last December). As someone who doesn’t bump more than once before closing a thread down I feel this real estate is increasingly populated by clutter. Most of my threads are wanted listings so visibility to certain members who may not spend all day refreshing is important.

 

[JMC9389]

If we're talking about counterfeits, sure, I wouldn't mind some new rules. Still, it's tricky. For example, I don't think any company owns the right to put a Greek mold on a chip.

But the suggested rules in the OP put my custom ceramics with original IP in the same boat as Vegas replicas. That's why I'm not a fan.

I mean, hey, if GPI wants to file C+D letters for copies of chips on a mold that they've intentionally kept on a shelf out of spite, go ahead.

The scrowns are a whole different story..

 

[LeGold]

supporting the distribution of a product on a mold the manufacturer doesn’t own is a step too far, it’s illegal

That is a step too far? How is it more illegal than products using inlay designs they do not own?

(you're all welcome )

 

[BGinGA]

Only change I would endorse is two-fold:

1. Require that members must prove they passed a bar exam to be granted access to the Politics section, and

2. Use that data to restrict the same said members from the discussion and photo threads that involve copies / tributes / intellectual property theft of designs / artwork / copyrights / trademarks, regardless of material composition, manufacturer, or country of origin.

All the lawyers get dumped into the Politics forum, and all of the legally questionable products (chips, artwork, felts, whatever) get dumped into a forum that the lawyers can't see.

Win-win.

 

[ekricket]

Even if they are made for personal use, are their kids/grandkids going to know the difference when they sell them on eBay once the original owners pass away?

Put yourself in the shoes of the guys at CPC who run a small business and see a bunch of us using what differentiate their product from the competition on a knock off from China.

There's always going to bad actors when it comes to items of value right. Knockoff chips are no different to knockoff Nikes, Rolexes or Prada bags.

If they were grandpas greatest treasure, why does it matter if they are “real” or not?

Per the last two points - the people that buy this shit are the same people that would never buy from CPC. There are some exceptions probably, but most people that would buy from CPC for whatever reason are probably still going to buy from CPC for whatever reason.

 

[PocketAces]

If we're talking about counterfeits, sure, I wouldn't mind some new rules. Still, it's tricky. For example, I don't think any company owns the right to put a Greek mold on a chip.

But the suggested rules in the OP put my custom ceramics with original IP in the same boat as Vegas replicas. That's why I'm not a fan.

I hear you but this is now a medium that allows users to use a counterfeited mold, and potentially use a live Casino inlay design on top (or has it been done already). You might have a very unique set but at some point it becomes impossible to track whatever comes out of that manufacturer so why not separate it from everything else. Clearly I’m in the minority, as the poll suggests!

That is a step too far? How is it more illegal than products using inlay designs they do not own?

(you're all welcome )

First sentence « I am all for customs » (the assumption is you use your own inlay design at least lol or a tribute).

 

[chippitydoodah]

I ain't your buddy, guy!

 

[chippitydoodah]

I ain't you guy, pal!

Who you calling pal, friend

 

[Poker Zombie]

They will go the Resorts World way. RFID in all the chips and a database tracking serial numbers.

What are the chances that every single table would go RFID? It's too easy to pass off replicas at a poker table where opponents cant tell the difference between a ceramic and a clay. The smart counterfeiter doesn't take his fake currency to the bank, he passes it off to the masses and lets them take the risk turning them in.

 

[BGinGA]

They will go the Resorts World way. RFID in all the chips and a database tracking serial numbers.

All the cheats just need to coordinate their efforts with on-going hacking operations. Can't track chips when the software system is down, just ask MGM and Caesars.

the card mold achieved the exact same thing - customization at a low price point - and it was an original product.

LOL, no

The ceramic card mold design, the ceramic diamond mold design, and even the ceramic hybrid design were all original products...... originally developed, marketed, and sold.... by Sun-Fly.

China companies like Tina's stole all three ideas and now grind out cheaper copies of Sun-Fly's products -- aided by using cheaper materials and cheaper labor, and less-restrictive manufacturing regulations,

 

[PocketAces]

All the cheats just need to coordinate their efforts with on-going hacking operations. Can't track chips when the software system is down, just ask MGM and Caesars.


LOL, no

The ceramic card mold design, the ceramic diamond mold design, and even the ceramic hybrid design were all original products...... originally developed, marketed, and sold.... by Sun-Fly.

China companies like Tina's stole all three ideas and now grind out cheaper copies of Sun-Fly's products -- aided by using cheaper materials and cheaper labor, and less-restrictive manufacturing regulations,

Didn’t know! Thanks for the correction (also reinforces my point)

 

[Josh Kifer]

Who you calling pal, friend

I ain't your friend, mister!

 

[chippitydoodah]

China companies like Tina's stole all three ideas and now grind out cheaper copies of Sun-Fly's products -- aided by using cheaper materials and cheaper labor, and less-restrictive manufacturing regulations,

 

[BGinGA]

My biggest concern is that reputable chip makers like CPC, Sun-Fly, and ABC/BRPro stop supporting PCF because it openly embraces unsavory business practices that are detrimental to their intellectual property and bottom line.

 

[JMC9389]

My biggest concern is that reputable chip makers like CPC, Sun-Fly, and ABC/BRPro stop supporting PCF because it openly embraces unsavory business practices that are detrimental to their intellectual property and bottom line.

Precisely why I have such a problem with the faux scrown mold chips.

GPI can go fly a kite re: the MGK mold, however.