Reason(s) for Dropping a Home Game (1 Viewer)

[Papasatyr]

Hate to point this out, but in most jurisdictions in the US, you can't take a rake either unless you have a gaming license.

California, like with most things, is weird. A card room cannot take a percentage rake. Instead they take a flat fee per hand, or time-based fee for a seat at the table.

 

[warma]

You indicated there were over 20 folks playing at one point and it was fun. Could you get another fun game going with those folks, even if you don’t host it?

 

[JustinInMN]

As for the structure of the rake itself, just taking a flat hunk from the tournament obviously breaks down when the player pool gets small. 75 from 23 players is a little more than 5 per player. That's pretty workable for a 50 buy in. When down to 6 players even 50 from the pool is over 8 per player, that's certainly less appealing.

If he just took 5 per entry the whole time, he probably would have had the motivation to deal with the issue of the undesirable players as soon as he saw it was hitting his bottom line. Instead, that problem festered until he knew he would be forced to drop his take.

And again, don't rake the game if you are that concerned about facing legal consequences.

 

[JustinInMN]

California, like with most things, is weird. A card room cannot take a percentage rake. Instead they take a flat fee per hand, or time-based fee for a seat at the table.

That's true, I had heard that, they are all time-charge rooms I suppose. Are tournament fees okay I assume?

 

[Schmendr1ck]

I play with a weekly tourney group that has been going for over a decade. We're playing online now, but when live it's usually hosted by another guy in the group. It's a $20 game, usually 8-12 players, no rake, no food, no drink beyond what we bring and share. From a strict poker perspective, it's barely worth my time, but I love the game and still play it regularly. The people in the group are friends, I've known many of them for years, and it's a fun night out that happens to include poker.

When I host, it's always a cash game and usually runs once every 4-6 weeks. I open my bar and provide beer and snacks, some players will bring drinks to share, and sometimes an additional snack or two will show up as well. I never rake. Sometimes players will round down their cashouts a couple bucks to leave me a tip, and I always appreciate the gesture though it never makes more than a small dent in my hosting expenses. I don't care - I'm hosting because I enjoy it, and I'm not looking for reimbursement.

That said, I'm not opposed to playing in a raked home game as long as I'm getting some benefit. At that point for me, it goes from a social event to an earning event, because if the host is taking money off the table, there'd better be an offsetting financial incentive for me to play in that game - mainly, lots of bad, deep-pocketed players. "Free" food is nice, but I can eat before I come to the game and save a lot of cash, thanks.

 

[Papasatyr]

That's true, I had heard that, they are all time-charge rooms I suppose. Are tournament fees okay I assume?

Yes. Tourneys are typically/always flat fee.

 

[CraigT78]

mainly, lots of bad, deep-pocketed players

You know I host, right??

 

[chicubs1988]

That home game sounds pretty bad. Hell, it doesn't even sound like much of a home game, but rather a poorly run "underground" game. The host doesn't seem to be offering anything in return for the rake, and the way he has run the game seems to make it clear that he's more concerned with getting the raked cash than running a decent game. A quick google of your State's poker laws show that social home games are considered legal, so I think it's telling that he'd rather deal with the aggressive drunk/dope fiend couple rather than kick them out and have a quality, unraked, atmosphere for friends to play in.

 

[liftapint]

(Disclaimer: Chips are not Paulson's)

 

[WhiteMamba1646]

Yea sounds like you need a new game or start your own. I dont take a rake at my house but i leave a tip jar out for those who want to donate to the drinks/snacks/propane fund and it seems to work itself out. If he’s taking a rake he should have a nice table nice chips and offer some sort of food and beverage to make it appealing to those who attend. But to each their own. With no rake ill never worry about my game being shut down. Its peace of mind for me.

 

[GenghisKhan]

Like someone else said, I say help the host reach out to everyone to see what it'd take to get everyone back and keep current players too.

Once a year I officially reach out and ask if there's any improvements or changes needed. Then the group as a whole votes on it.

As host I'd explain the logic behind current rule, and logic behind the new proposed change, but I would not have a vote myself.

So far this has kept my group intact, and we evolve a tiny bit too.

If host is uncooperative and does not want to change his rules (like the rake) then take over the game if that is an option for you.

I love hosting, do not rake, always have beer in the fridge. But once in a while a player drops off a case of beer to help out. At one point we had a rule that the tourney winner would pay beer or food next game. That was fun and might make a return.

I'd rather that than a tip jar.
You never know how a tip jar could be "interpreted in a court of law".

And my wife works for the police, I've had the deputy chief of police as a regular, policemen, sheriffs. They all say everything's fine but I still refuse to take chances when it comes to the house getting even a penny.

The last thing I need is the federal government saying they have a new interpretation to an old law.

 

[Meddler2]

I've dropped a few games. Mostly because shitty rules, but also because of equipment. For me, the people attending and the structure of the game are most important, with the quality of equipment a close third.

The rake doesn't bother me, I charge one as well. I'd be fine offering all that I do for free, but the head of gaming doesn't want me dropping $300/mo on beer, bourbon and food. She makes the rules!

If I were you, and I was able - I'd take over this player pool and start hostingy own game. That or I'd partner with someone who had the space to do so. There are enough hosts on this site, you'd have a wealth of knowledge to draw from.


Good luck!

Exactly. But why not kill the rake and make it a BYOB/food. Also has anybody spoken to the host and other players to discuss ways to improve this game?

Minus 2020, I've been co-hosting weekly cash games since 2000 and the only thing that slowed our game has been covid. If rules or limits etc. ever became an issue, we openly discussed as a group and made decisions accordingly.
Granted we only play with top tier chips and custom tables; so even if the game sucks, at least we can fondle clay goodness and rest out old bones on padded armrests.
My volunteer staff

 

[Budha]

He wouldn't have to worry about the game getting reported if he wasn't taking a rake.

View attachment 673146

Exactly- lol.

 

[CraigT78]

But why not kill the rake and make it a BYOB/food

This is why:

My guys don't want to show up with their own beer/bourbon. They prefer to show up, drop $20 in the box. I've asked them.

 

[JScott]

If there would ever be a game that I wouldn't feel remorse about poaching, it would be that one.

Why not host yourself? You and the other players are getting no value from this guy hosting. No chips, table, player management etc. Even seems like the game is being run by the players. I played ONE TIME in a game like that and never went back, it was then that I realized I don't really love poker, I love playing it with my friends.

Take it over, use your chips, drop the rake. win win. And F**k that other guy. $75 rake for nothing? bah

 

[Rhodeman77]

This is why:
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View attachment 673375

My guys don't want to show up with their own beer/bourbon. They prefer to show up, drop $20 in the box. I've asked them.

every game is different, but if the players are used to a casino type game already this is a great solution.

much like Craig’s players mine like to show up and play. They don’t want to have to stop for food, beer, and some of them even the ATM. Which is fine by me. If they are happy and comfortable the better the game will be.

 

[Meddler2]

This is why:
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View attachment 673375

My guys don't want to show up with their own beer/bourbon. They prefer to show up, drop $20 in the box. I've asked them.

Oops sorry, my question was for the OP as it didn't sound like the host was providing anything but shitty chips.
Your setup is well...epic to say the least. I'd happily pay beverage $20 fee but only for a casual game where I didn't care about winning/losing. There's enough variance and poor play in our game we mostly stopped drinking alcohol.

 

[Budha]

As has already been said, I think this is an easy decision. I have a couple of thoughts on raked games.
1. It better offer something I can’t find in a non-raked game.

2. If the purpose of a rake is for the “house” to make profit, then I have an issue with the host playing in the raked game(s). If your in it as a side hustle, then host and make your $$, but you don’t get to take a rake AND sit at the table. Just sounds like a recipe for big issues.

3. If the “rake” is simply to cover hosting costs (food, beverages, etc) then I don’t really consider it a rake. Make it a flat/fixed amount, collect it in any fashion you want in the least complicated manner. Buy in is $60 + $10 or whatever. Just don’t put out a bowl of pretzels for the $10 fee - lol.

Edit - a flat fee or a collection jar or however you want to structure it. I tend to agree with previous posts - I would enthusiastically contribute to support good host who provides a nice spread and set up. Again, I see that as helping cover costs and being a good guest. Very different then a “raked” game IMO.

 

[mashoo]

This is why:
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View attachment 673375

My guys don't want to show up with their own beer/bourbon. They prefer to show up, drop $20 in the box. I've asked them.

Beer on tap and a nice selection of hard liquor? I probably just give $100 for an ounce of everything lol

 

[Schmendr1ck]

This is why:
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View attachment 673375

My guys don't want to show up with their own beer/bourbon. They prefer to show up, drop $20 in the box. I've asked them.

Yeah, I realized after my last post that I might have sounded a little judgy, and I didn't mean to come across that way.

When I said something like "it becomes financial if I play in a raked game," I was thinking mainly about the private 1/2 games around here that charge the standard 10%/$5 max per hand rake (and often have dealers that need to be tipped too). Yeah, your free food and booze is nice but I'm really paying $100+ per session for it.

In this case, if I could show up at your place, throw $20-30 bucks at you and get the spread that you put out, I'm there every single week with a smile on my face.

 

[JustinInMN]

Yeah, your free food and booze is nice but I'm really paying $100+ per session for it.

That is the truth about rake. I figure in a $5-max-drop game, every player's share probably averages out to $15/hr or so.

 

[upNdown]

I want to try Alaska Amber!

Edit:
And I don’t know what all the hubbub about “there better be value added to the game because of the rake” is about. One of the reasons I stopped hosting a couple of years ago was because I was having a hard time getting more than 3 or 4 people to show up. If this guy actually had 22 people there for a tournament, there’s the value right there.
And by the way, though my ideal game is 8-max, having 16 people in MY house would not be twice as good. To me, there’s value added right there - nobody in my house. No cars lining the streets, annoying the neighbors. No crowds going outside to smoke weed, further annoying the neighbors.
If a game is profitable to me, why should I care if it’s profitable to the host too?

 

[Jake14mw]

Alaska Amber is good stuff!

 

[JustinInMN]

If this guy actually had 22 people there for a tournament, there’s the value right there.

That's a good point, but I think goes along with the notion I floated that the rake should be per player, not a flat fee that would have widely varying impact on the prize pool.

If a game is profitable to me, why should I care if it’s profitable to the host too?

I would agree with this as well. It's more a question of if the host is putting no more effort than another that is putting on an unraked game, why pay the rake? Always about options.

 

[JScott]

I want to try Alaska Amber!

Edit:
And I don’t know what all the hubbub about “there better be value added to the game because of the rake” is about. One of the reasons I stopped hosting a couple of years ago was because I was having a hard time getting more than 3 or 4 people to show up. If this guy actually had 22 people there for a tournament, there’s the value right there.
And by the way, though my ideal game is 8-max, having 16 people in MY house would not be twice as good. To me, there’s value added right there - nobody in my house. No cars lining the streets, annoying the neighbors. No crowds going outside to smoke weed, further annoying the neighbors.
If a game is profitable to me, why should I care if it’s profitable to the host too?

Having players and having “quality” players are two different things.

Just having a regular game isn’t worth the other issues imo. But then again, i never have an issue finding players, but don’t consider any more than 8 guys better in any way. I prefer smaller games, you guys might be different.

 

[warma]

This is why:
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View attachment 673375

My guys don't want to show up with their own beer/bourbon. They prefer to show up, drop $20 in the box. I've asked them.

That’s not a rake, it’s a food & beverage fee.

 

[CraigT78]

I want to try Alaska Amber!

Alaska Amber is good stuff!

I've just tapped the keg - come on over - we will throw some cards.

 

[CraigT78]

That’s not a rake, it’s a food & beverage fee.

Exactly. I just tapped two kegs. It was $261 for them both. If I hosted here and there, I wouldn't think twice - but over the course of the year I'll spend $3,200 on beer alone.

 

[JustinInMN]

That’s not a rake, it’s a food & beverage fee.

Well I would agree with this, but sometimes prosecutors have bad ideas.

 

[Saoliver]

I'll spend $3,200 on beer alone.

This is very disappointing. I expected more of you...or I guess, your players.