That's just beer! It does not include Bourbon/Scotch, cigars, and premium (not a sandwich) hot dogs!This is very disappointing. I expected more of you...or I guess, your players.
That's just beer! It does not include Bourbon/Scotch, cigars, and premium (not a sandwich) hot dogs!This is very disappointing. I expected more of you...or I guess, your players.
All fair points - I guess my perspective is that if a hosts feels its that inconvenient to host, then don’t host. If they are hosting just for the money, then HOST - lol.I want to try Alaska Amber!
Edit:
And I don’t know what all the hubbub about “there better be value added to the game because of the rake” is about. One of the reasons I stopped hosting a couple of years ago was because I was having a hard time getting more than 3 or 4 people to show up. If this guy actually had 22 people there for a tournament, there’s the value right there.
And by the way, though my ideal game is 8-max, having 16 people in MY house would not be twice as good. To me, there’s value added right there - nobody in my house. No cars lining the streets, annoying the neighbors. No crowds going outside to smoke weed, further annoying the neighbors.
If a game is profitable to me, why should I care if it’s profitable to the host too?
YMMV, but I've got three legal cardrooms within a one hour drive, so it would be silly for me to go to a raked, no-value-added house game.And I don’t know what all the hubbub about “there better be value added to the game because of the rake” is about. One of the reasons I stopped hosting a couple of years ago was because I was having a hard time getting more than 3 or 4 people to show up. If this guy actually had 22 people there for a tournament, there’s the value right there.
Yeah, that's steep. I probably spend $50-100 per game, 8-9 times a year, so it's a lot easier to just not worry about it. It just comes out of my profit.Exactly. I just tapped two kegs. It was $261 for them both. If I hosted here and there, I wouldn't think twice - but over the course of the year I'll spend $3,200 on beer alone.
If I find a way to move closeby, can I count on an invite? Poker AND great food?? Sign me up.From my November game...
View attachment 673254
View attachment 673255
UDSA Primals.
View attachment 673256
Rake collected = $0
However, virtually nobody shows up empty-handed anymore. It might be chips, a home-made dessert, or an expertly crafted side, but friends won't take advantage of your generosity. We usually eat for close to a week on the leftovers, so I guess our rake is food.
You could have everyone bet $20 and then fold to your amazingWell I would agree with this, but sometimes prosecutors have bad ideas.
From my November game...
View attachment 673254
View attachment 673255
UDSA Primals.
View attachment 673256
Rake collected = $0
However, virtually nobody shows up empty-handed anymore. It might be chips, a home-made dessert, or an expertly crafted side, but friends won't take advantage of your generosity. We usually eat for close to a week on the leftovers, so I guess our rake is food.
Very well said. I've been hosting for the past 6 months once my basement was finished. I have refused multiple attempts to pay me for food and beverage. I host because I love to do it. I provide all the food and drink and if someone wants to bring something, so be it. Raking a game feels dirty to me. I would have found a new game a long time ago.I'm going to echo the comments above but am also going to add some more on top. It's the end of my night and I'm feeling rather wordy right now so I apologize for that....
I think more than COVID killed this particular game... the host did. Must be nice as host to know you are going to come out up on the night regardless of how you play.
I've hosted for nearly 15 years now and have never taken a dime for anything. Even if my game were much more than the weekly "beer and bullshit" session, beyond the possible legal ramifications * of taking money above what is won (or lost) in the game itself, I'd feel kind of squidgy asking for money as host.
I've always had the policy of "BYOB, for yourself or to share". I've hosted the game providing beer verticals or 'martini' nights, but have also received well beyond what I have given in return from what others have brought in consumables, including gaining some lifelong friends. I have one regular who "uses" poker night to share the amazing beers he is able to get his hands on. I'm certain he's spent a lot more money on the beers he brings, but he's always great to have at the game because he's "good people" and everyone likes him as a good person to be around. My point is my game is a social event with some rather competitive low-stakes poker as the anchor. I don't host to make money off of hosting alone.
A home game that takes a rake (and that is what you are describing) just seems like a game I'm not sure I'd want to be part of unless the benefits provided were pretty good... and even then I'd still tread carefully. It just feels funny to me, even beyond the dice chips and felt on a kitchen table.
The host of a game does so because they enjoy the game and want to make it enjoyable for others and themself, not to make money solely because because they host. (making profit *in* the game is a different story).
* Many moons ago, before the state gaming laws allowed no-limit poker at the tribal casinos here, there was a smaller poker room that had opened that charged a monthly membership fee to join the "club" and spread 1-2, 1-3 and 2-5 NLHE across maybe a half-dozen tables. It wasn't in some back alley, but a smaller storefront on a major thoroughfare in town. Clearly they weren't shy about what they were doing, but also not super overt about it. A couple of months after opening, they were shut down because they *technically* violated the state gaming laws by charging that fee. I'm unsure of the gaming laws in Maine, but it's entirely possible the host of the game you go to could be violating the state gaming laws by taking this out of the entry fees! I'm not a lawyer, nor do I have one in my immediate or extended family so don't take this as proper legal advice, but being a participant in this game could get you in trouble for participating. Short story and short answer (and seems to be the same as the posts above) is I'd take a big step away and let this particular game die it's own slow death.
Let me go on record and say that if I could play a weekly tournament with 20+ players that was a well-run, decent structure, I’d happily pay a 10% rake, whether there were shit chips or not.
For me, a rake is just another factor. I don’t care what I’m getting for it. Overall, is the game a good game or not?
The "host" in the OP owns the property, a two story home that he converted into four apartments and a small efficiency. There is plenty of parking. He plays in about 70% of the tournaments and rarely hangs around for the cash game. The only thing he provides is a semi finished heated basement, the poker tables, and a mini refrigerator for beverages.
The $75 hosting fee goes toward plowing and heat. ($3900 a year easily covers those costs)
I’m with you on this 100%. @Mojo1312 you either like this game or you don’t. I think you want to leave it as much as you’re defending it. No ones judging you for going for 17 years, but I don’t think the rake is justified either.Okay, so he's a landlord renting 4 apartments and setting up in the basement that isn't part of the actual rental space. Actually, pretty neat idea.
Cynically, why are the costs the players' responsibility? He's has to provide that to his tenants whether or not there are games in the basement. My players do not cause me to turn the thermostat up when they play. If anything, more warm bodies probably slows the calls to the furnace down.
My players are nice, but I don't expect them to plow my driveway for me in winter. That's on me and just a basic courtesy I owe visitors to my house.
I mean, I don't oppose raked games on philosophical grounds, but if I am picking between a raked and an unraked game, the raked game better offer more. So in terms of the original post, if you are feeling guilty for not liking this game anymore, I think you have been given many good reasons to dislike the game. And honestly, disliking a game for the sake of disliking it is a good enough reason itself. It's your time and money, spend it however you want.
It is fair to say, that any established chipper that I do not have on my blocked list has a standing invite.If I find a way to move closeby, can I count on an invite? Poker AND great food?? Sign me up.
Isn't this one of the biggest problems of a raked game? Fish are already -EV, but the rake hurts them even more.I played in a game that we had to pay the host $20 each every week. The money was to cover the inconvenience of having to set up his table and chairs. At first I thought it covered the food and drinks that were provided so no big deal. Food was always good. I later came to find out that the Bad Beat drop ($3/hand) paid for the food and drinks each week.
The game was so soft and the host was one of the biggest fish in the game that I happily paid the extra $20.
If the game was tougher, I may have looked for a different game that didn’t have the $20 rake. As long as the game is profitable/fun play it, once it isn’t move on.
The above game I played in broke up when the biggest fish stopped playing and the host realized he was the Big Fish now.
Isn't this one of the biggest problems of a raked game? Fish are already -EV, but the rake hurts them even more.
The fish play poker like a slot-machine player. It is a -EV venture, but they "win" often enough that they forget they are losing more than they win. Take a rake, and the fish win less, increasing their thoughts that the game is unbeatable.
In Mojo's example, that doesn't really apply as much, as the players have been around for 17 years. However, as friends, you should be able to simply tell the host "Look, I'm not attending if you have d-bags invited - I don't consider them friends. Also, I'll help you out for hosting, but $X is my limit."
I'm doing the same thing for $80 next week.Hey guys! I'm hosting a game next week at my place. Tournament with $100 buy-in. $100 fee (split amongst all of you attending). Dice chips. Piece of felt draped over my dining room table. No food and no drinks provided. Cash game for maybe an hour max after tournament (I'll play in the cash game if I place in the tournament...maybe). Sign up now before it fills up!
I use the Uber Eats model:I'm doing the same thing for $80 next week.
Da Faq?later came to find out that the Bad Beat drop ($3/hand) paid for the food and drinks each week.
The bad beat is that it’s a rake.Da Faq?
How's that work? $2 to BBJP and $1 to host?
Right. How can you say bad beat drop if it's not all going to the prize pool. Admin fees?The bad beat is that it’s a rake.
If it's a house game, you can say whatever you want.Right. How can you say bad beat drop if it's not all going to the prize pool. Admin fees?
Da Faq?
How's that work? $2 to BBJP and $1 to host?
What the hell!!! This thread ran strong for exactly 2 days, then abruptly died!
@Mojo1312 what was the resolution? Did you stay, quit, poach, or convince the host to upgrade his game? Curious minds want to know! At least this one does.
Sounds like you found a decent game, and one where the modest rake is proportionate to the game and actually funds something meaningful.Based upon history, my belief is the host lacks the leadership required to breathe life back into the game. I have moved on. There is a $2/$5 Hold-em home game an hour from where I live, which is a little outside of my bankroll. I pondered my lot for the better part of a week before confronting reality. I am an addict., a shameless junkie with no hope of recovery. I can't handle being away from the card table for long spells. Bad things will happen.
After acknowledging my pathetic lack of willpower and self discipline, I picked up the phone and called the one player I know who is a regular at the $2/$5 game. He gave me the cell phone number of the host. Wasting no time, I gave him a call and left a message identifying myself.
"Hello Dave, this is Mojo. My friends call me E-Z Money. Jimmy gave me your number. I am a donkey in search of a card game. My number is xxx-xxx-1593. Please return my call if you have a seat available."
To my surprise, he called and informed me that they changed the blinds to $1/$2, minimum buy-in $100, max buy-in $300, $500 after 9PM. Game runs from 6PM to 11:30PM, sometimes midnight. There is a $10 mandatory seat fee. The host provides a home cooked meal, usually steak and pasta with a vegetable. No hot dog sandwiches.
His game is thriving. All ten seats are locked up this week. I am second on the wait list. Preference is giving to the regulars, but I expect he will work hard at finding a seat for Mr. E-Z Money next week. Hopefully, Jimmy won't blow my cover.