split spots on Diamond Square mold from CPC? (1 Viewer)

[David Spragg]

If we are gonna talk about how this thread runs us the wrong way I would like to join. Perhaps I'm reading into it wrong as well?



I emailed you way before this thread ever popped up and you brushed me off.



I can't edit my original post in this thread and it was about six months to a year after I posted that I received the replacement chips. I posted that you had made it right once this thread got bumped up so I could let any future party aware that I am now good to go. I have not mentioned the issues anywhere else on the site. What else am I supposed to do here?

And before you come back with "I wasn't talking about you" who the hell are you talking about then?

These blanket statements on how I or we went about this the wrong way piss me off. I didn't do anything wrong David.

You want to go on and on about the business you lost out on. That sucks but it's not our fault quit making it out like it is.

I'm fucking irritated. I have more sets I'd like to do but I'm not sure I can meet your expectations as a customer.

I wasn't referring to you at any point.
I commented on whoever it was (and I don't know who it was) that directed the potential customer to the OP of this entire thread (which is not you).
5 or 6 orders were fixed at the time of this thread. The comment that most people never came back to comment after receiving replacements is true. The 'most' doesn't include you or the OP. The OP has now kindly gone back to edit the original post. That said, your post today was the first time the remake of your chips was acknowledged here so I can understand that anyone who read even the entire thread early this morning would believe it was unresolved.

To me at least, the fact you can't view each post and it's direct replies in one place, and the fact the oldest post comes first, makes it more difficult to follow properly. So yes, I find it hard to navigate, and as a result I miss a whole lot of things. None of that is your fault either.

So, FWIW, here is a copy and paste from the email I received earlier today.
"I was about to go ahead and pull the trigger but thought I'd ask one of the PCF guys who helped me with my design a couple of questions.
He told me to simply read the first post in this thread https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/split-spots-on-diamond-square-mold-from-cpc.68741/
and told me it was never resolved. I read through the first couple of pages and decided I would cut my losses and put my money towards some Paulson's instead. Sorry to say but I won't be ordering any CPC customs now or in the future"

 

[chipinla]

View attachment 976883

@Himewad how many dealer buttons will you need? Haha

 

[chipinla]

I'm the really sexy one....

He’s on the right then clearly

 

[chipinla]

In all seriousness, it's sad reading about bad experiences simply because I've had nothing but positive experiences with @David Spragg and his team in my year and a half CPC journey.

When I did my first set for Andy & Red's Casino cruises I had a million questions that he always responded to promptly. When I did my 2nd set for Cantura Cantina it was the same and David even helped me clean up my inlay to make sure it was good for printing. And I'm sure that my next set for Biff Tannen's Pleasure Paradise that'll be produced in a few weeks has caused David many headaches with my countless changes to edge spots and quantities.

Again, for being in a different part of the world he always responds promptly at all times of the day.

5 stars on Yelp from me! Thanks @David Spragg

 

[khp]

Hi @David Spragg I didn’t direct anyone to any post, but I was contemplating making a CPC set and was researching the molds and trying to uncover the known … let’s call them imperfections…that various molds were prone to have. I found a few such posts and wanted to ask the community to leave no stone unturned.

It’s probably best to ask you directly - are there some molds more prone to mistakes? Or are mistakes simply freak accidents that somehow make it through QC?

Secondly, these quotes worry me a bit. Rather than jump to a conclusion, could I please hear your side of the story?

I also did contact David before ever posting here and did not receive the same response at that time. I was told replacement chips could not be made. It seems this thread got that to happen.

I emailed you way before this thread ever popped up and you brushed me off.

 

[Coyote]

I can only testify that David's customer service has always been stellar

And just to defuse all this with some irrelevant humorous clause, so everybody has a good time, I 'll say f*ck you @Josh Kifer

 

[David Spragg]

Hi @David Spragg I didn’t direct anyone to any post, but I was contemplating making a CPC set and was researching the molds and trying to uncover the known … let’s call them imperfections…that various molds were prone to have. I found a few such posts and wanted to ask the community to leave no stone unturned.

It’s probably best to ask you directly - are there some molds more prone to mistakes? Or are mistakes simply freak accidents that somehow make it through QC?

Secondly, these quotes worry me a bit. Rather than jump to a conclusion, could I please hear your side of the story?

I wouldn't describe them as 'mistakes'. Certain imperfections occur because some of the molds and equipment are 70 years old now and not adjustable in any way. So in general those that have been far more heavily used than others (DSQ, HCE, Crowns) are always likely to have more imperfections than newer molds with less wear. Factors like spots and colors have an impact also, but it is way too much to explain here. There are literally hundreds of threads on this forum on the subject but if you need help on how to search for them you'll have to ask someone else I'm afraid as I have no luck whatsoever finding anything.
That said, if you look at the pricing structure for the molds (ignoring the 44mm) it's probably a fair reflection of consistency of finished chips. Those molds priced higher have a far slower production rate mainly because of the number of rejects. With DSQ for example, as many as 2/3 of the chips are rejected! Hence they have to be more expensive.

Regarding the second comment, if you figure out a way to follow the discussion properly in this and other threads you'll see that these imperfections were nothing new, they had just become a bit more frequent for various reasons (including raw material issues during the pandemic) and up until the time this thread started we literally did not have a fix. So at the time I responded to those first two customers it's true there was nothing we could do.
A lot of changes were made to the way the clay was mixed, it's thickness, the dimensions of our initial slugs and temperatures used in an effort to counteract the changes in materials. It took until some time after this thread started for us to identify the exact issues and make some improvements, the story of which I provided here, and we were eventually able to solve the issues of those two customers and several others.

 

[David Spragg]

Hi @David Spragg I didn’t direct anyone to any post, but I was contemplating making a CPC set and was researching the molds and trying to uncover the known … let’s call them imperfections…that various molds were prone to have. I found a few such posts and wanted to ask the community to leave no stone unturned.

It’s probably best to ask you directly - are there some molds more prone to mistakes? Or are mistakes simply freak accidents that somehow make it through QC?

Secondly, these quotes worry me a bit. Rather than jump to a conclusion, could I please hear your side of the story?

PS - I don't think it was anyone in this thread that directed the potential customer here. Unfortunately the way these posts read makes it look as though any comment is directed at the person that made the previous post. I was merely making a couple of general observations having been alerted to this thread (which hadn't had a post for 16 months prior to today) again.

 

[megarises]

Everybody has their own individual experiences so I can only speak for mine. I’ve had nothing but positive interactions with David and wouldn’t hesitate to order future sets from CPC. I found his customer service to be next level when I was building my Aussie Nights set.

 

[chipinla]

I can only testify that David's customer service has always been stellar

And just to defuse all this with some irrelevant humorous clause, so everybody has a good time, I 'll say f*ck you @Josh Kifer

 

[krafticus]

Well, I have plans for 2 huge sets. Unfortunately, my games are larger and require lots of chips, and my budget is very tight. Once I can free that up, I have no hesitation to order those sets

 

[David Spragg]

In all seriousness, it's sad reading about bad experiences simply because I've had nothing but positive experiences with @David Spragg and his team in my year and a half CPC journey.

When I did my first set for Andy & Red's Casino cruises I had a million questions that he always responded to promptly. When I did my 2nd set for Cantura Cantina it was the same and David even helped me clean up my inlay to make sure it was good for printing. And I'm sure that my next set for Biff Tannen's Pleasure Paradise that'll be produced in a few weeks has caused David many headaches with my countless changes to edge spots and quantities.

Again, for being in a different part of the world he always responds promptly at all times of the day.

5 stars on Yelp from me! Thanks @David Spragg

I guess I'm as guilty as anyone else on this matter but how often do you go on google or amazon or trip adviser etc. to leave a positive review? Almost everyone that has a problem leaves a negative review but I guess only 1 in 10 satisfied customers bothers to post.

So case in point - yes there have been maybe 8 orders with issues since resolved over the past 2 years. Half a dozen of those people are in this thread. There are also a dozen or so positive comments from those who have received their orders in that same time frame. During that time frame we made 250-300 custom orders.

 

[chipinla]

I guess I'm as guilty as anyone else on this matter but how often do you go on google or amazon or trip adviser etc. to leave a positive review? Almost everyone that has a problem leaves a negative review but I guess only 1 in 10 satisfied customers bothers to post.

So case in point - yes there have been maybe 8 orders with issues since resolved over the past 2 years. Half a dozen of those people are in this thread. There are also a dozen or so positive comments from those who have received their orders in that same time frame. During that time frame we made 250-300 custom orders.

Society has become mostly negative. When you have good experience you tell one person, when you have a bad experience you tell ten. It’s the crab mentality.

 

[Eloe2000]

I guess I'm as guilty as anyone else on this matter but how often do you go on google or amazon or trip adviser etc. to leave a positive review? Almost everyone that has a problem leaves a negative review but I guess only 1 in 10 satisfied customers bothers to post.

So case in point - yes there have been maybe 8 orders with issues since resolved over the past 2 years. Half a dozen of those people are in this thread. There are also a dozen or so positive comments from those who have received their orders in that same time frame. During that time frame we made 250-300 custom orders.

For the record I ordered two full sets not long after this original post was made. Both sets I ordered primarily have DG colors as base colors many of which have weighted colors as spots. You proactively communicated about potential split spot issues and offered ways in which I could change my designs to minimize those chances, which I appreciated. I appreciated that communication and was willing to accept split spots. However I was delivered two complete sets with no splits spots at all on the quantity of chips I ordered (~2,000 chips) and plenty of extras, of which a couple minor squashed/splits spot chips were included as a bonus. I was incredibly happy and will be ordering an add-on this week and another set before the end of the year. A+ on product and service.

I am a small business owner and appreciate the importance of positive reviews. Other than positive comments about CPC here publicly on PCF is there some place where online reviews are helpful to CPC?

 

[allforcharity]

I've never been one to view split spots as a problem. "It’s not a bug, it's a feature!"

 

[Kensco]

... Certain imperfections occur because some of the molds and equipment are 70 years old now and not adjustable in any way. So in general those that have been far more heavily used than others (DSQ, HCE, Crowns) are always likely to have more imperfections than newer molds with less wear...

Asking in the thread to benefit others who may be as slow on the uptake as I am. I looked at the list on your site and I still can't figure it out :

Which mold is "HCE"?

Thanks

 

[CrazyEddie]

Asking in the thread to benefit others who may be as slow on the uptake as I am. I looked at the list on your site and I still can't figure it out :

Which mold is "HCE"?

Thanks

aka "H-Mold". HCE stands for H.C. Edwards, who distributed chips made using the mold.

You can see all the molds CPC uses here: http://www.pokerchipsonline.com/pokerchips/realclay/molddesigns.htm

 

[Kensco]

aka "H-Mold". HCE stands for H.C. Edwards, who distributed chips made using the mold.

View attachment 977124

You can see all the molds CPC uses here: http://www.pokerchipsonline.com/pokerchips/realclay/molddesigns.htm

Thank you, I completely missed that!

 

[RainmanTrail]

I wasn't referring to you at any point.
I commented on whoever it was (and I don't know who it was) that directed the potential customer to the OP of this entire thread (which is not you).
5 or 6 orders were fixed at the time of this thread. The comment that most people never came back to comment after receiving replacements is true. The 'most' doesn't include you or the OP. The OP has now kindly gone back to edit the original post. That said, your post today was the first time the remake of your chips was acknowledged here so I can understand that anyone who read even the entire thread early this morning would believe it was unresolved.

To me at least, the fact you can't view each post and it's direct replies in one place, and the fact the oldest post comes first, makes it more difficult to follow properly. So yes, I find it hard to navigate, and as a result I miss a whole lot of things. None of that is your fault either.

So, FWIW, here is a copy and paste from the email I received earlier today.
"I was about to go ahead and pull the trigger but thought I'd ask one of the PCF guys who helped me with my design a couple of questions.
He told me to simply read the first post in this thread https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/split-spots-on-diamond-square-mold-from-cpc.68741/
and told me it was never resolved. I read through the first couple of pages and decided I would cut my losses and put my money towards some Paulson's instead. Sorry to say but I won't be ordering any CPC customs now or in the future"

Send that non buyer to me. I'll set him straight. Some chippers are just ignorant. I've owned the entire spectrum of chips on offer today. From China clays to ceramic hybrids to BCCs to CPCs and RHCs and even the most coveted of holy grail sets of both Paulsons and TRKs. There's a reason that I own more CPC sets today than I do of anything else.

There might be a few disgruntled/grumpy customers here and there (like any business), but assure you that on the whole, we are sending a lot more customers your way than we are taking away.

I think you provide excellent customer service. I always get fast email responses, regardless of the time of day it was sent, and I've had more change requests honored than most would consider to be reasonable.

Oh, and the chips are awesome! I've never seen anyone who made great design choices also complain about their chips.

 

[David Spragg]

Send that non buyer to me. I'll set him straight. Some chippers are just ignorant. I've owned the entire spectrum of chips on offer today. From China clays to ceramic hybrids to BCCs to CPCs and RHCs and even the most coveted of holy grail sets of both Paulsons and TRKs. There's a reason that I own more CPC sets today than I do of anything else.

There might be a few disgruntled/grumpy customers here and there (like any business), but assure you that on the whole, we are sending a lot more customers your way than we are taking away.

I think you provide excellent customer service. I always get fast email responses, regardless of the time of day it was sent, and I've had more change requests honored than most would consider to be reasonable.

Oh, and the chips are awesome! I've never seen anyone who made great design choices also complain about their chips.

"I always get fast email responses, regardless of the time of day it was sent"

I try
I'll be trying to contact him again today

 

[JP1984]

I'm saving up right now to put in my order for my very first CPC set in the next csq run.
I'll still have to sell one of my beloved GPI sets to make it happen but I'm confident you guys will deliver an awesome product.

Are you me?

 

[warma]

Thank you, I completely missed that!

Nah, that trips a lot of folks up. Two different terms for the same mold.

Fortunately, we just use l(arge) and s(mall) crown vs crown border and crown dash border.

 

[PlaidDragon]

Long Live CPC!
View attachment 976840

I'm going to have to steal the color/spot combos for your charcoal chip at some point for a future order. Looks awesome.

 

[Nymor]

I'm going to have to steal the color/spot combos for your charcoal chip at some point for a future order. Looks awesome.

It's very pretty ... red has a lot going for it as well.

(saved to my ideas folder)

 

[PlaidDragon]

With DSQ for example, as many as 2/3 of the chips are rejected! Hence they have to be more expensive.

Holy cow burgers! I had no idea on that. I always (obviously incorrectly) assumed the reject rate might be 1 in 5 or 1 in 10.

 

[MeridianFC]

Holy cow burgers! I had no idea on that. I always (obviously incorrectly) assumed the reject rate might be 1 in 5 or 1 in 10.

At that level I'd be tempted to say the mold is Out of Service.

 

[chipinla]

At that level I'd be tempted to say the mold is Out of Service.

 

[RainmanTrail]

Holy cow burgers! I had no idea on that. I always (obviously incorrectly) assumed the reject rate might be 1 in 5 or 1 in 10.

I don't think he means that out of 1000 chips pressed on the DSQ mold ~667 of them have to be thrown away, but rather that the number of "bad" chips in any single pressing varies, and that in some cases, it can be as high as 2/3rds of them. So if say 40 chips are pressed at once, maybe 5 of them are bad in batch A, 7 are bad in batch B, 13 are bad in batch C, and batch D was really bad with 26 rejects.

 

[David Spragg]

I don't think he means that out of 1000 chips pressed on the DSQ mold ~667 of them have to be thrown away, but rather that the number of "bad" chips in any single pressing varies, and that in some cases, it can be as high as 2/3rds of them. So if say 40 chips are pressed at once, maybe 5 of them are bad in batch A, 7 are bad in batch B, 13 are bad in batch C, and batch D was really bad with 26 rejects.

Exactly. Some just have to be put back through the press again. But, one measure is the number of slugs you start with in an attempt to end up with the right finished quantity. Obviously spot patterns and colors can affect the calculation, but on average you'd start with 15% extra on Amold and 40% extra on DSQ and the Crowns because that many simply won't make it.

 

[allforcharity]

Another reason that LCrown should be considered premium/best!