In my short time on this forum, this has by far been my favorite thread to just read. The amount of science and technique that goes into these little colored discs would surprise the average person. Next time a non chipper friend balks at what you payed for your chips, send them to this thread!
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split spots on Diamond Square mold from CPC? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Rhodeman77
- Start date
One Eyed Dollar
Flush
Love all the updates in this thread. Very cool info.
Just throwing this idea out there, assuming that some of the problem is due to the different colors melting at different temperatures. I'm imagining a situation where the edge spot melts first and the base color hasn't fully melted when it is pushed out through the melted edge spot, causing the split. Do you track the melting temperatures at all when trying to decide how many extras to make? Maybe you could even publicly assign a temperature range to each color without disclosing any details: just say that the temp is "low, medium, or high" or "1, 2, 3, or 4" for example. And then flag it if you have two colors that are more than 2 steps apart on the list and more likely to cause split spots. And customers could try to avoid bad temperature combos when designing chips if they had that info available.
Just thinking out loud. I'm not sure if that's even a primary source of the problem, since the manufacturing process is complex.
Just throwing this idea out there, assuming that some of the problem is due to the different colors melting at different temperatures. I'm imagining a situation where the edge spot melts first and the base color hasn't fully melted when it is pushed out through the melted edge spot, causing the split. Do you track the melting temperatures at all when trying to decide how many extras to make? Maybe you could even publicly assign a temperature range to each color without disclosing any details: just say that the temp is "low, medium, or high" or "1, 2, 3, or 4" for example. And then flag it if you have two colors that are more than 2 steps apart on the list and more likely to cause split spots. And customers could try to avoid bad temperature combos when designing chips if they had that info available.
Just thinking out loud. I'm not sure if that's even a primary source of the problem, since the manufacturing process is complex.
superchromix
Full House
I would guess that the thickness of the initial slugs could contribute to this issue. If there is too much material in the slug, which needs to be pushed out of the mold when it is pressed, this could result in the edge spot material being pushed out, resulting in a split spot. Maybe look into QC on initial slug thickness?
facinfears217
Straight
After seeing these totally just scrapped my tri order! Can't drop 3-5k and have this be outcome. I for one can't stand split/squeezd at all. I'm a purest so they all better be at a +/-1% screwed up.
I'll wait for a while before I pull trigger. Love the tri moon though ahhhhhh.y
facinfears217
Straight
As a poker dealer/floor guy (counting chips from 10ft away if your talking $25 or $100 the potential for guy (al) to have $1000 or $500 is a big no no in a managers eyes.
Did you see my updates post? Splits were pulled out.
Not to derail the thread, but...
That 25K is the bomb! Is that newer than your others? I hadn't seen it before.
RainmanTrail
Straight Flush
Ya, I just added those for fun when I got my Bounty chips in case I want to do a deep stacks tourney.
Just got my FDL set and if I could go back and do it again I would remove the Tri-moon from my order. I didn’t see this thread till well after my order was placed and I just crossed my fingers and hoped for the best. I only had 220 chips on the tri moon but at least 30 have true splits and probably 40-50% have severe squeezed spots at are really close to being true splits. If that chip was my work horse chip in my game there is no way I would find that acceptable. I did email David and he basically said it’s just a product of that specific spot pattern. I personally feel like if that is the case it should definitely be noted on the site somewhere. On the other 1200 non tri moon chips there were no issues. Overall I am pretty happy with the set but the splits bug me more than I’d like.
OfficerLovejoy
Full House
C'mon, show us pictures.
Eloe2000
Straight Flush
FWIW as someone who has placed an order in the last month, David did plenty of disclosing about split spots to me. I assume he had changed his disclosure process since this thread. My set is almost entirely DG bases. There was plenty of discussion about specific chips and reasons why it may occur. Fortunately I had seen this thread before and I was already aware. In the end, I am not changing anything and I will expect some splits. For me it was either do the set I want and accept some level of imperfection or don’t do it at all. A non-DG based set is not in the cards for me.
On the edge spots page of the website there is a linked image regarding this.
I've been sending that same info out for a long time now. It would appear many don't read it or ignore it though, but it's definitely being sent as several people have opted to pay the optional premium. It's also linked to the spots page on the website. I have been waiting for an update to the design tool which will automatically flag chips that might be an issue but sadly the developer has been sick with Covid for nearly 3 months so it hasn't been completed yet.
OfficerLovejoy
Full House
So what % are the normal levels of split spots the 20% premium buys the customer?
Has this been up for sometime? I know my order was from last fall. If that has been up for quite some time then that is on me. Again the vast majority of my chips exceeded or met my expectations. Guess I should have found that and done my own due diligence a little more thoroughly.
It's impossible to be precise because they vary through mold/colors/spot patterns. Problematic ones have historically always had 10-20%, it's been like that for many many years, it's nothing new. It only appears to happen more frequently because people here have requested we use more and more complex spot patterns. We already make and reject a significant amount of extras as it is, without us doing that the splits would be 50-80%.
If people are still not satisfied we will simply have to discontinue half the spot patterns, some molds, and some colors. It's as simple as that.
Yes it has been up for some time, it caused several customers to discuss their spots going back a good few months now. I guess most people only reference the spot patterns through the design tool though which is why I wanted to add it on there. When that is achieved I will post again here.
As I stated though, 10-20% is the norm for any small spots and only the level you could hope to get by paying the premium.
For orders like yours that were placed before this thread appeared, we have been deliberately making sufficient extras (at a huge cost to ourselves) to bring the split level down to that 10-20%, so no-one has lost out by not seeing this thread anyway.
Additionally, I have for some time been alerting customers who have placed orders after this thread started of their options with any problematic chips.
Before we threw out the rejects, your $1's had about 50% splits. Had we not taken action, that's what you would have ended up with.
PS - it may have not been obvious enough but I was trying to demonstrate on that graphic that the top 3 chips show 10-20% with splits and the bottom about 50%.
Edit*** my CPCs arrived last month and they’re absolutely beautiful in every way. CPC has stepped up their game or this problem must have been temporary. No split spots to speak of in my whole set. Even on the tri moons. Couldn’t be happier.
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/cpc-nevada-club-las-vegas-cash-diasqr.91704/#post-1891110
Not sure if I posted this but David made it made it right and I am happy as a clam.
I don't think you posted it, no.
Unfortunately most people never mention when problems are fixed and I've already lost one order today due to someone being directed to the OP of this thread.
Jeeze, sorry I cost you an order.
Let me try and get 10x back for you.
I'm absolutely thrilled with the quality of my sets from CPC. In case folks are not aware, the CPC factory provides some extras of each chip in the event of manufacturing defects or errors. Either way, this is a handmade product in which the chips are imperfectly perfect to me. An error chip or split spot here and there is not the end of the world and the factory extras make up for the very small amount of chips with imperfections.
Wasn't you, someone else.
Also I guess most people wouldn't bother scrolling through every post in a thread anyway.
Shame there isn't a way people can see all direct replies to a single post, or is there? (and I haven't figured it out)
Hey, they look better than when we shipped themLet me try and get 10x back for you.
I'm absolutely thrilled with the quality of my sets from CPC. In case folks are not aware, the CPC factory provides some extras of each chip in the event of manufacturing defects or errors. Either way, this is a handmade product in which the chips are imperfectly perfect to me. An error chip or split spot here and there is not the end of the world and the factory extras make up for the very small amount of chips with imperfections.
That’s unfortunate. Anyone eagle eyed looking for split spots will find them even in Paulsons.
On my order, it was what… 5% of all spots split? Assuming they’re all in play, which they won’t be (especially as David provides extras, so some of the splits are pulled out), and chips are stacked in bunches, the odds of seeing one aligned so the one errant split spot is facing the right way is like what…? Close to me being invited and playing in a $500/$1,000 game on HCL.
As I stated, it was a non-issue for me at the beginning. I added the data for transparency sakes.
Add David rose to the occasion with this robust discussion. CPC figured out the DG nexus, added a warning and understanding of how split spots arise, looks closer for splits, made the above case right, and even adds an option to further reduce the risk of split spots…
This is a non-issue for me. So much so that I didn’t even check my second set for splits.
And I have a third set in the queue. No worries at all.
What about people like me? I wish my order had more split spots it’s too perfect.
LOL kidding (sorta), but really I could not be happier with mine including my set of all trimoons.
LOL kidding (sorta), but really I could not be happier with mine including my set of all trimoons.
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
I haven't ordered since @David Spragg and CPC took over, but I did a 100-chip addon denom to my ASM set and got exactly 100 chips.
While I think your statement is generally true, I don't think it's universally true.
I think your Canoe Clubs are one of the best designed sets out there. Gratz.
And, as an additional testimonial I own three separate CPC sets and am ecstatic with each one of them.
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