I wouldn't describe the way I put the stub down as "extremely cautious". Some of the cards I use are slippery than others. When this is the case I just put a little extra effort when putting it down to make sure the top few cards don't go sliding around. But either way, I find it an annoying process
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Tips on being a player dealer (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter stargod05
- Start date
I set the stub down only when action is on me (other than when once all board cards have been dealt). View my hole cards and act (fold / bet / call / raise), then pick up the stub. Always the same procedure.
That's interesting. I feel funny about peeking at my cards when action is on me. I prefer to look at them ahead of time. It make me feel like less eyes are on me.
Also, when I'm not in early position I feel like it can speed up the gameplay if I've already seen my card and know what action I want to take when it gets to me. The biggest downside I see to my method is of course missing/losing where action is at because my head was down in my cards.
Nine_high
3 of a Kind
IDK, it doesn't seem like any kind of issue to me. Just set it down and become a player. Pick it up when it's time to be use it. Set it back down when done.
If I'm dealing and viewing my cards before my action, chances are I'm not doing (or watching) what I should be as the dealer. A definitive break between the two makes it clear when I'm acting as the dealer or as a player.
I can definitely see this argument.
Do you put down the stub after the flop to keep distinguishing between when you're acting as a player vs. dealer?
Sometimes I confuse my players when action is on me, I'm holding the deck, and I spend a few seconds thinking. People will ask things like "Is it on me?" and I'll have to clarify that it's on me and I'm just thinking.
I almost never put the stub down until the river.* It gets a little difficult in games that use more than two hole cards, and there are also hosting duties that can be fulfilled mid-hand, but I generally have a grip on the stub outside of that.
Constantly putting it down and picking it back up again is not only slow but risky. You are multiplying the potential failure opportunities. You might as well never pick it up then — just leave it on the table. I don't understand.
* I recently asked some industry folks whether they are trained to drop the stub and cap it with the cut card after the river is dealt. The overwhelming consensus is that yes, they are trained and told to do that. It gives you an extra hand to settle things up. Still, keep the stub separate from the muck and burn cards.
Constantly putting it down and picking it back up again is not only slow but risky. You are multiplying the potential failure opportunities. You might as well never pick it up then — just leave it on the table. I don't understand.
* I recently asked some industry folks whether they are trained to drop the stub and cap it with the cut card after the river is dealt. The overwhelming consensus is that yes, they are trained and told to do that. It gives you an extra hand to settle things up. Still, keep the stub separate from the muck and burn cards.
An alternative way is : on the flop you deal the flop + turn+river (turn and river face down).
That way you pick the stub until the flop and then you can put the stub aside for the rest of the round.
Pros:
-Faster
Cons:
-If someone sees the face down cards flash( turn or river ) they have all the information on the flop.
-Not very casino-like
Do you guys think that is an improvement versus picking up and putting down the stub each street?
That way you pick the stub until the flop and then you can put the stub aside for the rest of the round.
Pros:
-Faster
Cons:
-If someone sees the face down cards flash( turn or river ) they have all the information on the flop.
-Not very casino-like
Do you guys think that is an improvement versus picking up and putting down the stub each street?
You are missing the biggest con, which is it threatens the integrity of the board. No way.
Yes, there is a reason why you don't see this in a casino.
Absolutely not. In fact, I'd probably refuse to play in a game that did this if it was for more than a couple dollars. Starting with the main problem we're solving (Peeking at your cards as the dealer before the flop), it doesn't even help the problem.
There are probably so many cons to this idea, a few I can think of off the top of my head are:
- This totally eliminates the pros of burning cards. You can now see marked cards that are face down.
- Mucking cards into the face down cards could be terrible
I'm sure others will come up with more reason why this is a bad idea, but I think these 2 alone are reason enough to not do this.
Nine_high
3 of a Kind
This is actually one of my biggest pet peeves and one of the few often-seen things that will get you scolded at my game. Nothing but reasons not to do this. Especially in games with discards.
Maybe you guys have a different way of picking up and setting down a stub of cards than I do. But I cannot understand what is so risky about this.
I see some people set it down and leave it there, just peeling from it on the table. That's ok I guess but I feel like it's easier to grab more than one card at a time or knock the top few off.
After the river I used to fan the stub. I still do sometimes but nowadays I pretty much just set it down again.
When you fan it, do you take the cut cars off the bottom prior to fanning?
Nine_high
3 of a Kind
Yes I slide it out, fan, then place it sideways under the arch
overthingking the whole thing
Relax take a breath, it is all just supposed to be fun, unless you are playing for mortgages.......
Relax take a breath, it is all just supposed to be fun, unless you are playing for mortgages.......
Wow, this thread came back with a lot of action. Lol. Okay...
Also, nobody does stub counts here? lol That's generally done after the river has been dealt and I don't see it as a practical procedure in the first couple of rounds when there's more stuff for the dealer to do as opposed to at the end.
I don't know, I've never had a problem doing as pictured below. Unless someone is really going out of their way to look at your cards, other players won't be able to see them. Even in the photo I wasn't able to see the cards through the camera, but I can move my head to a position where I can see them both clearly. And I keep the stub relatively far away from my hole cards so that everyone can see a clear separation:
I looked this up and was surprised to see that this is an actual procedure according to a WSOP dealer's guide from 10 years ago. I personally don't do this and was taught to always mix the stub with the muck after the river. Literally mix into it, not just place on top. This also helps prevent people from asking to see what the next cards were. The WSOP guide says this is to retrieve the top the stub in case of an irregularity. Okay fair enough. I have never personally had such an irregularity that required retrieval of the stub, but I suppose the possibility exists and maybe that outweighs any other existing pros of the procedure I follow. I have never dealt for the WSOP, but I have dealt the WPT and never heard there were any issues with how I dealt.
No, that doesn't work in my opinion. Some others have commented why this might be troublesome, but one reason I see is that sometimes the dealer reveals a board card before action has completed. In those instances, it may be necessary to use the river card as the turn and then reshuffle the original turn into the stub and deal the top card as the new river. I suppose if the stub is separate from the muck (which I said above is something I don't do), then maybe this could still work, but it doesn't solve the other complications that others have already mentioned, like two face down cards just sitting there on the table in a very vulnerable position.
Also, nobody does stub counts here? lol That's generally done after the river has been dealt and I don't see it as a practical procedure in the first couple of rounds when there's more stuff for the dealer to do as opposed to at the end.
Sure, it seems simple enough to just set down a stub and then pick it up when you need to. But I also always tell people that poker is the easiest game to deal... provided that you can deal perfectly every time and neither you nor the players make any mistakes. Once you factor in mistakes and irregularities, it easily becomes the most difficult game to deal in the casino. The same with dropping the stub. If you can be sure that you never have a mishap with the stub that's not in your hand... the deck stays square and nobody ever touches it, then sure there's no problem. But the reality is that once you no longer have control of the stub... well that's just it: you have no control of the stub. Anything can happen to it, and eventually something will. As @glynn already mentioned, dropping the stub introduces unnecessary risk and slows the game down.
You use your wrist to hide your cards... Interesting, I'll have to try that
harrysallout
Straight
I thought you were trying to shank yourself
"Hey... This card is marked with blood"
I didn’t even notice that. It was hard enough trying to take the photo without using my hands to hold the phone.
Yeah... How did you take the photo lol
I had to set the three second timer with the phone propped up and then get into position
What does "also helps" mean here? In addition to what other benefit?
ngmcs8203
Flush
One of the first books I read on poker drilled it into my head that looking at your cards for the first time when action is on you is more important than feeling the pressure of gazing eyes. You need to pay attention to what is happening in front of you whether you are dealing or not. The information gathered is more valuable than the tells you might give off when you look at your cards.
I believe I was just saying that in addition to it being taught as a procedure to follow for whatever other reasons. I can imagine though that mixing into the muck prevents people from retrieving and seeing whatever cards. Plus, once the hand is over and the deck needs to be squared (which is done with the faces outwards), nobody would be able to determine what cards were previously folded or which cards were part of the stub. Just brainstorming here. I honestly don't remember or never bothered to ask for the specific reasons for mucking a stub.
"Information gathered" meaning spotting others peoples tells when they see their hand right?
I guess I just don't try very hard to spot tells. Not really sure what to look for/trust. But for whatever reason I always feel that people are looking at me for a tell lol.
ngmcs8203
Flush
Absolutely. Shaking hands, change in posture, etc. It also gives you a chance to see who is paying attention and who is not.
Thanks all for the feedback on my suggestion of dealing the turn and river face down on the flop.
That really is not the best option.
Will definitely take that into account for my home game.
I guess I'm leaning towards what @BGinGA said. dropping the stub when its my turn to act and picking it back up the rest of the time.
Seems a bit flimsy but less tiring.
As a rotational dealer then I guess its not an issue to hold the stub for that whole round.
As a designated dealer then I would prefer dropping the stub when its my turn to play.
That really is not the best option.
Will definitely take that into account for my home game.
I guess I'm leaning towards what @BGinGA said. dropping the stub when its my turn to act and picking it back up the rest of the time.
Seems a bit flimsy but less tiring.
As a rotational dealer then I guess its not an issue to hold the stub for that whole round.
As a designated dealer then I would prefer dropping the stub when its my turn to play.
Fwiw, I also set down the stub (with the dealer button on top) when dealing a rotating self-dealt game, when it's my turn to act.
If I'm acting as a player, no deck in hand. If I'm acting as dealer, the stub is in my hand. There is never any confusion at the table if I'm moving chips or cards.
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