• This site contains affiliate links. If you choose to make a purchase after clicking a link, Poker Chip Forum may receive a commission at no additional cost to you. Thank you for your support!

Tom Brady isn't the GOAT (1 Viewer)

pacmartine said:
But to the greatest, it is about winning. The undeniable drive to be validated.
Click to expand...
100%. But cmon, those people are the exceptions not the rule. The best teacher in the world, the best lawyer in the world, the best heart surgeon. Generally, all those people will have something wrong with them, some issue, some drive, something that's different.

Jordan was very obviously "different". Kobe was very obviously "different". I just don't see it a bunch in other folks, whether that's personally or in professional sports.
Chawks45 said:
Since you originally used basketball as the starting point, think Charles Barkley regrets never winning a championship? He's been on record numerous times saying he wished he won one. Or even going back more old school, what about when Clyde Drexler joined the Rockets so he could have a legit shot at a championship?
Click to expand...
I'm sure Charles would love a ring. If that was his ultimate and only goal while he was playing, then I sure think he would have gone about many things a whole lot differently. It only goes to prove my point that the NBA or NFL isn't however many men on the field or court who all NEED to win a championship, or have that as their whole and only focus.
 
Lebron is in that category too. He put everything this year behind winning.
 
Frogzilla said:
Yea so take tyreek as an example. Certainly hill/mahomes combo is a top 3 deep threat. But how much of that is hill vs mahomes? It’s not so easy to parse. Mahomes makes mecole hardman look pretty good also. And kelce. And the o-line. Maybe they have elite players at every position...or maybe mahomes simply makes them look unstoppable
Click to expand...
Tyreek sizzles. He can outrun the sound of light, and he regularly makes a 6 yard loss into a 6 yard gain. They hit him on sweeps, reverses, the rare bubble/wr screen. I'm pretty sure he can be evaluated pretty well on his own outside of deep bombs.

Mahomes cooks. Scrambles, sits in the pocket, can release from what seems like any possible arm slot angle, I think if you took him today and ran a scouting report on his attributes, he'd be off the charts across the board.

I totally get it's hard to discern who is directly responsible for what, but a Hall of Fame TE is a Hall of Fame TE. They're stacked and I hate it :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
 
pacmartine said:
Lebron is in that category too. He put everything this year behind winning.
Click to expand...
I believe so. It's harder to tell since he has burgeoning business pursuits, family, is an image in pop culture, politics, etc., but I believe he too has a wire that's not connected, that makes him driven towards success without regard for anything else.
 
So then what is everyone's thoughts on GOAT WR and RB?

I may be biased with Rice as WR GOAT. But RB GOAT I don't think is clear... Payton maybe.
 
There is never one sole criteria that is going to determine GOAT-status. Championships, stats, talent, ability in the peak of their prime, longevity of skills, leadership, consistency, record, clutch-factor, impact on teammates’ success, etc. all go into what makes the GOAT the GOAT. Sure, you can point to one or two of the aforementioned criterion in a vacuum and not pick Brady when applying them, as there are and were guys with arguably better absolute primes, more overall talent/ability, and so on, but when you put it all together and it is just hard for me to accept any answer other than Brady.

Basketball is more complex, but when applying the same criterion and sentiment from above almost all fingers will point to Jordan and Lebron. League parity, teammates, and era do play a stronger factor in basketball, which is why it is easier to debate. Once again though, you can say others for specifics like Wilt for stats, Russell for championships, Hakeem for absolute prime (I am completely biased here), and so on, but the total package will usually end up pointing to the same two. Jordan has the edge for the masses as of now, but when it is all said and done Lebron is going to be hard to argue against.
 
Johnny Unitas. Probably mentioned above, but here is why I choose him:
He changed the game by fundamentally altering the position of quarterback. Over the years, those changes have been adopted by every pro team. This was a profound change in strategy that changed everything.

Johnny Unitas, because he was simply brilliant
 
Wait 'til the pros get a taste of Trevor.
 
Let’s talk coaches. I’m not a Packers fan but there’s a reason they call it the Lombardi trophy, right?
 
Tom Brady is the GOAT at winning. There’s no question.

He’s not the GOAT when considering top skilled QB of all. That is of course an opinion, which can be supported with stats.

These arguments really aren’t whether or not Tom Brady is the GOAT, rather it’s what is the definition of a GOAT.

If you think GOAT is primarily based on winning, then it’s obviously Brady. If you think it’s based on skill, there are better options.
 
Frogzilla said:
How long do we have to wait before we can put Mahomes at the top
Click to expand...
In *any* athletic endeavor, a current dominant #1 is always the best of all time, due to human evolution and advances in training and nutrition. Always. Just look, for example, at tennis -- the size and mobility of today's athletes is amazing.

But when you start arguing about historic greatness, scientific analysis and numeric comparisons are not the end-all. Regardless of how great you may argue the Belichik dynasty has been, fans who've been around forever are going to have a hard time rating the franchise above Green Bay and Pittsburgh in the history of the sport.
 
pltrgyst said:
In *any* athletic endeavor, a current dominant #1 is always the best of all time, due to human evolution and advances in training and nutrition. Always. Just look, for example, at tennis -- the size and mobility of today's athletes is amazing.

But when you start arguing about historic greatness, scientific analysis and numeric comparisons are not the end-all. Regardless of how great you may argue the Belichik dynasty has been, fans who've been around forever are going to have a hard time rating the franchise above Green Bay and Pittsburgh in the history of the sport.
Click to expand...
True except for baseball, where “nutrition” has taken an intentional step back
 
pacmartine said:
A lot of the other stats cut strongly toward Kareem. Russell was never Finals MVP and Kareem was all defensive team 11 years to Russell's 1, just to name a couple.

https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/kareem_abdul_jabbar_vs_bill_russell.htm
Click to expand...
Stats, schmats. Wilt Chamberlain changed the rules of the game -- literally:

"Men's professional basketball in the United States (the National Basketball Association) widened it further to 16 feet (4.9 m) in the 1964–65 NBA season to reduce the effectiveness of dominant centers, especially Wilt Chamberlain."
 
Last edited:
MykL316 said:
Blow the Super Bowl? You got beat, plain and simple. It was a good run though.
Click to expand...
Yeah they blew it. They were the better team. They shouldn't have been held to the teens score wise. They averaged 35+ all season. The Giants had a great front and game planned very well and took home a well earned victory. But if you ask any New England fan, the Patriots blew it. 18-1 doesn't matter and no ones talks about. 19-0 would have been history.
 
pltrgyst said:
In *any* athletic endeavor, a current dominant #1 is always the best of all time, due to human evolution and advances in training and nutrition. Always. Just look, for example, at tennis -- the size and mobility of today's athletes is amazing.

But when you start arguing about historic greatness, scientific analysis and numeric comparisons are not the end-all. Regardless of how great you may argue the Belichik dynasty has been, fans who've been around forever are going to have a hard time rating the franchise above Green Bay and Pittsburgh in the history of the sport.
Click to expand...

You should probably factor in the salary cap when comparing Dynasty eras
 
pacmartine said:
They banned dunking in college
Click to expand...
That rule was enacted for high school and college, and it was done in response to national concern about shattering backboards. Along with a racist national response to all-black Texas Western winning the NCAA title...
 
pltrgyst said:
That rule was enacted for high school and college, and it was done in response to national concern about shattering backboards. Along with a racist national response to all-black Texas Western winning the NCAA title...
Click to expand...
I'm not a basketball historian, but I think to simplify this as having nothing to do with Kareem doesn't fit how popular and how socially relevant he was even coming out of high school. It's called the Alcindor Rule and was enacted the year after UCLA won with him dunking over everyone as a sophomore on UCLA's road to a championship. At the time everyone predicted the 3 championships he won before he ever played. I'm sure there was plenty of racial motivation to back up the rule with Texas Western beating Kentucky, but before TW won the championship Kareem was the most highly recruited player (even causing segregated schools to open recruiting) and was also a very outspoken player on social justice. He had to sit out per NCAA rules the year TW won, but he wasn't a quiet bystander...he was a social justice magnet. And as a sophomore when he finally got to play he was the person imposing his will most with the dunk and literally being the personification of what those racists were trying to undermine. It's hard not to say he was at least the final motivation for that bigoted rule. I mean as a college player playing one season, a couple months after the rule was enacted, he would be sitting next to Jim Brown, Muhammed Ali, and Bill Russel advocating for Ali's refusal to go to war. That doesn't happen if he's not already a huge part of the social movement. I would go as so far to say the rule enactment played a factor in him boycotting the 68 Olympics.
 
I’m just here to say you’re entitled to your opinion, but you’ve proven that opinions can be wrong. Lol!

1603137373869.jpeg


#ThatIsAll #MyGOAT #GoPats
 
Chester Copperpot said:
It comes down to what greatest means.

He has a case for greatest, if that means most accomplished overall.

If greatest means the best, most skilled to ever play the position, it isn’t him. It’s Peyton Manning.
Click to expand...
I agree with the first for the most part. If we are gonna discuss skill set, I think it brings other QBs into the GOAT convo. I’d say that Peyton might arguably be the most intelligent QB to ever pick up a football.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account and join our community. It's easy!

Register

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Similar threads

BigSlick4523
  • Locked
Brady beats the Cowboys tonight Scripted ?
7 8 9
Replies
259
Views
10K
Legend5555
Legend5555
btbmason
Keeping Up with the (Chipper) Joneses
Replies
17
Views
871
allforcharity
allforcharity
A
Sale 3D Printed Buttons and Card Protectors
Replies
26
Views
2K
Bikshu
Bikshu
Johnblue
THE GREATEST CPC/ASM/BCC SETS OF ALL TIME.
2
Replies
51
Views
5K
Grimace
Grimace
Ste316
New User from the UK
Replies
11
Views
332
Sway
Sway
Back
Top Bottom