What are you thinking... (8 Viewers)

shorticus

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Over the course of my time on this site, I've spent my fair share of time in this section. I've watched and participated in a lot of the PAHWM threads, and I find those to be very fun. However, in real life poker practice, I often wonder how everyone processes information.

My question is simple, you are at a table playing Hold Em and you finally get a hand you want to play. What is your thought process? How do you begin your analysis process? How do you proceed throughout the hand? It's an open forum, feel free to share as much as you would like.

I think this should lead to some potentially interesting conversation.
 
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The process started many hands ago. Hopefully I don't act first. But never sit on good cards, always make good hands pay, so I raise first if I have to. But in most cases I'm hoping for someone else to lead, at first. Setting the trap. That's the first thought I have. After that the next step is one of a million things depending on who's in, who's betting, the pot, etc.
 
I'm definitely guilty of having all my strategic thought leak out of my ears as soon as I get cards lol, but I try to keep my basics. Basics are context: what have the people acting before me done, and are the people after me telegraphing what they'll do. All this adds context to my position before I even peek my cards.

Once I peek, I think about my raise sizing and what I want to occur + what the worst case scenario is. For some I plan to raise/call, other's I'm comfortable raise/folding, all depends on the table/opponents/stacksizes/what I've got. Usually not a fan of limp/folding, not worth the money. I try not to be surprised by the situation once I raise.

I put lots of stock in tells and live exploits because that's how I have fun at the table, and if you're playing live low stakes you can sometimes see what the next few players will do before you act. Not every time, but occasionally you'll have a real special player on your left who physically tells you exactly what they're about to do, chips or cards in hand.
 
  • Position
  • How many streets do I need to see to make my hand - if I’m drawing a straight or flush I most likely need to see at least the turn
  • Who am I playing against in the hand? How many and aggression levels and how involved are they with the game - stack sizes
  • Have the calling stations folded? Or the lucky seat?
  • How desperate am I?
  • Is the preflop pot more than my chip stack - can I use the all in hammer?
These are things going through my mind as the action comes around - I’m checking boxes and building raises based on it.
I’m not waiting till it’s on me to run all these things through my head.
 
I observe the action and try to decide what the right play is without giving away what my own hand is

The decision what right play is…I dunno honestly the streets feel different to me. Preflop stuff I’m thinking much differently than flop.

@shorticus Do you ever watch those “poker out loud” shows that solve for why puts out?
 
Whether I want to play the hand or not will depend on position and previous action and player tendencies already. Generally speaking I prefer to come in for a raise, so how much to raise is often considered next and will depend on which players I'm hoping to keep in or fold out and how many people limped in ahead of me, whether I think I can buy the button, etc. The response to my bet, my relative position (IP or OOP), and the board itself will all go in to the decision of whether to cbet or not. Since I mostly play $1/$2 or $1/$3 live in the casino I try to avoid FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome) because I find my win rate plummets if I depend on the recs to get the money in when I'm good.

I could go further but it starts to branch wildly from here and you did just ask how we start it.
 
I observe the action and try to decide what the right play is without giving away what my own hand is

The decision what right play is…I dunno honestly the streets feel different to me. Preflop stuff I’m thinking much differently than flop.

@shorticus Do you ever watch those “poker out loud” shows that solve for why puts out?
I haven't been on solve for why in about 4 months now, and I've never seen the poker out loud stuff. I'm going to have to check it out.

I could go further but it starts to branch wildly from here and you did just ask how we start it.
I was asking about the general progression throughout a hand, not necessarily just how you start out. Feel free to elaborate.

*Updated OP for more clarity*
 
First, I ignore any game flow and violation specific stuff:

1. What is my position?
2. What are everyone's stack sizes?
3. What is my opening/3 betting range?
4. If folded to me, open to my standard size of I have a hand in my opening range from this spot.
5. If limped in front of me, I treat 1 limper as if they don't exist in terms of my opening range. If multiple limpers, raise only my hands I'd raise in early position. Otherwise limp hands in late position that play good multiway.

Then I start taking game flow and villain specific stuff into account.

Are the players behind me tight? Loose? Is the opener tight or loose? Anyone on tilt? How is my image? Am I winning? Am I losing? Can I expand my opening range? Can I 3 bet lighter?

If it's a tournament there is even more I think about.

1. Any ICM considerations?
2. Think even more about stack sizes.
3. Am I in open jamming territory?
4. Do I need to be really tight?
5. Does anyone else seem to care about ICM?

A lot of this is automatic at this point for me.
 
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First, I ignore any game flow and violation specific stuff:

1. What is my position?
2. What are everyone's stack sizes?
3. What is my opening/3 betting range?
4. If folded to me, open to my standard size of I have a hand in my opening range from this spot.
5. If limped in front of me, I treat 1 limper as if they don't exist in terms of my opening range. If multiple limpers, raise only my hands I'd raise in early position. Otherwise limp hands in late position that play good multiway.

Then I start taking game flow and villain specific stuff into account.

Are the players behind me tight? Loose? Is the opener tight or loose? Anyone on tilt? How is my image? Am I winning? Am I losing? Can I expand my opening range? Can I 3 bet lighter?

If it's a tournament there is even more I think about.

1. Any ICM considerations?
2. Think even more about stack sizes.
3. Am I in open jamming territory?
4. Do I need to be really tight?
5. Does anyone else seem to care about ICM?

A lot of this is automatic at this point for me.
I got a notification about this thread so I went back and read through the responses.

What I am realizing for myself is that a lot of what you are saying is actually done subconsciously. If I look back at my play over time, these are thoughts that I have while playing, but I can actually do this while having general conversation and mildly watching preflop action at the table. It all gets interesting (the mindset and thought process) comes in the post-flop game tree. Particularly in Hold Em.
 
I got a notification about this thread so I went back and read through the responses.

What I am realizing for myself is that a lot of what you are saying is actually done subconsciously. If I look back at my play over time, these are thoughts that I have while playing, but I can actually do this while having general conversation and mildly watching preflop action at the table. It all gets interesting (the mindset and thought process) comes in the post-flop game tree. Particularly in Hold Em.

I think that the mental part is far away from other aspects (ok perhaps with bankroll management), the most important; I mean for being a winning player, if you just want to have fun then...Walhalla

I remember myself during the game (having folded my cards or in the action):

- I have lost xyz$
- I´m raising too loose
- If I lose today...,
- He is better than me
- He bluffed me that day...
- AA?
1730214467789.png

- Trips
- I need to keep 30 dollars for the taxi in my pocket.

But it´s trainable. I'm not the best example. But its definitely trainable. And if you care about being the best player possible it should be one of your focus a "mindfully" poker player. You are going to avoid a lot of tilts and enjoy the ride much more.

And of course as you said, when you are postflop in the middle of the action without the nuts... thoughts get crazier.
 
I got a notification about this thread so I went back and read through the responses.

What I am realizing for myself is that a lot of what you are saying is actually done subconsciously. If I look back at my play over time, these are thoughts that I have while playing, but I can actually do this while having general conversation and mildly watching preflop action at the table. It all gets interesting (the mindset and thought process) comes in the post-flop game tree. Particularly in Hold Em.
So I was having the same thoughts…It’s been a loooooooong time since I had to put into words all the little things that I take into consideration at the table when acting preflop.

Position, stack size, image, opponents, etc all just comes naturally after years of degenning at the tables lol
 
5. If limped in front of me, I treat 1 limper as if they don't exist in terms of my opening range. If multiple limpers, raise only my hands I'd raise in early position. Otherwise limp hands in late position that play good multiway.
It was good to read through your preflop thought process. Mine is pretty similar aside from this point about limpers.

Instead of tightening my range and limping more when people have limped before me I will try to get more aggressive. Sometimes even playing any two cards when I am on the button. My goal here is to either take down the dead money preflop or get into a pot IP against one or two of these limpers.

If I get more than two callers or I get re-raised I'm going to shut things down and play fit or fold but by limping these players cap their range and I am going to be able to win the pot based on pure aggression more often than not.

Happy to hear your thoughts on this strategy and where you might disagree!
 
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I am starting to re-think some of my game. Specifically, when I bet out of position without a big pocket pair. Given that the odds are such that you miss on the flop, a continuation bet may cost you more money and a check invites a raise.

Otherwise, I like my pairs, my A-x suited and my paint.
 
I am starting to re-think some of my game. Specifically, when I bet out of position without a big pocket pair. Given that the odds are such that you miss on the flop, a continuation bet may cost you more money and a check invites a raise.

Otherwise, I like my pairs, my A-x suited and my paint.
Re-evaluating your strategy over time is never a bad thing.
 
First I'm watching the player who's acting. When action get to me:
1. Position
2. What to do?
3. How much?

Trying to stay focused on the game instead of daydreaming throughout.

Oftentimes playing with friends while hosting.. then the thought is, how do I stimulate conversations and engage in table talk.
 
As much and as fast as I can, before the action is on me, ideally a street a head with contingencies based on villain action. This is best case scenario, I'm not tired and button clicking. If I'm lucky, I'll do half of this.

PF
Consider cards, position. Am I playing?
Are people pre folding on my left? How does that change my position?
What's my opening size?
If opened, 3bet, fold, or call? Am I folding to 4bet?
Look for effective stack size.
If it's not me, note the preflop raiser, or last aggressive actor.

Pot is good
Calculate pot size, calculate SPR with effective stack size

Flop
If folded and my hand smashes flop, double check preflop ranges to reinforce/ reward good folding

Consider position, board interaction with my range, board interaction with villains range. Who has the range advantage on this board? Who has the nut advantage on this board? How often does my range want to bet/check and where does this hand fall in there?

Bet size
How dry/wet, static/ dynamic is the board?

Postflop in general
Value bets- what hands do I want to call me? What size bets will they call?

Bluffs- what hands am I trying to make fold? What size bluff will it require?

Checks- will I make more money check/ calling then betting? Generally moderate strength hands or maybe nut draws in loose multiway games- This is prolly debatable and I don't understand it fully)

Bluffing the river- has my story been consistent with runout? Have they demonstrated weakness (capped range)

Bluff catching the river- can they bluff? Have I given them rope (passivity, under repped hand), are there any value hands I can beat?

After the hand
Wtf just happened. Lemme write that down
Wtf just happened I need a walk
I'm so smart
I suck at poker
 

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