What do you do in this weird situation? (1 Viewer)

[SendThatStack]

Pretty weird situation happened last night. UTG and BTN both have around $600, MP has around $200

3 players on the flop
Pot: 35
utg: check
mp: bet $30
btn: raise to $100.
utg: raise to $400 (puts in $400 in green chips announces raise, and also holds up 4 fingers multiple times before action gets back to btn)
mp: calls all in for his ~$170 remaining.
btn: says call and puts in $300 in black.
utg: says "its $400 you need to put in $100 more"
Here's where it gets weird
btn says he didnt know it was $400, so utg says okay then call the $300. btn says he didnt think it was $300 either, he thought that utg was all in for his stack that was behind the line which was about $200 or so. Multiple people explain to btn that it was $400 and was made clear, and he just says how he messed up and wouldnt have called that but thought he was calling the $200 amount. Then he said he didnt see the green chips on the green felt (they do match very well so this is somewhat reasonable).

Do you
A: Force him to call the $400
B: If utg agrees, allow him to only call that $200 amount he thought was the bet
C: other?

These players are long time players and friends and wouldn't angle shoot or scam, but btn was pretty drunk and distracted throughout the hand.

 

[Bluegrass Poker]

BTN puts in another hundred and learns an expensive lesson about being drunk and distracted in a game.

Might be different if MP hadn’t put his whole stack in between them.

 

[Lil Tuna]

A. Force him to call the $400. Verbal is binding.
If they are long time friends, they can work it out or not amongst themselves after the game.

 

[Nine_high]

I'm a little confused by btn's story ...if he was calling $200, why did he put out $300? Was he just oversize-chip calling what he thought was a ~$100 rasie by mp?

If he legit thought he was calling only mp's $200 all in, then his options are $400 call or put just his $100 back in and fold since he didn't know the action. But given the action as you described, I'd say it's a $400 call and a lesson to pay attention more better.

I would not let him call $200 or $300.

 

[CHP TD]

What do your rules say?

 

[philhut]

I'd let him leave the $300 in and fold saving his $100 as it's not yet in the play area.....the 300 is long gone however already. Really he called though and there should be a show down.

So either he puts in the 300 and folds or puts in 400 for a showdown would be my ruling reading what I did.

 

[SendThatStack]

I'm a little confused by btn's story ...if he was calling $200, why did he put out $300? Was he just oversize-chip calling what he thought was a ~$100 rasie by mp?

If he legit thought he was calling only mp's $200 all in, then his options are $400 call or put just his $100 back in and fold since he didn't know the action. But given the action as you described, I'd say it's a $400 call and a lesson to pay attention more better.

I would not let him call $200 or $300.

Yeah he said it was an oversize call.

 

[Machine]

Never going to let him call the 200 and play for the pot. No 1/2 measures either.

As to un-call or put in the 400 I’m open but if it was a verbal “call” and not how much is it… then I’m leaning to putting it in

 

[TheDuke]

Button needs to put in the extra $100 or fold and relinquish the $300 he put in.

Regardless of everyone involved being good friends, rules need to be enforced. Otherwise where do you draw the line when more weird situations arise?

 

[Quicksilver-75]

First question, who the hell is in charge here? Dealer needs to take charge. If the dealer is passed in succession, host needs to step in immediately. Before anybody else tries to explain their intentions, 1st action needs to explain his play for clarification. Any action after that needs to explain why in the hell they should be getting money back.
Hard lessons here.
Second question, by the sounds of it should be asked by all involved. Who the hell sits down betting money like this without paying attention? Bet was $400. Pretty easy from there. I get it harder when friends are involved, and you may well decide to go easy but once that precident has been set, your game is fubar from there-on in. Don't have those players back for a while. If ever.

 

[SendThatStack]

First question, who the hell is in charge here? Dealer needs to take charge. If the dealer is passed in succession, host needs to step in immediately. Before anybody else tries to explain their intentions, 1st action needs to explain his play for clarification. Any action after that needs to explain why in the hell they should be getting money back.
Hard lessons here.
Second question, by the sounds of it should be asked by all involved. Who the hell sits down betting money like this without paying attention? Bet was $400. Pretty easy from there. I get it harder when friends are involved, and you may well decide to go easy but once that precident has been set, your game is fubar from there-on in. Don't have those players back for a while. If ever.

Yeah it sucks, I already told the player a call will always be a call in the future, and going to announce this at the next game. And yeah its pretty fucking retarded to have to do this because everyone already knew the rules... Sometimes people get drunk and act like idiots.

 

[dpeks13]

A. I feel your pain but at the end of the day, a call is a call.

 

[LeLe]

A: Force him to call the $400

There's no other way, but most likely the 2 friends will just throw in the $400 bet and check it down if they want to be friendly from my experience

 

[BGinGA]

The utg raise was announced, and btn verbally announced call (before shorting the pot). It's a call, period.

Pay attention, bro.

 

[DuckFat]

I actually had this happen in Vegas recently and the floor was called to resolve, the answer depends on the sequence of events.

If the BTN announced verbally and pushed in chips at the same time then the BTN is given the option to fold and lose the $300 or call the full $400 and proceed with the hand. The reason given for this ruling was, physical action supersedes verbal declarations so the $300 is in play and cannot be taken back but the verbal "call" action wasn't binding since it didn't line up with the physical call actions of either tossing in a single chip or putting in a higher chip total and getting change

If the BTN announced verbally then counted out chips to push in he would be in for the $400.

This being a home game with friends, players can work it out amongst themselves as long as it isn't some form of collusion.

 

[Eriks]

Green hundos? Yikes

Yeah, it’s a call

 

[Freudeus]

"Sorry mate, you made a verbal call. You know that means you call the last best, so another hundo in there please. Don't beat yourself up, we all make mistakes, good luck."

 

[puglia82]

Regency Casino Tirana: green 100 leke chips

 

[Bluegrass Poker]

Green hundos? Yikes

Yeah, it’s a call

Where did you get that? Says UTG puts $400 in green chips out, didn’t say it was 4 chips. Or did I miss something?

 

[Eriks]

Where did you get that? Says UTG puts $400 in green chips out, didn’t say it was 4 chips. Or did I miss something?

No you’re right, my bad. Reading comprehension poor

 

[Moxie Mike]

Pretty weird situation happened last night. UTG and BTN both have around $600, MP has around $200

3 players on the flop
Pot: 35
utg: check
mp: bet $30
btn: raise to $100.
utg: raise to $400 (puts in $400 in green chips announces raise, and also holds up 4 fingers multiple times before action gets back to btn)
mp: calls all in for his ~$170 remaining.
btn: says call and puts in $300 in black.

So the BTN put out $300 (in black $25's I presume) along with the $100 he already had out there?

btn: says call and puts in $300 in black.
utg: says "its $400 you need to put in $100 more"

So wouldn't he already have had $400 out there?

Here's where it gets weird
btn says he didnt know it was $400, so utg says okay then call the $300.

This is confusing. It was a $300 raise. The BTN put in $300, which should have closed the action, right?

btn says he didnt think it was $300 either, he thought that utg was all in for his stack that was behind the line which was about $200 or so. Multiple people explain to btn that it was $400 and was made clear, and he just says how he messed up and wouldnt have called that but thought he was calling the $200 amount.

OK So if I understand, the BTN grabs $300 worth of chips and pushed them forward to call what he thought was a ~$100 raise, thinking the MP player who'd called all-in was the raiser? He thought he was closing the action against a single, all-in player without realizing there was another opponent with a live hand?

Do you
A: Force him to call the $400
B: If utg agrees, allow him to only call that $200 amount he thought was the bet
C: other?

These players are long time players and friends and wouldn't angle shoot or scam, but btn was pretty drunk and distracted throughout the hand.

A: He did call by putting in $300, closing the action. There's nothing to rule on. You can't call a raise, then change your mind to then pull it back and fold. Your guy got drunk and confused and then he fucked up. Make sure the pot is right and deal the turn card.

B: Players can't change the rules. UTG can't reduce the size of his bet. If they want to settle it away from the table, that's between them.

He said he didnt see the green chips on the green felt (they do match very well so this is somewhat reasonable).

If your equipment is causing issues like this (or dirty stacks, etc.), then you might want to consider some type of remedy.

 

[LeLe]

Then he said he didnt see the green chips on the green felt (they do match very well so this is somewhat reasonable).

It could very likely he have some form of colour blindness

I myself included came from a family where most of the male relatives are colourblind and I had to avoid certain green like (dark green) and red combination in my chipset

And also green felt is a no_no for our family, black and light blue are the safest options

 

[JustinInMN]

btn says he didnt know it was $400, so utg says okay then call the $300. btn says he didnt think it was $300 either, he thought that utg was all in for his stack that was behind the line which was about $200 or so.

UTG probably didn't do himself any favors here with the "offer." It seems he really wants a call, and Button is now trying to come up with any way out of his misunderstanding of the action.

Then he said he didnt see the green chips on the green felt (they do match very well so this is somewhat reasonable).

I don't buy this for a second if he's a long time player.

BTN puts in another hundred and learns an expensive lesson about being drunk and distracted in a game.

I think this is the only way to be honest.

 

[upNdown]

It frustrates me that the guy even tried to make it an issue. You screwed up, you put in your chips. That’s poker.

 

[Terrys394]

if he thought it was $200 why did he put in three black ?

Yeah he said it was an oversize call.

Oversized call with multiple chips on a non all in bet ? Who does that ?

 

[kmccormick100]

Did he actually verbalize “call”? That does make it more difficult to offer any alternative options.

In a casino his options are to call the additional $100 or leave his $300 in and fold. (Also unclear - did he put in an additional $300 on top of his $100 out there already?)

In a friendly home game I might be willing to let him leave his $100 raise in and fold his hand if he was indeed drunk enough to not notice the bet, but there is no middle ground between there and the full $400 call.

We need pics of said “invisible” green chips on your felt.

 

[Nine_high]

Oversized call with multiple chips on a non all in bet ? Who does that ?

I might, especially if I don't have the right change. I don't see why this is a problem in and of itself?

 

[Terrys394]

I might, especially if I don't have the right change. I don't see why this is a problem in and of itself?

Yes if you’re facing 150 and put in 2 one hundred dollar chips but facing two hundred and putting in three one hundred dollar chips ? There’s no change needed

 

[grebe]

There's an exception in Roberts rules that allows a call to be pulled back if it was an honest mistake in understanding of the action.

Example: someone bets 100, another announced all in for 600, then next player says call and puts in the 100. He clearly missed the all in action, and this would be a hefty change in the action.

Your example seems to fall short of this. I agree with the consensus here, in that is just 25 percent of the bet that's the discrepancy. It's the house ruling though.

In general, I would tend to be pretty lenient on punishing those not paying attention in a house game though. Nobody wants to go to a game where they can lose their stack because of an error like that. It can leave a bad taste in your mouth, you know?

 

[Nine_high]

Yes if you’re facing 150 and put in 2 one hundred dollar chips but facing two hundred and putting in three one hundred dollar chips ? There’s no change needed

Fair enough, but according to the op the caller thought he was calling an all in of ambiguous amount around two hundred, which is a different thing. He was presumably trying to cover. Probably better to just toss in a single calling chip, considering his oversized call I think is part of the confusion, but generally I don't necessarily see this as a problem either.

The way I see it, if the ruling is he can reconsider his action because he reasonably didn't know utg reraised, then he can pull everything back except the original $100 and fold if he wants. If the ruling is he can't reconsider his action, which it seems should be the case here, then he's making it look like $400 and going to the turn regardless of how much he put in when he announced his call.