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What is your opinion about four-color decks? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter OnlyForHoldem
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Well, if you've got RFID cards and a reader in your fingertips then you're halfway there. Just hope you don't accidentally broadcast the info to everyone at your table, and the next two over.
Played with a set of Desjgn ones a month ago and also last night. Honestly it takes me a bit to get used to and I find myself looking at the board more than I'd like if I were using regular non 4 color decks. Hoping to get used to them but for now prefer the traditional 2 color.
acidjoe
Waiting List
I have used them live and not a fan. I exclusively use them when playing on line though.
It’s not a gimmick. It’s a smart improvement. Just like the “gimmick” of corner indices once was.
The limitations of two-color decks goes back literally hundreds of years. It was derived from the costs and cumbersome aspects of early printing. Only face cards (which comprise 3/13ths of the deck) sometimes got multiple colors, because there were far fewer of them. Changing/cleaning plates was more limited with just two types of monochrome cards. So all the non-face cards could be printed in big batches.
So the only reason for people to prefer two colors is familiarity with a tradition which arose out of an economic and practical limitation. Not from what was optimal.
If it had been affordable and practical to start out with four colors in the early days of printing, people today would feel that four was more familiar and traditional—and would laugh at any attempt to reduce them down to just two.
Four colors is an obvious improvement from a usability standpoint. It greatly increases visual recognition, and reduces the possibility of confusing suits. (In my experience, this happens most often with spades and clubs, which have vaguely similar forms as well as colors, but I certainly have once or twice misread a two-card “red” hand as suited when it was a heart and a diamond.)
The only usability argument I can think of for fewer colors would be to reduce the chances of an opponent seeing the color of your cards. (By this logic, all the suits should be the same color.) A black card or res card can mean either of two suits.
But once corner indices were introduced in the mid-19th century, it became much easier to peek at one’s own cards without a neighbor seeing them. If someone sees the color of yours holdings, that’s on you. Or else on a bad dealer for flashing cards when they pitch them.
Now that 99.9% of printing is digital, there is no good reason not to use four distinct colors, besides resistance to progress. I found that when used live, any lingering attachment to the old two-color scheme vanished within just a couple sessions.
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They're ok online, hate them in real life
12thMan
Full House
Absolutely love them online, the only way to go. IRL I prefer two color.
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
Are you arguing about 4 color decks? Or the metric system?
On the issue of four color decks, I really see it as a solution without a problem, FOR MOST PEOPLE (you guys with bad eyes that sit at the edge of the table, I'm not talking to you. Same for you guys who insist on playing in a room without sufficient light).
Remember Poker Peeks? Those were an innovation, but not necessarily an improvement.
Nex
Flush
By the same logic:
You could of course also always play with regular sized index cards on a huge table.
Yet, large indices make for easier reading in such a setting.
No, you don't need them. But they make things easier.
The poker mind games and calculating probabilities at the table is enough work already. Why needlessly add more work to that? Especially with groups who play poker purely for fun, I'd expect they would want to cancel out as many encumbrances around the subject as possible so they can enjoy the actual play more. Probably the same reason why lots of folks here like high end clay chips: They are nicer to work with, less effort, feel better. They take away a negative aspect you'd have with junky chips.
Four color decks are an improvement in dimly lit venues, for people with less than perfect eyesight... and probably in general for anyone who accidentally misread a flush.
You could of course also always play with regular sized index cards on a huge table.
Yet, large indices make for easier reading in such a setting.
No, you don't need them. But they make things easier.
The poker mind games and calculating probabilities at the table is enough work already. Why needlessly add more work to that? Especially with groups who play poker purely for fun, I'd expect they would want to cancel out as many encumbrances around the subject as possible so they can enjoy the actual play more. Probably the same reason why lots of folks here like high end clay chips: They are nicer to work with, less effort, feel better. They take away a negative aspect you'd have with junky chips.
Four color decks are an improvement in dimly lit venues, for people with less than perfect eyesight... and probably in general for anyone who accidentally misread a flush.
cosmokramer
Pair
As said before: hate them, online, and even more live. All my crew does as well
Tried for one rotation, threw them away to stop all the complaining.
Are you arguing about 4 color decks? Or the metric system?
On the issue of four color decks, I really see it as a solution without a problem, FOR MOST PEOPLE (you guys with bad eyes that sit at the edge of the table, I'm not talking to you. Same for you guys who insist on playing in a room without sufficient light).
Remember Poker Peeks? Those were an innovation, but not necessarily an improvement.
What is the rationale for two colors, then? If it makes so little difference, why not one color? Or three?
madforpancakes
Straight
I am all about 4 color decks, so that is what is in play 95% of the time at my game. I used to have a couple 4 color complainers, but they have gotten used to it.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
what if it is broke?
I’d argue it is broke, but people are so used to the design flaw that they have accepted it.
We are still using something which was designed around technical limitations which no longer exist. It would be like still using a 2G flip phone or first gen iMac because it still “works.”
This is a well-known phenomenon regarding redesigns. For example, in the past 10-15 years, a lot of newspapers updated the look of their front pages, which had been the same since the 1970s or even earlier. The advent of digital graphic design allowed for a lot more choices, options and flexibility than had been possible before, and papers were eager to embrace these.
No matter how much better the new design was—clearer, cleaner, more organized—there would always be 1/4-1/3rd of readers who hated it. They “just liked” the old look. They could not justify their view, except on the basis of hidebound adherence to what was familiar.
But within a few months everyone forgets the old look. And if the paper were to change their design again, the same percentage of readers would complain.
Same thing for cereal boxes, soup cans, etc.
This is not to say that all new designs are better. Sometimes new tools and tech generate bad design, too. But that’s not a reason to resist obvious improvements.
So if PCF had existed 50, 100, or 150 years ago, I am sure that some people would have decried the advent of newfangled stuff like corner indices, or clay composites, or edgespots, or (later) automatic card shufflers, or hole cameras, or speedcloth.
I mean, what was wrong with playing with scrimshaw chips? THEY JUST WORKED
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
Black and Red were the cheapest printing inks back in the day.
https://www.jungleerummy.com/blog/why-playing-cards-are-red-and-black-in-color/
This story may be short on citation, but it seems as reasonable of an explanation as any.
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WedgeRock
Royal Flush
The improvement from scrimshaw chips to clay chips is markedly different than the "improvement" from 2 color decks to 4 color decks.
davislane
Straight Flush
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whats everyones favourite 4 colour deck? photos please. So far I have tried copag, faded spade and desijn. I haven't been sold on any of them as yet.
I find it very interesting that there is a sizable subset of members that prefer 4-colour online yet are exclusively 2-colour live.
Nex
Flush
I have so far checked out Copag (the one that gets sold as a double setup in a plastic box, with two jumbo indices, not four) and Modiano.
Modiano as always stiff and slippery junk. (Hello again OOC thread!)
The Copags get somewhat close to the properties I'm after, but they smell like burnt fireworks and I just don't like the font they're using for the indices... something seems off about it.
Most other 4-color options I've seen had 4 corner indices which is a no-no for me. Too much unneeded text on a card distracts from reading them, especially as part of the board.
Modiano as always stiff and slippery junk. (Hello again OOC thread!)
The Copags get somewhat close to the properties I'm after, but they smell like burnt fireworks and I just don't like the font they're using for the indices... something seems off about it.
Most other 4-color options I've seen had 4 corner indices which is a no-no for me. Too much unneeded text on a card distracts from reading them, especially as part of the board.
Apparently sarcasm is lost on some of y’all
LeLe
4 of a Kind
Bought 4 colour deck before, Used Once in a poker game and after 15 minutes everyone complain about it and had to change it back to 2 colour
Never again that deck see anymore action after that
Never again that deck see anymore action after that
That’s not giving it enough time. For the first 15 minutes you’re only going to hear from reactionaries who can’t stand anything changing.
It’s like kids under the age of 6 being introduced to a new food. They are going to say “no” and “yuck” at first, automatically.
LeLe
4 of a Kind
I agree with your statement but it hard with my group I try to use it one more in another session and they rejected straight away
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
If anybody has played with 4-color and finds it unusable after a single game, PM me and I will pay shipping to take them off your hands.
You'd have to give it a lot more time to try than 1 orbit, or even 1 night. If all poker players complained about playing non-NLHE games for the first 15 minutes, would you never introduce new games for any group of players again?
LeLe
4 of a Kind
I think I need to clarify they Start complaining about it after 15 min, we didnt change it right away after 15 min, but we do change it during halfway of the session when we having a smoke / toilet break
blackshirts5115
Waiting List
Very old comment but wanted to echo your echo. I can't count how many times I've noticed players fail to see the flush possibility on the board and therefore overvalue their weaker hand. I also did it on occasion when I played only a few times a year before I took poker seriously. Using a four-color deck would make it easy for the newbies/inattentives/intoxicated to notice the three suited cards out there.
On the other hand, when they aren't aware of a possible flush it makes it harder to bluff them off their top pair on the river
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