Why has faded spade always felt like a con? Maybe I just hate marketing. (3 Viewers)

[Old State]

Just seeing this thread. I always thought there was something off putting and disingenuous about them but bought a deck anyway. I’m perpetually in search of playing card perfection.

The initial turn off was the marketing theme “these cards have taken the poker world by storm and all the pros are using them”. May work for the casual Joe, but people (like this community) aren’t easily duped in that many of us know all the card companies and knew they hadn’t taken anything by storm. They were brand new.

Then you see them on TV (but not in casinos). How did that happen?….you may ask. Well knowing how all products get placed…they were giving them away for free to get exposure. It’s like Wilson and Rawlings going back and forth over the years as the “official glove of the MLB”. It’s not because one is better than the other…it’s because one gave the MLB more money. All the players get their gloves for free anyway …. as many as they want.

But with FS (unlike Rawling and Wilson)…the product isn’t comparable. Many people found them to be really bad. This basically confirmed the BS you suspected.

Their market was never “we have a new product please give it a try” it was “everyone who is everyone knows these are the best cards on the market and you are way behind”….when it’s was obvious to the target audience this was a total lie.

 

[RagahRagah]

It didn’t feel appropriate to address this in the 3.0 release thread, so here we are.
I should say at the outset that I’ve never handled faded spades as far as I know. I only buy cards at the top of the flexiness scale, and everything I’ve read about faded spade suggests they’re not that. So I don’t know much about their product.

But faded spade has always felt like this to me: a couple of hustling type guys decided maybe they could hustle this industry. Because you don’t need to create a better product, you just need to attract the most attention. So, create a product that stands out a bit, and market the hell out of it, and profit. Because we’re all dummies. If you put a different looking card in a cool looking box, get some of the biggest high stakes streams to use them and then do some social media marketing (don’t even need to break the baank there - how much do you have to spend on marketing to leave KEM, Copag, Modiano and bicycle in the dust) we’ll buy them.
And from everything I’ve read, the 1.0 release was a pretty significantly flawed product. But that wasn’t a big setback for them, because the product didn’t matter, they were just selling the brand. So they made some tweaks to the 2.0 and again to the 3.0 - who cares - they can tweak it the whole nine yards and it doesn’t affect the product at all, because the product actually IS the brand. Keep the brand exiting and visible and people will keep buying. Doesn’t really matter how good or how bad they feel, because you’ve got FADED SPADE with the cool weird face cards like they’re using on the Hustler stream and High Stakes Poker.

Anyway, I’m curious to see what other people think. I can’t imagine I’m alone on this take, but I don’t feel like I’ve seen it discussed much, if at all. And with all the attention the 3.0 release got (the most excitement I’ve seen here over cards, outside of a desjgn release) it seems like the right time to bring it up.

Feel like this entire post could apply exactly the same way to Kem, lol. Just using a card of the exact opposite end of the thickness scale.

 

[Venturalvn]

Started with 3.0 and have had no issues through 50+ hours of play across two setups.

With regards to them not being able to replace single cards - it seems they WILL replace single cards if they have current stock. It's likely the reason they are offering discounts on V3 setups is because people are asking for replacements on V2 cards, which are no longer in production or in stock.

In any case, I've had decades of issues with KEM and COPAG - also the "standard casino cards". I don't see a difference in having issues with yet another brand.

 

[upNdown]

Feel like this entire post could apply exactly the same way to Kem, lol. Just using a card of the exact opposite end of the thickness scale.

I’m beginning to get the feeling that you don’t like Kems.
Ha.
I think it’s worth mentioning that my attitude towards cards has changed since becoming a regular host over a year ago. And I think I mentioned it in this thread somewhere, but when I finally got the chance to play with faded spades, they were fine.
In my earlier PCF years when I rarely hosted, and then in the Covid years when there was no hosting, judging cards became a hobby. Line up a few decks, riffle them, riffle them, maybe pitch a few fakey hands, gather them up and shuffle again. It’s easy to judge and say these ones are so much better than those ones.

But fast forward to 2023 upNdown, regular host, and I have to tell you that the differences matter much less to me. When you’re passing the deck and only handling the cards once every 6-8 hands, the subtle differences practically disappear. No, I don’t love stiff cards, but some of my players do. Yeah I used to think it was worth paying a big premium for the perfect texture. But now, meh.
As long as my players can shuffle a deck without it exploding, and as long as they gather well after the hand I’m pretty good with any setup.

 

[RagahRagah]

I’m beginning to get the feeling that you don’t like Kems.
Ha.
I think it’s worth mentioning that my attitude towards cards has changed since becoming a regular host over a year ago. And I think I mentioned it in this thread somewhere, but when I finally got the chance to play with faded spades, they were fine.
In my earlier PCF years when I rarely hosted, and then in the Covid years when there was no hosting, judging cards became a hobby. Line up a few decks, riffle them, riffle them, maybe pitch a few fakey hands, gather them up and shuffle again. It’s easy to judge and say these ones are so much better than those ones.

But fast forward to 2023 upNdown, regular host, and I have to tell you that the differences matter much less to me. When you’re passing the deck and only handling the cards once every 6-8 hands, the subtle differences practically disappear. No, I don’t love stiff cards, but some of my players do. Yeah I used to think it was worth paying a big premium for the perfect texture. But now, meh.
As long as my players can shuffle a deck without it exploding, and as long as they gather well after the hand I’m pretty good with any setup.

To be fair, all cards have some issues. I realize that. We all have our preferences.

But as consistently as Kem have warpong issues, I do find the OP ironic coming off that discussion recently, lol

 

[upNdown]

To be fair, all cards have some issues. I realize that. We all have our preferences.

But as consistently as Kem have warpong issues, I do find the OP ironic coming off that discussion recently, lol

I don’t see any irony. The OP was about faded spade coming on the scene and telling the world they were the best, with no substance behind it. Kem, on the other hand, I don’t think I’ve ever seen any marketing from them at all, ever. And yet they still command the highest price and live in every casino poker room that I’ve been to.
If you want to argue that Kem rides its reputation like faded spade rides it’s agressive marketing, okay. It’s not quite the same, but close enough I suppose. So feel free to start a poll. Ask the masses if they’d rather have a setup of KEMs or Faded Spades. I’m betting KEMs would win by better than 60/40, but I’m always willing to be surprised.

 

[RagahRagah]

I don’t see any irony. The OP was about faded spade coming on the scene and telling the world they were the best, with no substance behind it. Kem, on the other hand, I don’t think I’ve ever seen any marketing from them at all, ever. And yet they still command the highest price and live in every casino poker room that I’ve been to.
If you want to argue that Kem rides its reputation like faded spade rides it’s agressive marketing, okay. It’s not quite the same, but close enough I suppose. So feel free to start a poll. Ask the masses if they’d rather have a setup of KEMs or Faded Spades. I’m betting KEMs would win by better than 60/40, but I’m always willing to be surprised.

As was said, marketing is pretty much a given. And it's easily arguable the cards are worth it; obviously plenty of people love them.

Meanwhile, Kem are extremely notorious for also having a consistent defect. Pretty ironic.

 

[DMack]

Meanwhile, FADED SPADED are extremely notorious for also having a consistent defect. Pretty ironic.

FYP

 

[Josh Kifer]

Just plain terrible cards. Terrible terrible terrible.

 

[RagahRagah]

FYP

Can't fix a post with redundancy, lmao.

 

[Old State]

The problem I’ve had with the brand (separate from my personal dislike of the actual product) is the BS. They have been making the same grandiose claims of market penetration since they first came out. Anyone who plays cards in any major casino ..then and now…know you are FAR more likely to see Kems than FS. After Kem maybe Gemaco Superflex….but Kem still dominated the market no mater what your opinion of the product is.

Years ago they claimed Borgata switched to them but when I went to the casino Kems were in play. Then I heard (not confirmed) they dumped them.

The reality is that outside payed product placement I don’t think the industry has taken to them. I could be wrong….are the any confirmed long term usage in major AC, Vegas, etc casinos? I’m not talking some random card room in Minnesota or something

 

[surfik]

About Faded Spade:

- they offer well designed grafics
- as one of two companies worldwide they produce RDFI cards (at least to my knowledge)
- they fairly new on the market, they still learning, changes in versions are the results of changes in printing partners (as far as I know they do not own they own printing facillities
- Kem are almost 100 years in bussines and currently in my humble opinion in decline (more and more evidence in differences in quality of casino vs consumer versions)
- FS reminds me of Desjgn but on much bigger scale

I do hope they do well, it is good to have a choice.

 

[raynmanas]

Just plain terrible cards. Terrible terrible terrible.

i played with faded spades for the first time (that i am aware of anyway) this weekend, having no idea what they were, and i loved the way they felt - perfect stiffness i thought. particularly when i moved to the other table which was using copags, and those just suddenly felt soooo floppy (at home i usually use copags). i knew i had heard of them when i made a mental note of what brand they were, but i know nothing about their marketing issues or whatever is being discussed here. they look good and feel great, so that makes me want to buy a setup for myself.

 

[cpac54]

I didn't have the chance to use any of the earlier versions (maybe for the better), but I personally love the version 3.0s. No better looking card out there from a design perspective (imo) and I quite like the heavier card stock.

I'll still keep using other brands, but more choices is always a welcome thing in my books.

 

[Josh Kifer]

i played with faded spades for the first time (that i am aware of anyway) this weekend, having no idea what they were, and i loved the way they felt - perfect stiffness i thought. particularly when i moved to the other table which was using copags, and those just suddenly felt soooo floppy (at home i usually use copags). i knew i had heard of them when i made a mental note of what brand they were, but i know nothing about their marketing issues or whatever is being discussed here. they look good and feel great, so that makes me want to buy a setu

Just know you might only get a few plays on them before they split and are unusable. All of my setups split within 5-7 games.

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

Just know you might only get a few plays on them before they split and are unusable. All of my setups split within 5-7 games.

Never used version 1.0. Version 2.0 were pretty slippery but at the end of their run they came out with what I call version 2.5. (Purple/green setup) They feel just like the texture of the 3.0's that came out shortly after.

I know I shouldn't say this because I believe in "the jinx" BUT I've had 0 issues with this deck & its lasted a few years. Definitely had it before Covid.

Now maybe it's because I've always had my players clean their hands before use or I use a shuffletech. I don't know. I do know I salt & pepper other brands in to my games just to switch it up and some show wear with a lot fewer "miles" on them. And get marked SUPER easy like Copag.

I'm an anti-hype/marketing guy and these cards are still by far my favorite & it's not even close.

My only negative is that they don't come in a Full Bleed version...

 

[Josh Kifer]

Never used version 1.0. Version 2.0 were pretty slippery but at the end of their run they came out with what I call version 2.5. (Purple/green setup) They feel just like the texture of the 3.0's that came out shortly after.

I know I shouldn't say this because I believe in "the jinx" BUT I've had 0 issues with this deck & its lasted a few years. Definitely had it before Covid.

Now maybe it's because I've always had my players clean their hands before use or I use a shuffletech. I don't know. I do know I salt & pepper other brands in to my games just to switch it up and some show wear with a lot fewer "miles" on them. And get marked SUPER easy like Copag.

I'm an anti-hype/marketing guy and these cards are still by far my favorite & it's not even close.

My only negative is that they don't come in a Full Bleed version...

We had two decks split within 5 minutes at COTS. My other set has cards starting to split. Just sayin.

 

[cpac54]

We had two decks split within 5 minutes at COTS. My other set has cards starting to split. Just sayin.

That's brutal. You're using version 3.0?

 

[Josh Kifer]

That's brutal. You're using version 3.0?

Pretty sure 2.0. maybe 2.5. but not 3

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

We had two decks split within 5 minutes at COTS. My other set has cards starting to split. Just sayin.

TOTALLY believe you but if you've had that happen before why would you go with them again? Auto shuffler?

 

[JMC9389]

It's not that I don't like the feel of the Faded Spades. I just happen to think the quality of the stock stinks. The V1's are the worst quality cards I've ever had. The V2's felt much better to the point of overcorrection but have splitting issues. The V3's are back to the V1 nonsense of bowing and warping with minimal use.

 

[Josh Kifer]

TOTALLY believe you but if you've had that happen before why would you go with them again? Auto shuffler?

These were always hand shuffled..bought two setups (one poker, one bridge) at the same time to test. One setup, both split. Other setup both starting to split. Won't buy ever again.

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

These were always hand shuffled..bought two setups (one poker, one bridge) at the same time to test. One setup, both split. Other setup both starting to split. Won't buy ever again.

I've heard of others with this problem & what I thought was complete BS was FS only replaced the split cards & not the whole deck. (Or at least that's the story I heard) Please look on the box for what version it was when you have a minute & get back to me/I'm curious. Did you try to have them replaced or just not worth the time & effort?

 

[Josh Kifer]

I've heard of others with this problem & what I thought was complete BS was FS only replaced the split cards & not the whole deck. (Or at least that's the story I heard) Please look on the box for what version it was when you have a minute & get back to me/I'm curious. Did you try to have them replaced or just not worth the time & effort?

I can check tonight. @Racer96 can confirm, he shuffled and found the first split.

It's so many cards that would need to be replaced, I just tossed them aside. It's not like random decks isn't my strong suit from my card buy. Still got a pile of those in use.

 

[surfik]

Never used version 1.0. Version 2.0 were pretty slippery but at the end of their run they came out with what I call version 2.5. (Purple/green setup) They feel just like the texture of the 3.0's that came out shortly after.

I know I shouldn't say this because I believe in "the jinx" BUT I've had 0 issues with this deck & its lasted a few years. Definitely had it before Covid.

Now maybe it's because I've always had my players clean their hands before use or I use a shuffletech. I don't know. I do know I salt & pepper other brands in to my games just to switch it up and some show wear with a lot fewer "miles" on them. And get marked SUPER easy like Copag.

I'm an anti-hype/marketing guy and these cards are still by far my favorite & it's not even close.

My only negative is that they don't come in a Full Bleed version...

Not much choice in the full bleed department these days...

 

[Buge]

The 3.0 FS should not be splitting as they are a single sheet according to their website. If anyone has had splitting on the 3.0s please post it

 

[RocAFella1]

I can check tonight. @Racer96 can confirm, he shuffled and found the first split.

It's so many cards that would need to be replaced, I just tossed them aside. It's not like random decks isn't my strong suit from my card buy. Still got a pile of those in use.

That was me boss. First shuffle of the meetup and boom banana split.

 

[DMack]

I've heard of others with this problem & what I thought was complete BS was FS only replaced the split cards & not the whole deck. (Or at least that's the story I heard) Please look on the box for what version it was when you have a minute & get back to me/I'm curious. Did you try to have them replaced or just not worth the time & effort?

Multiple split cards here. I tried to have them replaced, but their customer service is beyond pathetic. My hardly used setups are now unusable.

 

[allforcharity]

Just know you might only get a few plays on them before they split and are unusable. All of my setups split within 5-7 games.

No shit, really? Which version?

 

[moose]

- Kem are almost 100 years in bussines and currently in my humble opinion in decline (more and more evidence in differences in quality of casino vs consumer versions)

Nope. They went out of business. USPC bought the name and produces an entirely different card which is shit.