Why I tip more, and why you should too (2 Viewers)

[Coyote]

First of all, sure, wages should suffice for the workforce without any fuckin tips. Not the case, but this is a political discussion.
Given the real situation of inedaqueate wages, still the healthy form of tipping would be upon cash-out.
Tipping on each hand, without even knowing if you 're going to be an eventual winner or loser is plain gross.
In Swiss hospitals, there is a box dedicated to tips for the nurses (and they make more than most European civil servants)
Edit: but no personal tip is ever accepted; it's bribery.

 

[Taghkanic]

Tipping on each hand, without even knowing if you 're going to be an eventual winner or loser is plain gross.

Say nine players buy in to a cash game for $1,000 each.

They play 400 hands.

The chips move back and forth. Stacks grow and dwindle and grow again.

By the end of the game, everyone is back to their original $1,000.

The dealer should get nothing because no one was a winner?

 

[Coyote]

Say nine players buy in to a cash game for $1,000 each.

They play 400 hands.

The chips move back and forth. Stacks grow and dwindle and grow again.

By the end of the game, everyone is back to their original $1,000.

The dealer should get nothing because no one made a profit?

Extremely rare scenario, but in that case the host should pay a reasonable remuneration, estimated by the hour.
Among friends (i.e. home game, NOT underground game), it's guaranteed that other players would volunteer to contribute.

 

[Eriks]

I don’t mind tipping extra for a well provided service. I just oppose the whole mandatory: ”they don’t make enough and it’s the only decent thing to do”-system. WTF, I didn’t hire them. Pay your employees, you greedy bastards!

 

[rustycheerio]

20%?!? On a jackpot? Then the gov takes 40%

I tip big but only a dealer who starts a thread saying to tip more would say 20% bro lol

where i play they don't do taxes on small jackpots.

 

[Budha]

I don’t mind tipping extra for a well provided service. I just oppose the whole mandatory: ”they don’t make enough and it’s the only decent thing to do”-system. WTF, I didn’t hire them. Pay your employees, you greedy bastards!

Totally agree with the first part, however not sure I agree with 2nd part. If I may offer a counter perspective.

The labor market will generally allocate a “value” to the work or skill (based on availability of that skill vs need for those skills).

In general, jobs that include tips as part of the overall income are generally not high skill occupations. Think electrician vs waiter, dealer, etc. The level of training is vastly different.

With this mind, the inclusion of tips allows say a waiter or dealer to make above (potentially significantly) what those skills are otherwise rationally worth in the labor market, all things considered (compare licensed master electrician vs waiter). IE: The customer may value specialized, friendly service and be willing to pay an above mkt rate for it.

Take away tips, and generally the market will set the wage for those jobs well below what they currently can make with tips.

 

[Eriks]

Totally agree with the first part, however not sure I agree with 2nd part. If I may offer a counter perspective.

The labor market will generally allocate a “value” to the work or skill (based on availability of that skill vs need for those skills).

In general, jobs that include tips as part of the overall income are generally not high skill occupations. Think electrician vs waiter, dealer, etc. The level of training is vastly different.

With this mind, the inclusion of tips allows say a waiter or dealer to make above (potentially significantly) what those skills are otherwise rationally worth in the labor market, all things considered (compare licensed master electrician vs waiter). IE: The customer may value specialized, friendly service and be willing to pay an above mkt rate for it.

Take away tips, and generally the market will set the wage for those jobs well below what they currently can make with tips.

I know how it works over there, I just don’t agree that that’s a good system.

 

[Budha]

I know how it works over there, I just don’t agree that that’s a good system.

Yeah I hear ya. I think in reality though, all things considered. They would end up making less without tips, which is counter to the over all argument of “just pay them a living wage”.

Interesting though, when we were just in Italy we learned you can’t order from the counter and then sit at a table (coffee, snack, gelato, etc). The prices are different as they include table service in the price when you sit.

Is it the same in Sweden?

 

[Eriks]

Yeah I hear ya. I think in reality though, all things considered. They would end up making less without tips, which is counter to the over all argument of “just pay them a living wage”.

I’m not saying ban tips, I just don’t like being expected to automatically make up for 20% of their wages.

Interesting though, when we were just in Italy we learned you can’t order from the counter and then sit at a table (coffee, snack, gelato, etc). The prices are different as they include table service in the price when you sit.

Is it the same in Sweden?

I wouldn’t say so, although there might be exceptions.

 

[ekricket]

We're in America sir we're talking about this fucked up Country America. Again there's a reason why Europe doesn't suck the way we do here

I hear this a lot from people that would never leave here.
There's nothing keeping you here unless you are some kind of international criminal.

The prices are different as they include table service in the price when you sit.

Is it the same in Sweden?

I wouldn’t say so, although there might be exceptions.

I think we got hit with this twice while we were there, pizza joint once and a burger place once. Places where sitting is optional.
But nothing we weren’t used to so it was fine. We still tipped on top of the table charge.

 

[Budha]

I think we got hit with this twice while we were there, pizza joint once and a burger place once. Places where sitting is optional.
But nothing we weren’t used to so it was fine. We still tipped on top of the table charge.

Same, we probably way over tipped but we had some really good servers that gave great recommendations, etc. it was an awesome trip.

We got chastised in a gelato joint, of all places - lol. I was like WTF, of course I ordered from the counter, how else would I know what flavor I wanted

I was surprised they had table service, we just assumed it was counter service.

Edit: Surprisingly, the restaurants were cheaper than here in the Dallas area. Noticeably cheaper, which we did not expect.

 

[krw17]

The reason I compare these unlike things is to show that, as corporations price-gouge to infinity, employers are forced to pay more for non-tipped labor but not for tipped labor. Instead they, as usual, pressure the customers. Why do you think the standard tip for restaurants has rapidly grown from 10% to 15% to 20% and now on its way to 25%? They will keep pushing it as long as it keeps working.

If it stops working—which it will, eventually, unless there's a never-ending parade of people willing to pay 25%, no 30%, no wait 50%, on everything—businesses will be forced to come up with a better system. This is also the case if poker players keep tipping only $1 per pot, as has been customary for ages. Bumping that per-pot tip up only enables casinos to continue underpaying their staff while they take advantage of people's generosity.

You're falling back on an awful lot of "always" and "never" here, and I just can't get on board with that thinking. Things change. We shouldn't ever assume that they way things are now is permanent.

This is exactly what I never could figure out..... as inflation increased the cost of our good purchased - which would have ultimately increased the size of the tip because it is a % after all! - why have the expected tip percentages ALSO risen? I've seen "suggested tip" amounts as high as 30% printed on my receipts.

 

[Jimulacrum]

This is exactly what I never could figure out..... as inflation increased the cost of our good purchased - which would have ultimately increased the size of the tip because it is a % after all! - why have the expected tip percentages ALSO risen? I've seen "suggested tip" amounts as high as 30% printed on my receipts.

It's just like the taxes. Just like the rent prices and food prices and so much else.

They will keep pushing the number higher as long as they think it still has room to grow.

To one side of this equation, it's smart business. To the other side it's an out-of-control avalanche of expenses that keep growing.

 

[btbmason]

Honestly didn’t read a lot of this thread, but I had a conversation with a table games dealer at a casino the other day and they said with their base pay + tips (and no overtime) that their average hourly is barely below what I make at my salaried job. This is obviously different than poker dealers since they pool tips.

I have a friend in Texas who deals at a poker club as well as private games, and he makes significantly more than that table games dealer.

Not sure what my point here is. Maybe @Tommy can add a feature to tip someone when they make a good post here. I mean I’d still be broke, but other people would probably do pretty well.

 

[Taghkanic]

Honestly didn’t read a lot of this thread, but I had a conversation with a table games dealer at a casino the other day and they said with their base pay + tips (and no overtime) that their average hourly is barely below what I make at my salaried job.

Just to be clear... Do you disagree with them making almost as much as you?

Meanwhile, what kind of vacation, sick days and benefits and retirement plans do dealers get? (My sense is that a fair number of them are part-time.)

My sense is that dealing cards is a pretty intense and skilled job. Dealers are essentially “on stage” for the whole time they are at a table. They have to be hyperattentive throughout their sessions. And they often come in for abuse from their clientele.

 

[btbmason]

Just to be clear... Do you disagree with them making almost as much as you?

Meanwhile, what kind of vacation, sick days and benefits and retirement plans do dealers get? (My sense is that a fair number of them are part-time.)

My sense is that dealing cards is a pretty intense and skilled job. Dealers are essentially “on stage” for the whole time they are at a table. They have to be hyperattentive throughout their sessions. And they often come in for abuse from their clientele.

I think pooling tips at table games is flawed for good dealers. The worst dealer makes the same as the best dealer. I’ve had some great dealers and some nightmare dealers, as I’m sure we all have.

This particular dealer was average, but very nice, and also had been dealing for approximately 6 months, works full-time, and is eligible for benefits. I had been considering a career change which is why I was asking questions. I’m considered average at most things in life, so I like to find the median.

My poker dealing friend is a great dealer, and extremely personable as well as knowledgeable. I have no idea on the benefits portion, but I don’t live in Texas so this isn’t a real option or direct comparison. More just curiosity of how much really he brings in as part of a tipping environment.

I’m not saying either should make less money. I absolutely think I should make more money (at my specific job, not more than them specifically), but that’s a separate conversation.

I think a lot of people fall into the mindset of, “We need to tip them a ton because they don’t make a lot of money” or “They rely on these tips because their base rate is so low.” I’m not arguing to tip less, or to bring them down, or that “I should make more money”, just something for me to think about when proceeding with my own life.

 

[rustycheerio]

Honestly didn’t read a lot of this thread, but I had a conversation with a table games dealer at a casino the other day and they said with their base pay + tips (and no overtime) that their average hourly is barely below what I make at my salaried job. This is obviously different than poker dealers since they pool tips.

I have a friend in Texas who deals at a poker club as well as private games, and he makes significantly more than that table games dealer.

Not sure what my point here is. Maybe @Tommy can add a feature to tip someone when they make a good post here. I mean I’d still be broke, but other people would probably do pretty well.

yes it varies by room and state.
some places pool tips for all poker dealers, some dealers keep their own. some places (very few) keep their own for table games, etc.
also generally speaking if you have a very well run private game, and a great dealer, they could average upwards of 4-6x their normal hourly compared to dealing regularly at a poker room or casino.
this is of course depending on the seriousness, and the stakes of the private game. but i have heard of dealers making an outrageous amount of money thru the private avenue.

 

[rustycheerio]

I think pooling tips at table games is flawed for good dealers. The worst dealer makes the same as the best dealer. I’ve had some great dealers and some nightmare dealers, as I’m sure we all have.

This particular dealer was average, but very nice, and also had been dealing for approximately 6 months, works full-time, and is eligible for benefits. I had been considering a career change which is why I was asking questions. I’m considered average at most things in life, so I like to find the median.

My poker dealing friend is a great dealer, and extremely personable as well as knowledgeable. I have no idea on the benefits portion, but I don’t live in Texas so this isn’t a real option or direct comparison. More just curiosity of how much really he brings in as part of a tipping environment.

I’m not saying either should make less money. I absolutely think I should make more money (at my specific job, not more than them specifically), but that’s a separate conversation.

I think a lot of people fall into the mindset of, “We need to tip them a ton because they don’t make a lot of money” or “They rely on these tips because their base rate is so low.” I’m not arguing to tip less, or to bring them down, or that “I should make more money”, just something for me to think about when proceeding with my own life.

my argument exactly, against pooling tips.
if a dealer is extremely efficient, personable, and friendly they should be making more then the most incompetent dealer in the room, not the same.
otherwise there's no incentive to be a good dealer.

 

[doublebooyah85]

my argument exactly, against pooling tips.
if a dealer is extremely efficient, personable, and friendly they should be making more then the most incompetent dealer in the room, not the same.
otherwise there's no incentive to be a good dealer.

It’s almost like socialism vs capitalism

 

[BGinGA]

It’s almost like socialism vs capitalism

No, it's exactly like socialism vs capitalism.

Same problems, too. No incentive for the bad apples to become better, and no incentive for the good apples to do their best (or go above and beyond the minimum). Everyone suffers, except the inept who shouldn't be doing the job in the first place.

Pooled tips in any environment is a flawed idea. There's no way to financially weed out the bad operators and reward the good ones.