LeLe
4 of a Kind
i not surprised as they constantly market their chips (plastic slugged and china clay) at their website as clay or hint the chips as clay which will mislead any non chipper thinking they are clay
Have Chinese cards mold replica sets gone too far? (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter aggie
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I’m going to assume the “Paulson” in that listing is a mistake. As far as using the word clay on their website, they’re kind of in a tough spot. If the entire cheap chip industry calls their plastic chips “clay composite” or whatever, what’s Apache suppsed to do? Take the high road, call them plastic and sell none of them?
I’m guessing that’s just an error. It looks like all of their auctions have that modifier, whether they’re Paulsons or not. Probably used the option to list an item based on a previous auction, so it retains all the info. No excuse, but likely a oversight.
Or SEO?
Bluegrass Poker
Flush
I hope that is it. But I see way too many non-Paulson eBay ads put Paulson in the description to get more views n
Depends entirely on whether or not they want their sales text to be factual and accurate or false and misleading.
When a new member here posts about (or attempts to sell) plastic chips while referring to them as clay, we have no issues with correcting and educating them otherwise.
Apache shouldn't get a pass, either. He knows better.
Some eBay sellers (myself included) use saved templates to make it easier to list new items. It would be very easy for someone to fill in the particulars of an item and miss some of the existing words in the template. It just requires taking the time and attention to double check everything. I can easily see how such a mistake could be made if one were in a hurry.
I wonder who this guy is, and if he has the rights to Tikis. Or “Skeleton series.”
For those of you think I’m just shouting at clouds, here’s my problem with these (aside from the obvious IP theft.) We sit here on PCF and rave about how good bropoker’s blanks are. We’ll talk about how we all love the feel of DDLMs. So somebody buys fake DDLMs from this guy, finds his way to PCF, end up selling his garbage Chinese knockoff DDLMs in our classifieds without even knowing he’s selling knockoff shit, and some unwitting buyer grabs them and then he’s stuck with crap that we all told him was great.
For those of you think I’m just shouting at clouds, here’s my problem with these (aside from the obvious IP theft.) We sit here on PCF and rave about how good bropoker’s blanks are. We’ll talk about how we all love the feel of DDLMs. So somebody buys fake DDLMs from this guy, finds his way to PCF, end up selling his garbage Chinese knockoff DDLMs in our classifieds without even knowing he’s selling knockoff shit, and some unwitting buyer grabs them and then he’s stuck with crap that we all told him was great.
Manufacturer tags for classifieds would be great. I think it'd be possible with the new classifieds system that Tommy is working on.
Similar thought here. https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/have-we-finally-reached-market-saturation.103252/post-2251817
Bluegrass Poker
Flush
Very well said sir.
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It's a "Won't Somebody Think of the Children!?" moment.
Does this affect you or I? Nope.
But fast forward about 15-20 years, and I'm guessing that all the non-paulson/non other top tier purchases will be a crapshoot and the prices between real/fake will all average out.
We're already at over .50 a chip for Justin Tina chips, and their impact was that solid RHC/THC paulsons are sitting at $2 and not flying off the shelf.
I don't know or care what the long term affects are hobby wide, but at the very least I think everyone can agree that the whole bottom tier of chips will be one large amalgam and almost noone here will be buying new from ABC or BR.
-I'm not complaining one bit. It's natural progress and sure comes with some interesting side effects and issues. Will be interesting to see.
Perhaps my opinions are in the minority, but I don't think that the rise of CM copy chips are necessarily a really bad thing. With our hobby growing as fast as it is, and there being a finite amount of Paulson clay chips in the wild, perhaps it's a good thing that there's a new, cheaper option to help balance out the supply issues. Imagine if CM didn't exist and our hobby kept growing at the pace that it's growing at. It would be extremely difficult to purchase the chips that were once easy enough to acquire only a few years ago.
Lots of people here also think that fraud is going to be on the rise. You can clearly tell the difference between CM chips and the real deal. Does that mean I'm happy about Tina copying RHC? Definitely not. But I also don't think it's going to confuse people because they are clearly different from real Paulsons.
And to your point about not buying from ABC or BRP anymore. Well, there have been numerous reports that the Tina chips simply don't hold up over time. Perhaps it's only affecting certain molds, but the quality issues are definitely a concern. I don't think they have ever really been a concern for the ones coming from BRP. And don't even get me started on the dye sublimation consistency issues that we've seen coming out of Tina/Anita. And again, I'm sure that these are isolated to certain colors and certain molds (CM Red, Im looking at you), but my point is that there are definitely pros and cons to Tina.
At the end of the day this is coming from somebody who has both vintage paulson, BRP, and recent Tina chips and I think they each have a place in my chip cabinets.
ngmcs8203
Flush
Can you point me to some? I'm now curious as I wait for my first TINA shipment.
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I don't think a bad thing at all. There's thousands of chip buyers here alone, anything that happens will be bad for some, good for others.
I agree with the rest as well. I def don't think it's a singularly good or bad thing one bit, just a change.
But the confusion? Yeah that'll happen. Maybe I'm the dumbass, but I don't pay attention to this stuff and didn't know JusTinAnita did scrowns. Saw some customs and 100% thought without question they were CPC.
Will people confuse good, solid photos of Paulson THC to current JusTinAnita THCs? No, I think almost 100% not.
Will people confuse the same designed ceramic chips from 45 different manufacturers/alibabas/etc. around the world? Of course, and there's no way to stop that, it's happening off site even without our involvement/purchases.
ngmcs8203
Flush
Agree with this one.
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
Feel like my no molds have developed more spinners as theyre used; low values have a bunch of instability, while the $5s (that I rarely use or shuffle) have 0 spinners. Assume this is from use and quality control. I dont mind spinners much but if its a dealbreaker it should be known.
ngmcs8203
Flush
I wonder why that is.
Rakrul
Straight
I think this will just expand the pie. There's always been demand for <$1 chips and there is competition which is good for the consumer. I remember buying my first non-dice chips from sidepot as Paulson prices were too high. All hobbys need a entry level to ensure new recruits. China has filled that marketspace for years, if not decades.
We had Faux Clays (which is absurd that they just disappeared in a poof of smoke), china clays and now Tina. I'm sure there were many in between. I think (?) I remember Sun-Fly for $0.49 at a period too(?). The quality (of entry level chips) do seem to increase and while we can huff and puff over IPs being stomped left and right - it happens because there's a market demand for it.
Some of the "new recruits" will move up to more expensive chips, be it Sun-Fly, Chipco, Paulson, BRP/ABC, BCC, CPC, all of above and some will be happy with what they have/can afford. It's simple market and demand mechanics. The discussion should really be "Will demand exceed the (high end) market or vice versa"? How we get there is irrelevant, really.
If anything I think the (high end) demand will increase rather then decrease simply because of the quality issues with lower end chips. They function, but they don't give you a chubby (maybe that's just me though).
We had Faux Clays (which is absurd that they just disappeared in a poof of smoke), china clays and now Tina. I'm sure there were many in between. I think (?) I remember Sun-Fly for $0.49 at a period too(?). The quality (of entry level chips) do seem to increase and while we can huff and puff over IPs being stomped left and right - it happens because there's a market demand for it.
Some of the "new recruits" will move up to more expensive chips, be it Sun-Fly, Chipco, Paulson, BRP/ABC, BCC, CPC, all of above and some will be happy with what they have/can afford. It's simple market and demand mechanics. The discussion should really be "Will demand exceed the (high end) market or vice versa"? How we get there is irrelevant, really.
If anything I think the (high end) demand will increase rather then decrease simply because of the quality issues with lower end chips. They function, but they don't give you a chubby (maybe that's just me though).
This 100%. Cheap chips bring people into the hobby. New members here want to know what all the fuss is over real clay Paulsons, CPCs and the many vintage molds, as well as premium ceramics and plastics. Some will always just be satisfied with the cheap chips, but others will want to move up. The demand for premium chips will always grow along with the growth in the numbers of people in the hobby. Now if people start leaving the hobby because there aren't enough low cost options, then that is when prices for premium chips will also drop.
ngmcs8203
Flush
Yep. Those MGM mold chips are going to one day be in my budget but right now? I’ll be fine with my TINA and Apache sets. Maybe if I start playing in some of the local home games and winning, I will be able to afford a real clay chip set.
I'd have to search for it. It's just something that I've noticed cropping up in discussions, especially in conversations. I think for the most part it's only affected people who play with their chips weekly and it's their only set. Those, like me, that rotate them in, haven't seen any degradation yet. But there are definitely threads out there where people mention it. I've heard of spinners and I've heard of the texture on the CM chips just breaking down.
BonScot
Straight Flush
There’s always someone. I ordered my set after playing with the Parks & Rec set at the Stockholm meet-up.
The difference in quality between ABC / BRPro compared to the CM chips was really obvious to me.
Everyone will have different opinions but I think that the ABC / BRPro chips are worth it.
Rakrul
Straight
I ordered some bounty chips from BR Pro and I gotta say I'm impressed with the feel of them. They're far better than any ceramics I've handled, including Chipco and Sun-Fly. At $2/chip for customs they're a bit too expensive for me though as I'm not a fan of ceramics, but if I were... They're basically the Paulson of ceramics.
I also love my BR Pro Chips, I have a set of semi custom DDLMs that were my first upgrade over dice chips, and they’re just totally awesome. Great quality.
I do believe in the future I could totally order from BR Pro again, despite being a Tina customer, and even custom, too - just have to wait to have a design I want without aligned edge spots.
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So the point was an affordable chip option.
One real question, why are these .50 a piece. We're ordering well into tens and hundreds of thousands of chips. That means we're ordering tens of thousands of dollars (6 figures) of chips from an alibaba producer.
So if we weren't worried about replicas and copying molds (which again I personally don't care about), why aren't we going to someone other than Tina to drive the price down? Or has all the work we’ve done with her and what they created just not transferable?
The China Clays were pretty much not worth it for most people at .10 a chip. I can't imagine that long term these have staying power at .50. If they do, feels like someone would come in and undercut.
One real question, why are these .50 a piece. We're ordering well into tens and hundreds of thousands of chips. That means we're ordering tens of thousands of dollars (6 figures) of chips from an alibaba producer.
So if we weren't worried about replicas and copying molds (which again I personally don't care about), why aren't we going to someone other than Tina to drive the price down? Or has all the work we’ve done with her and what they created just not transferable?
The China Clays were pretty much not worth it for most people at .10 a chip. I can't imagine that long term these have staying power at .50. If they do, feels like someone would come in and undercut.
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They weren’t custom. That’s the hook here imo.
And their printer and colors (imo) are superior to brpro. Unfortunately.
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I have someone’s custom sample, and yeah they look/feel fantastic compared to other entry level stuff.
I just…would rather pay like .25 a chip for chips for my kids or a fun, jokey, or tribute set.
Interested to see where it all settles. If bulk orders upfront represent the majority of business so another Tina doesn’t come along, or if this is a pretty standard business and 100 Tina’s come along.
Either way, I’ll never do the footwork myself so Justin represents a value for me.
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