$1/2 NL Hand: From Villain's Perspective (1 Viewer)

[jbutler]

Actually I wasn't in the hand at all, so I guess the guy isn't technically the villain, but whatever.

Relevant background: cash game following cheap ($75 with $10 bounty and optional $25 add-on) tourney. Players are all over the place in terms of abilities. Truly some of the worst poker I've seen in months being played.

Weird stack sizes, though. Because of the uber-loose passive donkeys are sitting on shortstacks ($100 or less) and TAG-ier players are sitting on big stacks ($600+), position and stack-size awareness are absolutely crucial.

The two relevant players have no prior history and haven't played any significant pots with one another tonight. However, MP has been playing quite tight, not value betting middle two pair on river, raising maybe 2% of hands. BB has raised more frequently and pretty much played fit or fold on the flop, making a couple of thin correct calls on rivers. BB has $300ish and MP covers. Action goes:

BB picks up Kc2c in the blind. Straddle is on for $5. MP limps the $5 straddle as does CO and BB. Straddle checks.

Flop ($21): Ac7c2d

BB bets $15, straddle calls, MP calls, CO makes it $47. BB flats, Straddle folds, MP makes it $147.

BB action?

 

[bentax1978]

Does CO have BB covered as well?

 

[MoscowRadio]

BB isn't committed given his stack size here which is ~$230 and the pot is just over ~$300. He can't be drawing dead, but I would be considering Ks and 2s as dead outs. If BB calls the absolute worst he's up against is A2, but more likely a set held by MP. BB is getting bad odds (~36%) to chase his flush, but if he's going to do it, he should shove now as any club on the turn is going to kill his action.

In short: fold.

 

[jbutler]

Does CO have BB covered as well?

No. Apologies - super relevant and meant to mention in OP that CO moved all in for $47.

 

[MoscowRadio]

No. Apologies - super relevant and meant to mention in OP that CO moved all in for $47.

This is what I had thought since you mentioned super short stacks and moved over CO's action.

Hoping that the good doctor will chime in. Just once I'd love for one of my answers to be close to his.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

If MP really is playing as nitty as you say, it should be an easy fold. I might shove cause I like to get my money in bad and suck out on people though.

 

[Shaggy]

I think it is a pretty easy fold. I can't see MP doing this with total air... which is the only thing we beat. With just the flush outs, we are just 18% to hit on the turn. So need to get 4.5:1 or $450 on our $100 call. We only have ~$250 remaining. If we jam, as Moscow points out, we are 36% or 1.8:1, so we need to win $444 from our $250. There is $241 in pot right now, if MP calls our jam, we win $491... so that is a thin edge... but I have not included redraws to boats... assuming MP has a set. I'm still folding... unless there is a shred of justification that MP is doing this with a worse flush draw or air.

 

[courage]

BB isn't committed given his stack size here which is ~$230 and the pot is just over ~$300. He can't be drawing dead, but I would be considering Ks and 2s as dead outs. If BB calls the absolute worst he's up against is A2, but more likely a set held by MP. BB is getting bad odds (~36%) to chase his flush, but if he's going to do it, he should shove now as any club on the turn is going to kill his action.

In short: fold.

Yeah, pretty much agree with this. Sux, and BB is a small fav vs any pair but with this kind of heavy action from nutpeddlers, it's a FML fold.

 

[DrStrange]

Normally I get all gooey with the nut flush draw plus a pair - but in this hand it isn't good enough. Loose-passive jams all in followed by a check-reraise from a passive player. Hero has eight clean outs and then has to fade a redraw. This is fine for the main pot but for the ~$500 heads up pot Hero is often a 3-1 dog having put in even money.

In short, fold -=- DrStrange

 

[jbutler]

Agreed with the fold advocates. Was just curious if anyone had a different view.

Results before I leave the office: BB snap shoves and gets snapped called by MP. MP tables pocket 7s and CO tables pocket 2s. Turn Ks. River 8d. Ship to the 7s.

Was chatting with BB a bit later and he brought the hand up. I said the problem is that MP has at minimum A7 in that spot and so his two pair outs are gone which makes it a fold imo. He reluctantly agreed.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I think with equal stacks a call (or shove) is reasonable, as is a call or shove in this scenario with two lagtards like me in the hand.

 

[MoscowRadio]

I put MP on exactly 77, but I didn't think for a second that CO was as strong as a set as well. Kind of a strange line for MP to take (flatting then 3-betting the flop), but it got all the money in I suppose.

 

[jbutler]

I put MP on exactly 77, but I didn't think for a second that CO was as strong as a set as well. Kind of a strange line for MP to take (flatting then 3-betting the flop), but it got all the money in I suppose.

That's another thing this hand reinforces imo which is that 99.9% of the time someone backraises (i.e., flats a bet, but then 3-bets or 4-bets when someone behind him raises after his call) he is super, super, super strong.

 

[MoscowRadio]

That's another thing this hand reinforces imo which is that 99.9% of the time someone backraises (i.e., flats a bet, but then 3-bets or 4-bets when someone behind him raises after his call) he is super, super, super strong.

After thinking about it a bit, it was a pretty smart move on MP's part. If he knew that CO was spewy he was letting BB get committed and then shove giving MP the chance to 3-bet. I just couldn't stick it in with Kc2c in that spot. Like I said before: BB can't be drawing dead, but MP kind of played his hand face up in my opinion.

 

[jbutler]

After thinking about it a bit, it was a pretty smart move on MP's part. If he knew that CO was spewy he was letting BB get committed and then shove giving MP the chance to 3-bet. I just couldn't stick it in with Kc2c in that spot. Like I said before: BB can't be drawing dead, but MP kind of played his hand face up in my opinion.

Had nothing to do with CO being spewy. CO was strictly loose passive. Yeah he shoved in this instance, but he hadn't raised all night. MP was looking for a safe turn imo.

 

[DrStrange]

If MP flats the flop . . . .

He gets all of hero's money

DrStrange

 

[jbutler]

If MP flats the flop . . . .

He gets all of hero's money

Said the same thing to BB later on, that the money would have gone in on the turn regardless. At least then he had the king outs...

 

[MoscowRadio]

If MP flats the flop . . . .

He gets all of hero's money

DrStrange

But didn't BB shove the flop?