$1/2 PLO short handed early on (2 Viewers)

[Rhodeman77]

So nobody is worried he will fold AKQQ or some similar hand if we shove?

This seems like we should be waaaaaay ahead most of the time, but the times we are behind we are in bad shape to a set.

 

[Highli99]

So nobody is worried he will fold AKQQ or some similar hand if we shove?

This seems like we should be waaaaaay ahead most of the time, but the times we are behind we are in bad shape to a set.

That's why I suggested a min raise.

 

[BGinGA]

More shovel.

 

[Darson]

Since this thread is posted here, I vote fold because you probably lost the hand.

Seriously though I know nothing about PLO so I'll go back to my corner...

 

[Kain8]

So nobody is worried he will fold AKQQ or some similar hand if we shove?

This seems like we should be waaaaaay ahead most of the time, but the times we are behind we are in bad shape to a set.

If he folds, I'm elated to win a good sized pot. If he rolls over the two case kings in a 4-handed game, that's just a cold deck and you take your lumps.

 

[Rhodeman77]

That's why I suggested a min raise.

If we min raise and he shoves can we ever fold? I don’t think so, so is the raise to get him to shove to call off?

 

[Schmendr1ck]

More shovel.

 

[v1pe]

I think it is precisely because equities run close that we want to get money into the pot while we have the best hand. Preflop rockets are without question the best possible hand. Once the flop and turn come - who knows...

If stacks are deeper then it becomes "less good" to shovel chips in preflop with AA since the villain can hit a hand on the turn or river and put hero in a very awkward spot.

I am also just speculating since I don't know PLO well at all...

Okay, I went into an equity calculator and plugged in some hands and found that equities don't run quite as close as I thought initially.

Just trying to think of some other premium hands that we could be up against preflop (not saying V has these, just these are the best hands I could think of), we are 57/42 against specifically and 67/32 against something like . Better than I expected honestly. I guess double suited aces in PLO are just always an easy GII preflop decision at this stack depth?

 

[v1pe]

I would probably flat the flop bet. There aren't really any scare cards for us except for maybe a heart. Sets up an easy shove on the turn if we are checked to.

~170 into ~235 or so I believe.

 

[v1pe]

Can villain really call with a worse hand if we raise? I think we are only getting called by a sets of kings given the preflop action. I mean maybe he shows up with a random but there are very few combo draws that could call a raise.

 

[Esection]

Think you can just call flop and turn.

It’s a way ahead way behind situation. Let him bluff off his stack or pick up more equity on the turn. Keep his range wider by not raising flop.

 

[Highli99]

If we min raise and he shoves can we ever fold? I don’t think so, so is the raise to get him to shove to call off?

if she shoves, insta call. Yes, sort of a ploy for a player with a tendency to over play to shove.

 

[WedgeRock]

Hero is dealt and is first to act. What do we do?

Flat. A potbet UTG barely builds a pot at all, usually. More value in disguising your strength, IMO. Prepare to repot a raise, I think.

Button folds, TK (SB) makes it $20 (woohoo!!)

Nick folds and action is back to us.

Are we calling or raising? If raising, how much?

I guess I suck at PLO, but down to heads up, I flat here too. We have position and a $50 pot heads up PF is good with me. All we have is AA and some strong draws. Let's see if we hit the flop before going all crazy.

I think it is precisely because equities run close that we want to get money into the pot while we have the best hand. Preflop rockets are without question the best possible hand. Once the flop and turn come - who knows...

Exactly why I'd want to control the pot size. We already agree he's not folding to a 4-bet. Flatting pays smaller if we smash the flop, but it also means smaller losses if we whiff a flop in his wheelhouse.

Flop comes and TK bets $65.

With the flop bet pot is now $197

Action is on Hero now. Do we fold, call, raise? If we raise is it anything less than all-in?

Fuck I must suck at Omaha. I'd flat. If we're ahead, let him keep betting into us. There are few scare card turns. And if we're against a set, let's draw, keeping our losses as small as possible.

Make sure you look strong while calling, though. That is important. Don't fuck that part up.

 

[joker80]

I flat the flop. You are way ahead or way behind. If you pot it and he jams, are you really confident you are ahead?

 

[Rhodeman77]

For those calling for a flat of the flop bet, is there any turn card we fold too? Or are we calling no matter what comes?

If we are calling no matter what why not jam if we can take the pot now and deny his equity to a better 2 pair for a hand like KQJ10hh?

 

[WedgeRock]

is there any turn card we fold too? Or are we calling no matter what comes?

Maybe a K, maybe.

But if we flat the flop, he might bet the turn, bloating the pot. If we jam and take it down now, we miss that extra bet.

He is already seeing monsters under the bed with the 'hero always has it' comment.

 

[Jonesey07]

Pot. Go big or go home.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Maybe a K, maybe.

But if we flat the flop, he might bet the turn, bloating the pot. If we jam and take it down now, we miss that extra bet.

He is already seeing monsters under the bed with the 'hero always has it' comment.

We are not folding if a K comes on the turn, it would give us Kings full of 2’s

Any Q,J,10 especially if it is a heart is really ugly for our hand.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Maybe a K, maybe.

But if we flat the flop, he might bet the turn, bloating the pot. If we jam and take it down now, we miss that extra bet.

He is already seeing monsters under the bed with the 'hero always has it' comment.

Why do we fold if a K comes? At that point we have kings full of twos, and we are only behind K4. Villain sounds like he'd call a turn jam with a naked king.

 

[detroitdad]

pot

 

[Rhodeman77]

pot

Well thought out strategy post Bill! You really articulate the thought process well here.

 

[CraigT78]

Well thought out strategy post Bill! You really articulate the thought process well here.

He’s weak. He didn’t announce “pot, muthafucka”

 

[detroitdad]

Well thought out strategy post Bill! You really articulate the thought process well here.

Sorry, I'm in the church parking lot waiting to pick up my mother n law after the funeral service. Yes, I'm surfing pcf in the lot lol.

I believe your ahead, and I believe your opponent won't find until the river.... if at all

 

[Rhodeman77]

Sorry, I'm in the church parking lot waiting to pick up my mother n law after the funeral service. Yes, I'm surfing pcf in the lot lol.

I believe your ahead, and I believe your opponent won't find until the river.... if at all

At least you have your priorities in proper order!

 

[WedgeRock]

We are not folding if a K comes on the turn, it would give us Kings full of 2’s

Any Q,J,10 especially if it is a heart is really ugly for our hand.

Correct. We don't fear a K (duh). Yeah, a Q/J/T is not preferred, neither is a heart. Maybe a 9 is not good either.

Wait, who's seeing monsters under the bed now?

 

[v1pe]

For those calling for a flat of the flop bet, is there any turn card we fold too? Or are we calling no matter what comes?

If we are calling no matter what why not jam if we can take the pot now and deny his equity to a better 2 pair for a hand like KQJ10hh?

I'm not necessarily flatting because I'm planning to bet/fold. I think we flat because we are either way ahead or way behind. The only real bad cards are Q/J/T of hearts as you said. Plan for the turn would be to evaluate V's action on those cards and to probably shove if we are checked to, especially if we pick up backdoor equity. If we make a K or a 2, we might save our bet for the river.

Also, I can't think of a hand worse than ours that calls a shove, and we don't have any strong straight or flush outs as a backup.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I'm not necessarily flatting because I'm planning to bet/fold. I think we flat because we are either way ahead or way behind. The only real bad cards are Q/J/T of hearts as you said. Plan for the turn would be to evaluate V's action on those cards and to probably shove if we are checked to, especially if we pick up backdoor equity. If we make a K or a 2, we might save our bet for the river.

Also, I can't think of a hand worse than ours that calls a shove, and we don't have any strong straight or flush outs as a backup.

With $197 in the pot already, villain could easily call with just a king and any three other cards.

 

[v1pe]

With $197 in the pot already, villain could easily call with just a king and any three other cards.

You think so? I would certainly fold with a naked top pair type hand like AKQQ, KQJT, or AKQJ. Probably even if I was suited to the hearts or spades. Would those be bad folds?

 

[Rhodeman77]

You think so? I would certainly fold with a naked top pair type hand like AKQQ, KQJT, or AKQJ. Probably even if I was suited to the hearts or spades. Would those be bad folds?

AKQQ would not be a bad fold, KQJ10 would be. Having 9 live cards to make a better 2 pair or a wrap draw on the turn has a lot more equity

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Well, if villain gets repotted, it’s something like $170 to win about a $600 pot. If villain has a hand like KQT9hhss he has approximately 31% equity. if he has something like KhQh9c8d he has 33% equity (because his two pair outs aren’t now backdoor flush outs for you. To break even, he only needs like 28% equity at this point, so if he thinks you have aces and his kickers are live he should call.