2015 HOF Voting Thread (2 Viewers)

[Mr Tree]

I know I wonder if the pics on ct got eaten they were a lot better

A LOT of the pics on CT have gone missing. We had to get creative to find some of the pics we have

 

[Mr Tree]

Here's another for Duy's

 

[jbutler]

interesting - those must be secondary $1s and $100s. i prefer the primaries of both.

 

[Mr Tree]

 

[grandgnu]

If those Duy's Palace chips had a finger I'd put a ring on it

 

[Mojo1312]

Please remove

 

[warewulf]

If I had enough posts, I would vote for the Suicide King set.

 

[stocky]

Just wondering if the commitee settled on any type of criteria/restrictions for selecting sets and if you did is it going to be shared? Or will it be kept a secret?

 

[Mr Tree]

They had to be custom as defined by the committee. (Fairly lengthy definition I don't feel like re typing atm lol.) obviously at least one picture had to be available. Tributes had to have enough individual elements to be considered unique, something that was a close copy of another set would not be considered. Group buys were acceptable as long as they were originals.

 

[jbutler]

Just wondering if the commitee settled on any type of criteria/restrictions for selecting sets and if you did is it going to be shared? Or will it be kept a secret?

They had to be custom as defined by the committee. (Fairly lengthy definition I don't feel like re typing atm lol.) obviously at least one picture had to be available. Tributes had to have enough individual elements to be considered unique, something that was a close copy of another set would not be considered. Group buys were acceptable as long as they were originals.

it was not a high bar. basically any set that didn't use pre-ordained spot patterns (excluding several otherwise amazing semi-custom T-mold sets) or literally replicate the inlay design and name of an already existing set was considered custom.

 

[BGinGA]

Curious.... did the GCOP chips meet the committee's criteria for customs?

 

[Mr Tree]

Curious.... did the GCOP chips meet the committee's criteria for customs?

IMO no, as they are a faithful replication of the WSOP edge spotting with an inlay that recreated the same vibe with minimal departures in design.

Keep in mind this isn't a knock on these chips, but we were specifically looking for customs.

 

[Mr Tree]

Oh and we also had an addendum that no chips based on a Song of Ice and Fire be eligible either [emoji12]

 

[stocky]

Oh and we also had an addendum that no chips based on a Song of Ice and Fire be eligible either [emoji12]

Ofcourse. Wouldn't be fair to all the other sets.

 

[Jeff]

i agree with your definition of a legacy set and would say that the Old Orchard doesn't qualify. imo the "modern" options began when ASM started letting folks use the 3V pattern. as i said above, i think the Old Orchard gets a bit of a bump in the minds of some because it was one of the first to make use of modern patterns, but i think what handicaps it now is simply time. most folks are accustomed to thinking a lot about the current classic sets and the Old Orchard just doesn't appear on their radar as often so they're less likely to vote for it. not much we can do about that and i don't think the HoF should try to tell people what they should like.

that last sentiment is the one that keeps me from being totally on board with the idea of legacy admissions, though i'm definitely open to persuasion. if we were to look at legacy sets, the first ones that come to my mind are: C U Next Tuesday, Red Room (TRK), and Casino Antarctica. i'm sure there are some big ones i'm not remember, though, so i'd want someone with a really thorough historical knowledge of customs to give some guidance.

I'm not sure I understand the legacy definition and concept. Are you saying that any obsolete vendor can get a fast track into your process? The CU Next Tuesdays are BCC...there was always a superior color and spot pattern availability to these chips. The only barrier to designing them was the obscene costs and minimums (and the risk you would spend the money and get some F'd up chips.) TR Kings went away like nine years ago and also had a lot of color and spot flexibility. For some reason, the inlays always seemed a little amateur. Casino Antarctica might fit of you want to take into account handicapping for inferior choices...that was probably created when you could only get the one set of spots on ASMs. When I ordered my first ASM set, ASM used the Ford approach to choices. You could have any spot choice you wanted as long as you wanted the 3D14.

 

[jbutler]

I'm not sure I understand the legacy definition and concept. Are you saying that any obsolete vendor can get a fast track into your process? The CU Next Tuesdays are BCC...there was always a superior color and spot pattern availability to these chips. The only barrier to designing them was the obscene costs and minimums (and the risk you would spend the money and get some F'd up chips.) TR Kings went away like nine years ago and also had a lot of color and spot flexibility. For some reason, the inlays always seemed a little amateur. Casino Antarctica might fit of you want to take into account handicapping for inferior choices...that was probably created when you could only get the one set of spots on ASMs. When I ordered my first ASM set, ASM used the Ford approach to choices. You could have any spot choice you wanted as long as you wanted the 3D14.

yeah, those are fair points and i think i'm inclined to agree. this was part of the reason i personally felt the waters were too muddy to try to push in legacy sets.

 

[pltrgyst]

my top 3 :

- Silver Dust
- The Hitching Post
- Hungry Frog

Wow -- my three least favorite. Guess we won't be swapping any chip sets! :

 

[BGinGA]

IMO no, as they are a faithful replication of the WSOP edge spotting with an inlay that recreated the same vibe with minimal departures in design.

Keep in mind this isn't a knock on these chips, but we were specifically looking for customs.

618 spots vs 818 spots with the originals. just sayin'....

 

[Mr Tree]

618 spots vs 818 spots with the originals. just sayin'....

Damn there goes my whole argument [emoji33]

 

[Poker Zombie]

A note for future years:

The committee obviously discussed each set at length. Since the discussions took place via posts, it would be nice if each nominee had a paragraph or two written by the person that championed for the set. This could include things like Jbutler's explanation of the Old Orchard set, which would give it a better shot amongst newer chippers. Some may read it and say. "yea, so what", but I personally was swayed by that info (albeit too late because I voted already).

 

[bergs]

I think the idea of legacy sets are a valid one - you can't take the stats of a proverbial power hitter from 1912 and compare him to Barry Bonds. The game (both baseball and chip making) has changed considerably. I'd try to look at sets versus their contemporaries while defining two eras (sorta like the baseball dead ball and live ball eras)....JButler's guidance is probably a good one there as the introduction of that edgespot seemed to foretell alot of changes with color and edgespot choice availability.

 

[Poker Zombie]

While defining "Legacy" might be hard, simply putting text under a chip like the Old Orchard would mean a lot, even if it just meant something to the committee. Myself, I voted for the Redbelly set because it was a "legacy" set to me. There may have been level 6+ chips before that T25,000, but his was the first that I saw and said "you can color outside of the box". It changed how I look at spot patterns forever.

The chip factory was a stellar idea, but the factory did not have that spot pattern available. Redbelly made it up, and that took a creative mind just to imagine that. Then order it? Yes, the Redbelly T25,000 chip is the pillar that boosts this set to the next level (like level 8 I'm guessing) and I suspect we will see other spot patterns (good and bad) over the years because of this chip.

 

[bluegill]

Hard to pick just one. They are all great sets.

 

[atomiktoaster]

Hard to pick just one. They are all great sets.

...That's why you're allowed to pick ten?

 

[courage]

The chip factory was a stellar idea, but the factory did not have that spot pattern available. Redbelly made it up, and that took a creative mind just to imagine that. Then order it? Yes, the Redbelly T25,000 chip is the pillar that boosts this set to the next level (like level 8 I'm guessing) and I suspect we will see other spot patterns (good and bad) over the years because of this chip.

The Redbelly T25k is an awesome chip, using a BCC spot found in the chip factory, the same as on the Suicide King Club T1000. Kudos to Sean for getting CPC to produce it tho!

 

[jbutler]

I think the idea of legacy sets are a valid one - you can't take the stats of a proverbial power hitter from 1912 and compare him to Barry Bonds. The game (both baseball and chip making) has changed considerably. I'd try to look at sets versus their contemporaries while defining two eras (sorta like the baseball dead ball and live ball eras)....JButler's guidance is probably a good one there as the introduction of that edgespot seemed to foretell alot of changes with color and edgespot choice availability.

another of the reasons the committee didn't pursue legacy sets was that we felt we didn't collectively have sufficient knowledge of enough sets that predated wider edgespot availability. even when you break it down by edgespot availability, where to draw the line in availability isn't clear (after the 312 only era? when 3D14 was offered? when 614 was offered? when 3V was offered?). you could also consider mold availability, but that requires a similar analysis.

since consumer options offered by ASM were quite gradually expanded in the late 90s and through most of the 2000s, it gets pretty thorny pretty quickly. does a set get in because it was the first to use the 314/3D14/614/3V pattern? because it was the first to use the HH/HG/FDL mold? or do you focus exclusively on sets that were NOT able to use those options? as indicated by Poker Zombie's post above, some will consider perceived trailblazing sets appropriate for "legacy" inclusion.

as i said before, i would be all for reopening discussions on this point next year, but i think the umbrage taken by some in response to the (modest imo) amount of control/direction exerted by the committee in creating this first poll militates against unilateral action by the committee in inserting sets into the HoF based on what some might reasonably see as an arbitrary and capricious standard.

 

[Jeff]

While defining "Legacy" might be hard, simply putting text under a chip like the Old Orchard would mean a lot, even if it just meant something to the committee. Myself, I voted for the Redbelly set because it was a "legacy" set to me. There may have been level 6+ chips before that T25,000, but his was the first that I saw and said "you can color outside of the box". It changed how I look at spot patterns forever.

The chip factory was a stellar idea, but the factory did not have that spot pattern available. Redbelly made it up, and that took a creative mind just to imagine that. Then order it? Yes, the Redbelly T25,000 chip is the pillar that boosts this set to the next level (like level 8 I'm guessing) and I suspect we will see other spot patterns (good and bad) over the years because of this chip.

That spot has always been available via BCC and is in the chip factory under BCC. The Steel City Chips from years ago had a grey with blue and black version ($5000) of this spot that is one of the best ever. My scan of it doesn't do it justice. Seitz's Blue Ridge set also has a nice green version of this spot as well.

If if you go on my site, you can find the Steel City Chips under the custom sets.

http://jeffschips.weebly.com/custom-chips-page-2.html

- - - - - - - - - Updated - - - - - - - - -

Btw, that set was one of the first to have different inlays front and back. It also had primary and secondary.

 

[jbutler]

That spot has always been available via BCC and is in the chip factory under BCC. The Steel City Chips from years ago had a grey with blue and black version of this spot that is one of the best ever. My scan of it doesn't do it justice.

If if you go on my site, you can find the Steel City Chips under the custom sets.

http://jeffschips.weebly.com/custom-chips-page-2.html

that's one set that has been somehow - and very unjustifiably - forgotten in all these discussions. what a gorgeous chip. seeing a set like that makes you see why people took the gamble ordering from BCC.

reminds me of a poem from childhood (adapted for mike and family):

there was a man endy
who was quite offending
in the chip quality control department
when they were good
they were very very good
but when they were bad they were horrid

 

[Jeff]

That's why this selective approach to celebrating chips is so difficult. They are art. That Steel City chip was done some time ago, and the set had several innovations. Those innovations are now used more frequently. Several people have done primary/secondary chips. I have four inlays per denom on one of my sets. Several people, Abby's set is one I regularly play with, that has a white side and a black side.

I can't be precise as to first, but Bergs and I somehow were separately begging for the 312318a spot (I didn't "think up" the spot, I just liked it on the chip factory and lusted after it) and those were the first time ASM did them. If you were documenting and commemorating the story and perspectives behind these chips, instead of trying to pick the ten most deserving, you'd have much more useful information, imo.

 

[Jeff]

The Redbelly T25k is an awesome chip, using a BCC spot found in the chip factory, the same as on the Suicide King Club T1000. Kudos to Sean for getting CPC to produce it tho!

i didn't see this before I wrote the long post...another great example, and you're rigt about Sean getting CPC to do it.