600 chip limit set (3 Viewers)

It's getting rather childish in here.

You are welcome to your opinions @Old State, and you can play whatever games you like with whatever chips you like. No one is stopping you. But you are speaking out of ignorance with respect to how limit games are generally spread - and by generally, I mean that out of the literally more than 10,000 hours of live limit games I've played over the years at dozens of different casinos all across the western United States and a few other countries, I've never once seen a limit game where players bought in with any denom other than the workhorse chips. I personally never buy in for less than 2 racks. The only times I've even seen larger chips on the table in low stakes games is when a player gets paid out for a high hand with $100s or when players amass mountains of chips and they request to color up a few racks. In $30/60 and higher, some players will be allowed to have $100s/$500s, but even that isn't very common. In fact, every time I've seen a player move from another game who has bigger denom chips than what we're using, they are forced to color down (e.g., we are playing $8/16 with $2 chips and they move from NL with barrels of $5s, they are always forced to color down to $2s).

This "limit set" concept isn't something that a snobby group of chip collectors invented to bestow their chipping greatness upon the have nots, it's simply a reflection of how limit games are played.

I have no reason to think you're lying about your limit game in AC, but if what you say is true, I can promise you that it is an extreme outlier, and for good reason. Limit games were the only games running for a long time before NL became popular. Card rooms suffered when games didn't have enough action. One way to drive action is to make the pots look as big as you can. This is why $4/8 games are so common but $5/10 is almost never spread. $5/10 pots look tiny and players quit because they feel like there's no money to be won on the table, but drop the stakes to $4/8 and use $1 chips and all of a sudden the pots look huge. Players stick around and it drives more action. More chips = the pot looks bigger = more action = better games = more players = happy card room owners. Another reason, historically, that larger chips are often not allowed is because players could easily remove their winnings from the table if they colored up just by sneaking a $100 chip off of their stacks. This problem persists in NL as well of course, but historically this has been something that limit games have tried to prevent. But in NL, there's just not much you can do about it.

Anyhow, hate away all you want. But the fact is, this is just how limit games are almost always run. When we talk about "limit sets" we are referencing what it would would take to spread one of these games in the manner in which they are typically (>99% of the time) played. If I'm sitting at a limit game and there's only 1000 chips in the table, it's time to leave because the game sucks. Most games that I think are worth my time have at least 2000 chips on the table, and often much more than that.

So yes, I claim that a set isn't a "limit set" unless it has at least 1000 chips, and that's pretty generous IMO. Like I said, I'd want 2000+ personally. If you wish to spread a $2/4 game using a barrel of $1s and a stack of $5s for each player, have at it. You'll be making a lot of change, your pots will look small, and the game probably won't have much action. Just don't ask me to call your 600 chip set a "limit set". But that doesn't mean you can't spread the game however you'd like and still have fun.
I’ve been pretty clear on when and specifically where I played and why I build my original set the way I did. But I’ll clarify again. I don’t play limit anymore because I can’t get anyone else to and I haven’t seen many tables offered at the AC casinos I go to. A quick glance at the monitors usually shows a $2/4 or $3/6 game with three people waiting for a table to open. Also, when I played, the standard buy in at the casino was 40 big bets or even less so, even with only “workhorse” chips people weren’t sitting down with 2 racks. $80 dollars was all most bought in for a $3/6 game and I was always given at least $50 in reds, so just 40 chips. That’s how it was when and where I played. So it can and was done. Buyin for Limit poker is a different topic, but even many poker books suggested this. A quick google search also still turns up these recommendations.

I have no doubt in your experience either. And I’m thinking the poker boom has influenced a change at poker rooms. I’ve never played outside AC and a few times in Vegas (2004). The point I’ve always tried to make is that there is “need” and “want” and sometimes there is little separation in these discussions. There are often a lot of absolutes. A few seem to take any challenge to the consensus personally...and not just on this thread. I’m glad you don’t.

Also, let’s remember, the OP asked about 600 chips for 8 players....
 
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I don’t play limit anymore because I can’t get anyone else to and I haven’t seen many tables offered at the AC casinos I go to.
So the limit games that handed out chips by the racks are still alive and thrive. The limit games that handed out the bare minimum of chips have all died off.

Think about it.

Please.
 
So the limit games that handed out chips by the racks are still alive and thrive. The limit games that handed out the bare minimum of chips have all died off.

Think about it.

Please.
One thing happened in between. NL poker. I imagine this may be a response to try and save the game in some casinos. Now days I only usually make it to AC when I’m down the shore with my family and sneak out during the week. I’m not sure the last time I saw a week night limit game going at Borgata...which is a shame because I loved limit.
 
No-Limit happened in other locations too. Other locations that pitch limit with the correct number of chips still have a fixed limit game that people enjoy.

But maybe there is a chance that everyone else in the world is wrong and you are the only one that sees the truth. 3 barrels of chips probably clutters the Matrix.
 
Something else worth noting is that if you are seeing $2/4 limit being offered somewhere, that card room is in dire straights. Even 3/6 is a sign of desperation, but 2/4 means they can't otherwise put a game together. These are not healthy limit games.
 
No-Limit happened in other locations too. Other locations that pitch limit with the correct number of chips still have a fixed limit game that people enjoy.

But maybe there is a chance that everyone else in the world is wrong and you are the only one that sees the truth. 3 barrels of chips probably clutters the Matrix.
Obviously you are not interested in the actual intent of my posts. I don’t think I could be any clearer and I’m not interested in further clarification.

Something else worth noting is that if you are seeing $2/4 limit being offered somewhere, that card room is in dire straights. Even 3/6 is a sign of desperation, but 2/4 means they can't otherwise put a game together. These are not healthy limit games.
I’m talking about the top poker room in AC, Borgata. They are supposedly the most profitable poker room in AC.
Here is there current offerings. $2/4 is listed all always running. This is why I’m sometimes skeptical of some of the absolutes I’ve heard here.
https://www.pokeratlas.com/poker-room/borgata-atlantic-city/cash-games

Seems pretty common in Vegas as well
https://www.pokeratlas.com/poker-cash-games/las-vegas-nevada
 
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Something else worth noting is that if you are seeing $2/4 limit being offered somewhere, that card room is in dire straights. Even 3/6 is a sign of desperation, but 2/4 means they can't otherwise put a game together.

I am not 100% on this either. My local club still offers it, but they also have 3/6, 3/6 full kill, 8/16 half-kill and 20/40 regularly.

I do think that as rake presses upward, games like 2/4 are going to die out on their own. 2/4 was a regular game 10 years ago and how I started. Now it's still offered, but I think mostly out of custom than out of demand, it's hit or miss as to whether or not there is player interest on a given day.
 
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I am not 100% on this either. My local club still offers it, but they also have 3/6, 3/6 full kill, 8/16 half-kill and 20/40 regularly.

I do think that as rake presses upward, games like 2/4 are going to die out on their own. 2/4 was a regular game 10 years ago and how it started. Now it's still offered, but I think mostly out of custom than out of demand, it's hit or miss as to whether or not there is player interest on a given day.
I agree with this sentiment as well.

I think NLHE as a cash game has seen its peak, and will always be around, but casinos cant thrive on it alone anymore. I think that many of the big gambol NLHE guys have moved onto the circus games being offered now. Look at the games offered and being played in casinos now, 5-10 years ago it would have took an act of congress to get a stud going even you had ten guys ready to play, now I see stud games going in many places. Hell I just saw this morning that Ceasars in Vegas at least has a 4/8 game listed on the Bravo app, that was not there a few months ago I know (1500 of those $1's would look effing sweet on a table BTW). When I inquired about playing limit there a couple of years ago they may as well have said GTFO. Ballys now offers a 3/6 game and usually have 2-3 tables of it going on the weekend. A few years ago they seemed to be lucky to have 3 tables of anything going.

Of course most of this my opinion and speculation, but there is definitely a trend going on here and it seems to be moving away from NL games
 
I have never played limit live. Therefore, even though I think I might prefer racks n racks of workhorse chips (heavily influenced by the consensus in this forum, I must admit), I can't possibly know what I prefer yet.

A lot of local players I've spoken with thought they preferred playing with one deck, even after I explained the benefits of using two. After they tried, though, everyone (so far) have preferred two.

@Old State, I ask this with the utmost respect, I am not having a go at you: Have you actually tested playing limit with racks n racks of workhorse chips, or are you just deriving your preference from sitting at other type of games where there were too many chips?
 
Well you’ve just chucked a hand grenade into a room and walked away :LOL: :laugh:
Well...it seemed to be slowing down, someone had to do something :whistle: :whistling:

Joking aside, I have many times thought I knew what I preferred and discarded alternatives based on theoretical arguments, only to change my mind after actually trying it. And I'm not just talking about sex!
 
I have never played limit live. Therefore, even though I think I might prefer racks n racks of workhorse chips (heavily influenced by the consensus in this forum, I must admit), I can't possibly know what I prefer yet.

A lot of local players I've spoken with thought they preferred playing with one deck, even after I explained the benefits of using two. After they tried, though, everyone (so far) have preferred two.

@Old State, I ask this with the utmost respect, I am not having a go at you: Have you actually tested playing limit with racks n racks of workhorse chips, or are you just deriving your preference from sitting at other type of games where there were too many chips?
I haven’t played limit Hold’em since 2005 but played it monthly at Borgata (at least) and weekly at home from 2002-2005. When I was playing people were not buying in with massive stacks of one denomination and there was always red and whites on the table. Even if they did buying for one denomination the amount they bought in for wouldn’t amount to one rack. I think that is also a big part of this I didn’t consider. People seem to be buying in for way more than they used to...which to be honest I don’t get in limit.
Either way I generally dislike a lot of chips. I’ve hosted a lot of games and I always try to keep the pot tidy even when I’m not dealing or in the hand. I like to be able to see at a glance how much is in there. I also hate people fumbling with their chip stack for 30 seconds while we are trying to deal the next hand. I never had an issue with what we used nor did anyone I played with. As a matter of fact several of us bought similar ASM sets at the same time. We were all regulars at Borgata.
Large pots of single denominations annoy me at NL games so I don’t see how I would all the sudden prefer them for a limit game....But I can’t get anyone to play limit anyway so it’s a mute point
 
Large pots of single denominations annoy me at NL games so I don’t see how I would all the sudden prefer them for a limit game....

A lot of people who are pushing for large amounts of single denominations prefer to have few chips in tournaments, usually 12/12/5/6/X which, compared to their recommended starting stacks for limit, is extremely low. The same people recommend somewhat larger stacks for NL cash games, but still tiny stacks compared to their limit recommendations.

So it seems you are in agreement. The only difference is that for limit, they have tried something you haven't tried. I'm not saying you will change your mind, but you shouldn't rule it out.

I've tried neither, meaning that before I buy a set, I will definitively try both approaches using my old plastic chips. How else can I know?
 
A lot of people who are pushing for large amounts of single denominations prefer to have few chips in tournaments, usually 12/12/5/6/X which, compared to their recommended starting stacks for limit, is extremely low. The same people recommend somewhat larger stacks for NL cash games, but still tiny stacks compared to their limit recommendations.

So it seems you are in agreement. The only difference is that for limit, they have tried something you haven't tried. I'm not saying you will change your mind, but you shouldn't rule it out.

I've tried neither, meaning that before I buy a set, I will definitively try both approaches using my old plastic chips. How else can I know?
Side note: If the plastic chips are slippery, you may find a preference for fewer chips than you would if you are using clay chips.
 
A lot of people who are pushing for large amounts of single denominations prefer to have few chips in tournaments, usually 12/12/5/6/X which, compared to their recommended starting stacks for limit, is extremely low. The same people recommend somewhat larger stacks for NL cash games, but still tiny stacks compared to their limit recommendations.

So it seems you are in agreement. The only difference is that for limit, they have tried something you haven't tried. I'm not saying you will change your mind, but you shouldn't rule it out.

I've tried neither, meaning that before I buy a set, I will definitively try both approaches using my old plastic chips. How else can I know?
You could also they haven’t tried something I have. The physical amount of chips on the table has zero impact on me psychologically...which seems to be a main justification for their use by card rooms people report playing in. I’m always looking for chip colors not stack size to size up the table
 
At the risk of opening another can of worms... what’s everyone’s thoughts on playing kill / half kill games? Does it make the game better?

If you are playing 1/2 limit it is awesome. If you are playing 4/8 it is still cool, but you start getting into some big pots with potential of peeps losing more than they bargained for in a small game.
 
If you are playing 1/2 limit it is awesome. If you are playing 4/8 it is still cool, but you start getting into some big pots with potential of peeps losing more than they bargained for in a small game.
Deep stack it can be good.
 
At the risk of opening another can of worms... what’s everyone’s thoughts on playing kill / half kill games? Does it make the game better?

Yes, both types, in a casino and at home games. I guess it depends on what you mean by making the game better.

Given a choice, I prefer playing without a kill, but I won't avoid a game just because it has one. My thinking is, pick your stakes and go with it. The bouncing back and forth sometimes gets to me.
 
At the risk of opening another can of worms... what’s everyone’s thoughts on playing kill / half kill games? Does it make the game better?

Definitely a good thing you got moar chips :).

Given a choice, I prefer playing without a kill, but I won't avoid a game just because it has one. My thinking is, pick your stakes and go with it. The bouncing back and forth sometimes gets to me.

I tend to agree. Though I will admit the half kill at my local casino 8/16 game has been good for action.
 
Yes, both types, in a casino and at home games. I guess it depends on what you mean by making the game better.

Given a choice, I prefer playing without a kill, but I won't avoid a game just because it has one. My thinking is, pick your stakes and go with it. The bouncing back and forth sometimes gets to me.
I totally agree with this 100% if you want higher stakes then go higher stakes.

one thing I've never evaluated is whether it not it increases the rake for the casino, maybe someone else can chime in.
 
one thing I've never evaluated is whether it not it increases the rake for the casino, maybe someone else can chime in.

At low stakes with a high max rake it probably makes a huge difference, ad middle stakes where the rake usually caps, it probably doesn't matter as much.

That said there are a few extra seconds involved in kill hands to ensure the right blinds are posted and to correct bets from players not aware of what is happening.

But if it makes the game interesting for a certain type of player and keeps them playing longer, it's surely good for the rake that way.
 

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