Angle shooting (1 Viewer)

[bergs]

Pretty sure if I was the 88 player, this would put me on life tilt.

Well, it didn't work, but he was cookin'....part of me wanted to see something foul just to see what unfolded. Coulda been really interesting.

 

[fish72s]

Hiding chips - angle shoot?

So there is this guy we play with sometimes. He is a bit odd regardless of how you look at it. Our game is friendly and everyone else that has played with us knows how to bet, etc. When this guy gets a good run, he tries as fast as he can to buy guys in with his chips or color people down. Then tries to hide big chips and or put money in his pocket (my game dammit, I got the bank, I'll handle all that) Opposing players should always ask for a count if it is a big hand and you want to know what someone has behind, right? He has burned a player before that thought they had him covered when out comes a few black chips from the back of his stack. Last time I had two hands against him and I asked for a count. I told him again that he needed to stack his chips so other players could easily see them including all denoms. We like big out front. No cash on the table unless we don't have enough chips (now that is just funny, not enough chips at my game...). He did it again last week & I knew he was doing it. Finally got a chance to put a hurtin' on him. I've got 9,10off. Flop comes 6,7,8 rainbow I lead out with a medium bet of 25 and he groans a bit mumbling that he is getting short stacked...hmmmm.."ok I'll call." Turn is a brick. We both check. River come a brick and I lead with 50. He smiles and from behind the stack he pulls out a black chip and raises 100. I said "Where did that come from? A few others were quiet sensing that this could escalate. He did nothing and I thought about it a few minutes and shoved. He snap calls, I table the nutz and say ala Sam Grizzle. "Keep those big chips out front where I can see 'em." Don't know what he had, don't care! He isn't banned but he only gets an invite if we have a few seats and need another donkey.

If there isn't a clear rule about placing big chips up front, then I would definitely say that hiding chips is a classic example of angle shooting.
If there is a rule, then it gets elevated to cheating.

Some angle shoots I've seen:

1) Home game table with no betting line. In a growing pot and facing a large bet angle shooter grabs a handful of chips, and starts cutting out chips in front of his cards for what looks like will be a call. He then gauges the reaction of the bettor and decides to fold.

2) (while not as big of an angle, still annoying IMO) Again in a home game with (at the time) no clearly defined rules, angle shooter always tried to get the other person to show cards when they are heads up and there is no action left, regardless if he was the last aggressor or his position on the table. This angle shooter would change his argument on who should show based on the situation (he never ever wants to show, even if the winning hand has been indicated). The person who runs our home had to actually draft his home rules because of this guy.

3) Pot is 3 way. Villain 1 puts out a bet on the river, Villain 3 folds out of turn (purposely IMO, he has done this more than once and is an experienced player), hopefully encouraging V2 to call. This had occurred at least a half-dozen times since I've played with V3, so I'm pretty sure it's not a coincidence.

1) With no betting line, (or done behind the line), I think this is another angle shoot. More often though what I see it someone counting out raising chips; adding more and more chips to the raise to try to get a reaction.

3) Not an angle per se, but obviously cheating/collusion if done on purpose.



Here's one that I wouldn't necessarily call an angle but perhaps others disagree?
What about a player that intentionally gives off reverse tell?
The way I look at it is that if someone is going to make their decision based off of a physical tell, then giving a false tell is free game.

 

[phaze12]

some times this one was an honest mistake other times is was blatant.

when c notes play at a table, the person puts them behind or under their stack of chips, covered completely. when you make bets according to what you think is the size of their stack and then realize they have 3 or 4 hundred more, it can put a kink jnto your plan.

im glad most casinos dont alow this a lot anymore.

i think it was implimented as added security against of someone trying to pass a phony c note.

 

[jbutler]

Some angle shoots I've seen:

1) Home game table with no betting line. In a growing pot and facing a large bet angle shooter grabs a handful of chips, and starts cutting out chips in front of his cards for what looks like will be a call. He then gauges the reaction of the bettor and decides to fold.

2) (while not as big of an angle, still annoying IMO) Again in a home game with (at the time) no clearly defined rules, angle shooter always tried to get the other person to show cards when they are heads up and there is no action left, regardless if he was the last aggressor or his position on the table. This angle shooter would change his argument on who should show based on the situation (he never ever wants to show, even if the winning hand has been indicated). The person who runs our home had to actually draft his home rules because of this guy.

3) Pot is 3 way. Villain 1 puts out a bet on the river, Villain 3 folds out of turn (purposely IMO, he has done this more than once and is an experienced player), hopefully encouraging V2 to call. This had occurred at least a half-dozen times since I've played with V3, so I'm pretty sure it's not a coincidence.

late in responding, but neither 1 nor 2 are angles imo. 3 would put me on watchtower alert for the reasons berg discussed.

 

[QuiQuog]

1) With no betting line, (or done behind the line), I think this is another angle shoot. More often though what I see it someone counting out raising chips; adding more and more chips to the raise to try to get a reaction.

I wouldn't call that an angle shoot any more than asking the player "what if I raise?" to gauge their reaction.

Here's one that I wouldn't necessarily call an angle but perhaps others disagree?
What about a player that intentionally gives off reverse tell?
The way I look at it is that if someone is going to make their decision based off of a physical tell, then giving a false tell is free game.

I don't know how anyone might consider this an angle either, any more than re-raising when drawing dead. They're both just misrepresenting your hand. I watched a pro on TV drawing dead against another player. He made his hands tremble slightly when re-raising and scared the other player off the pot. I couldn't figure out if he wanted the other guy to think he was strong, or to think he wanted him to think he was. He fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is, never get involved in a land war in Asia!

 

[12thMan]

I wouldn't call that an angle shoot any more than asking the player "what if I raise?" to gauge their reaction.



I don't know how anyone might consider this an angle either, any more than re-raising when drawing dead. They're both just misrepresenting your hand. I watched a pro on TV drawing dead against another player. He made his hands tremble slightly when re-raising and scared the other player off the pot. I couldn't figure out if he wanted the other guy to think he was strong, or to think he wanted him to think he was. He fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is, never get involved in a land war in Asia!

I do not mean to pry, but you don't by chance happen to have six fingers on your right hand?

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

You sure he wasn't drawing mostly dead?